making the move from emperor to immortal, help

[blindsquirrel]

so emperor isn't as much of a challenge at this point, but the first 10 or so games ive played on immortal have been seemingly impossible.

i typically play with the following settings

* civ v, not gods/kings
* standard speed
* small or standard map
* no city states (no diplo victory condition)
* america is my go to civ, sometimes china or babylon

where i struggle is the nearly automatic DoW in the first 30 turns, and sometimes by turn 50 i have two DoWs already. its nearly impossible for me to build up my first two cities because i'm under constant barrage from turn 30 onward. i've started to see a few small improvements, and i'm making it to mid-game in decent shape, but by that time one or two civs have spammed the entire map and i can't make up any ground.

i generally only play to win domination games, as i've won a cultural game on diety before, and warmongering is just fun, especially with stealth bombers and modern armor.

i generally try to grab the great library (by chopping and going all out on production) then i dial back and try to grow my population and hit minutemen and then cannons to artillery. but if there is a better way, or something i can do to both maintain my defense and also grow i'd love to hear it.

 

[Agent Cooper]

The best advice I can give is to settle on hills and build archers. That should be enough to fend off the AI civs on Immortal. At some point, they usually back off and retreat when it becomes obvious that they won't take the city. You can also prioritize the Tradition SP that give cities a defensive bonus (the name escapes me right now).

City walls are great as well, but I wouldn't normally build them, but instead have the gold or luxuries to trade away immediatly and buy them, if needed. You might not know in advance which city the AI is most likely to attack and building city walls everywhere, is overkill and a waste of early pivotal production.

 

[The Pilgrim]

i generally try to grab the great library (by chopping and going all out on production)

This - don't.
Go Liberty, spam warriors and upgrade them to swords asap. Finish Liberty, take GS and bulb Steel. Upgrade to LS. You can achieve this by mid-80's. For China/Babylon spam archers instead of warriors, bulb Machinery and upgrade to crossbows and especially CKN's.

 

[ahawk]

In vanilla, my preferrence was often for the Aztecs...

you get a reasonable, though not phenomenal, UU right away to use,
your UA rewards you with culture during those inevitable wars with the AI that occur when playing Immortal,
your UB can really help your cities grow even without quite as many tiles improved as usual

On Immortal, where you'll get attacked early very often, that's a nice starting situation. The culture adds up and helps you pick up SP's faster, and you can use that boost to go through Honor quicker and get military benefits to help defend yourself.

 

[Putmalk]

I always thought Tradition was so much better than Honor for the Aztecs. Massive growth bonuses gives you a bunch of metropolises that the AI can't take even if they tried to.

 

[ahawk]

I always thought Tradition was so much better than Honor for the Aztecs. Massive growth bonuses gives you a bunch of metropolises that the AI can't take even if they tried to.

Tradition is a better choice in some situations, Honor in others. It all depends how soon I think I'm going to get attacked. If I think I have some time, I go Tradition. Otherwise, the +50% experience boost and other boosts from Honor really help me to survive and grow an army capable of repelling even more attacks that Immortal usually brings down the line.

That said, if I go Honor first to survive, I'll usually back-track and take Tradition as well. Because you're right: the massive growth is going to be important as the game progresses.

But on Immortal and up, it's sometimes a good idea to take Honor first in a tight spot, especially because going Honor will let me build Jaguars quicker (with the +15% melee production). And building Jaguars quicker is good both because I need the units in the present, as well as because I can upgrade surviving Jaguars and retain the bonus promotions they get, especially the one that allows them to heal after killing an enemy.

 

[Leo Tang]

I would vote for Honor too. Afterall, you can get a general after your openner. In dire situation, use your general to build citadel and watch your enemy getting pwned.

 

[stii]

How do you win a cultural victory on deity but struggle with immortal? I thought cultural was the hardest victory type?

 

[Terakahn]

it's possible Cultural is much easier for him to do. And he's attempting domination now, which I would be willing to bet he can't do on Deity.

 

[blindsquirrel]

How do you win a cultural victory on deity but struggle with immortal? I thought cultural was the hardest victory type?

occ, polynesia, large archipeligo map

 

[Pook]

I agree with The Pilgrim- don't try for Great Library, it's usually too hard on Immortal even if you beeline it.

Another thought- turn on "raging barbarians"- this will hurt the AI civs far more than you. The AI has a hard time coping with lots of hostiles wandering through open ground. I usually open the Honor policy tree with my second policy choice, and then go on a barbarian killing spree ("The neighborhood's pretty dead at night, and I'm the one to blame"- Lordi).

Don't eliminate a barbarian encampment unless a City State will reward you for it- just leave the encampment there and harvest the culture points.

 

[Mesix]

On Immortal and Deity, the early DOW can be a blessing rather than a curse. The AI gets so much free that they give unbelievable deals for negotiated peace after you defeat them on the field of battle. Like others have said, concentrate on building more units (especially Archers) early in the game. Get Walls up in your border city if you are expecting a DOW (you can also buy walls after they declare if you have available). When the DOW comes, don't settle for just sniping the units that roll into your territory. Continue to crank out more units and counterattack taking one or more AI cities.

When the AI comes to you begging for peace, you can use the from the peace deal to buy all the infrastructure in want for your cities. You can also upgrade your units and continue to steamroll if you want. Probably you want to do a little of both.

 

[Civsassin]

- Skip the early wonders UNLESS you have marble nearby, and you can go the Tradition path, taking the wonder bonus policy early. Even then consider it carefully
- Focus on production and science in that order
- Get a couple of cities up and running as soon as possible (I don't usually wait to get the National College early). Sometimes you can even cripple an AI by blocking its expansion.
- I like Tradition a lot on Immortal because of the growth bonus (population = science). Additionally, you get a gold bonus and stronger city ranged attacks with Oligarchy and the other policy that gives you gold for population in your capital
- I try to build a viable economy early, so I can get some CSs in my stable. Additionally, I am a fan of Patronism. The bonuses you get from CSs can offset the tremendous bonuses the AI gets. A CS in a strategic location can be an excellent buffer between you and your enemy, helping you to defeat its forces before they even reach you
- I play G&K, but this is my generic Immortal strategy

Good luck

 

[InDubioProReo]

I am also having a lot of trouble with this. Mainly I am having trouble founding a religion fast, and keeping up the expanding. I usually like going for a renaissance style muskeeter+cannon push and I like to prepare up to that point with 4-5 cities rocking out lots of science and production. I won a lot of games with this on Vanilla, but having issue on G&K, I can't really found a religion sometimes or I get eclipsed on technology. Is the research agreements the way to go like the Vanilla? I heard it's also possible to do without them.

I played one game where I consistently signed research agreements and was doing fine on science, but found out later on that Spain eclipsed me so I just left the game...

 

[Terakahn]

Falling behind on tech isn't the end of the world. But I'm interested to know what tactics people use to deal with it. Aside from the "Get Dynamite and crush them" strategy.

Since rushing for GL is worthless, and I find liberty to be a little lackluster unless its a specifically wide strength civ, would you beeline Philosophy and rush for NC instead?

 

[smallfish]

Falling behind on tech isn't the end of the world. But I'm interested to know what tactics people use to deal with it. Aside from the "Get Dynamite and crush them" strategy.

A large fleet of +1 Frigates plus Sea Beggars (privateers with supply promotions - easy to make even when not playing Dutchland) and maybe some ironclad meatshields can net you a Modern city. Beyond that, it'll be tougher, but if you get yourself a few illegal Battleships and buy oil from a friendly civ, its probable to keep your fleet going on a rampage.

Other than that, as MadDjinn sang, "Bombers bombers Bombers". Yeah, just watch out for AIs in late Atomic or Info eras - they love to bunch up their SAMs and put up intercept Fighters, so much so that you can lose your precious Double Attack Bombers even after airsweep.

An Info AI is kinda tough to take down if you are below Atomic era, especially when they get to...

Spoiler :

At that point I'll just tell you to go rush for atomic bombs and Advanced Ballistics, because that number of Tomahawks will eventually increase beyond 27.

 

[smallfish]

They will not hesitate to nuke you. Watch out for them.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

And if you have nukes, you want to make sure that you can survive the retaliation and hit them back really hard

Don't end up like Snake Gandhi here

Spoiler :

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Spoiler :

 

[maak]

I am not a civ master by any means but I have made move to immortal recently with America and I noticed from first couple attempts that map type made a huge difference for me. Having Alex the last 3 of 4 attempts I learned to stop building whatever and crank out archers and 2 melee units cause he is going to Dow you. An detective to counter this ,and it could cheating I suppose, is to move your units closer to his city he gets mad about it moves his units to your city Dow you then about 4-5 turns later you own his capital. I haven't won on immortal yet cause I always fall behind in techs. Min. 10-15% so this time I'vesomewhat Beelined education and that has kept me within 8-10% of the lead tech. I think with Washington you probably need to spam cities like a mad man and I haven't found the right number yet cause my tech is always low cause my pop is always low and what I do know is 4_5 cities is not spamming like a mad man. I play marathon continents small. Hope this wordy post helps and sorry if it doesn't.

 

[maak]

I am not a civ master by any means but I have made move to immortal recently with America and I noticed from first couple attempts that map type made a huge difference for me. Having Alex the last 3 of 4 attempts I learned to stop building whatever and crank out archers and 2 melee units cause he is going to Dow you. An detective to counter this ,and it could cheating I suppose, is to move your units closer to his city he gets mad about it moves his units to your city Dow you then about 4-5 turns later you own his capital. I haven't won on immortal yet cause I always fall behind in techs. Min. 10-15% so this time I'vesomewhat Beelined education and that has kept me within 8-10% of the lead tech. I think with Washington you probably need to spam cities like a mad man and I haven't found the right number yet cause my tech is always low cause my pop is always low and what I do know is 4_5 cities is not spamming like a mad man. I play marathon continents small. Hope this wordy post helps and sorry if it doesn't.