Mali on Earth18 - Start

Harv

Emperor
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Dec 16, 2008
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In the past few weeks, there were some threads asking about how to play the Mali on Earth 18. Here is a stab at the very start.

(Granted, I do prefer early game to end game - and play until either I realize that I could have started better - or I get to a point where turns take a lot of computer time and it has been decided for a while.)

Level: Monarch
Speed: Normal
Raging Barbarians
Choose Religions
RNG Exploit, Plenty of Autosaves, Plenty of Reloads, Unlimited Ammuntion :sniper:

What is interesting about playing Mali is that the start is isolated, but Mansa Musa has access to 14 of his 17 opponents. He has plenty of room to expand with very little competition, but the land's wealth is limited. Africa seems to have a lot of mineral resources, but very little food resources.

I chose to build the capital 3E, 2S (Credit to BakingTheArt and his earlier discussion) because it gives access to Cows, Elephants, and Gems as well as four Floodplains Tiles. The :yuck: factor is 2, cancelling the effect of fresh water, but this goes down to 1 when the jungle is cleared.

Settling 1W is still tempting just because at the Turn 50 border pop, I have lit up the entire SW corner of Africa and there are only two directions left the Barbarians can come from.

Note, Spoilers are used only to make the post shorter. Coordinates are expressed as E,N) from the Capital.

For exploration and huts, with some luck and RNG Exploits, I got the following:

Spoiler :
Turn 6 - Scout from Tribal Village (5,-2)
Turn 11 - 32g from Tribal Village (13,-7)
Turn 15 - 69g from Tribal Village (10,-9)
Turn 16 - 52g from Tribal Village (14,-1)
Turn 25 - 41g from Tribal Village (1,10)
Turn 25 - 56g from Tribal Village (10,-16)

Total prizes: 250g and a Scout
This is probably equal to getting three techs, but the effect is spread out over many turns, so it is not as gamebreaking as getting three early free techs.


Research was as follows:

Spoiler :
Turn 11 - Agriculture
Turn 16 - Hunting (needed for Elephants)
Turn 26 - Animal Husbandry (needed for Cows)
Turn 33 - Archery (needed for Skirmishers)
Turn 38 - Fishing (eventually needed for Crabs)
Turn 45 - Pottery (needed for Cottages)
Turn 55 - Bronze Working
Turn 65 - Iron Working (needed for Jungle/Gems)
Turn 69 - Writing
Turn 73 - Sailing

EDIT: Removed Mysticism/Masonry/Mathematics
Plan is to have Alphabet on Turn 81


Builds were as follows:

Spoiler :
Turn 1 - Nigeria founded - Location defined as (0,0)
Turn 16 - Warrior in Nigeria
Turn 28 - Worker in Nigeria (in time for Animal Husbandry)
Turn 35 - Warrior in Nigeria
Turn 40 - Skirmisher in Nigeria
Turn 46 - Worker in Nigeria
Turn 56 - Settler in Nigeria
Turn 57 - Mali founded (-4,2) to use the rest of the flood plains
Turn 61 - Skirmisher in Nigeria
Turn 65 - Skirmisher in Nigeria
EDIT: Added another Skirmisher in Nigeria for Turn 68

Four Skirmishers are still marginal, but more doable than three. The settler will found a city on the Ivory Coast.


My first priority was to get an economy started. This meant cottaging the flood plains. The settler will build a city on the Ivory Coast and go immediately to work on the Crabs.

My goals going forward are:
1. Defense - Getting the Skirmisher machine going
2. Expansion - Next targets are Carthage and Morocco while they are still available.
3. Fogbusting - I should fogbust the Sahara Desert and then the Barbarians should only be coming from the jungle.

Mali needs some :culture:

Interesting developments:
1. Spain did *not* get Christianity.
2. Egypt built the Great Wall.

Here are some screenshots and a couple of saves.

Thoughts? Is this start on the right track? When I meet the goals above, should I peacefully expand into the Jungles of Central Africa, or should I attack? Should my first victim be Egypt or Spain?
 

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why you waste time and resources for it instead of making settler and claiming more resources. The city in North cloud have brought sheep [+1health], second [or third] jumbos which could you trade for fish right now [+2health] and iron [goodbye Egypt].

Even your second city could have been southwards bringing crabs in. You even could have done most of ivory camp instead chopping jungle [camps allow jungle/forest to be on tile] which you could have traded away...

the way you improved cap it will be at 8 pop best. So you need get +5 healthiness to not have smokes on Nigeria. sheep+crabs+fish in trade gives 3. drop granary and get wheat in trade or settling northern coast [since Isabella missed her religions it is doable].

Why you need aqueduct?
 
@Soirana - You are right. The aqueduct is not essential this early. I can found three cities and gain access to 2 Crabs, 1 extra Ivory, 1 Wheat, 2 Sheep, and Marble to boot. Therefore I can have full health in Nigeria without building *any* buildings and therefore, I should be focusing on building Skirmishers and Settlers and claiming Africa.

So you are saying I can improve my opening as follows:

Regarding Research - Going back to Turn 73, I could have skipped Mysticism and Masonry and beeline somewhere else, like Construction? I think everything else I reserached was timely and essential.

Regarding Production - Going back to Turn 65, I really needed to build more Skirmishers before starting the Settler - I wanted to see how the Settler would play out first. I think it is playable, but the two of the three Skirmishers I have built have 10exp already and the other one has 8. This is a sign that I have not built enough.

Regarding City Placement - The first Settler was produced on Turn 56. I chose the location I did because it claims all the rest of the Flood Plains and it does not take that long to grow and contribute to :science:. Would I have been better off to claim the Crabs instead?

EDIT: One more question - How should I be promoting the Skirmishers? Should I be going down the Drill line or the Combat line? Should I take some Shock?
 
Given this a go and its an interesting game with raging barbs , imho much tougher than Neal's current immortal game.

I cocked up two starts before trying something different and headed north to Morocco (eles,wine, wheat). Got out a second city in Algeria (more sheep, marble and fish) and more by luck than judgement got Gwall in 1300bc. Now up to 975bc. Tech rate is slow at the moment but I should be able to expand fairly safely and claim the Mali floodplains.

Elepults vs Egypt (and Arabia?) then claim Africa is one way to go.
 
In response to the research criticism, I reloaded at Turn 64 and made the following changes:

1. At turn 65, I added one more Skirmisher before the Settler. The Settler will be completed on Turn 79 instead of 76.

2. At turn 73, I started to research the Alphabet instead of Mysticism and Masonry. With so many rivals in contact, I should be able to backfill a lot of this stuff I have been neglecting. It looks like I will have the Alphabet on Turn 81.

Here is the save at Turn 75 and a screenshot.
 

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Always nice to get some credit.

I can't say I really like your start, but I haven't won a game with Mali yet, so I can't talk. I'll report my game once I finish it. Sometime within the month. >_<
 
I just played a game as egypt yesterday, and when my pair of exploring war chariots found out that each of Mali's cities was defended by a lone warrior I turned it into a "mesopotamic" (ie between the two rivers) empire.

I have to say that Africa really sucks as a continent. You get very good research from the floodplains, but there is such a strict separation of production and food that it is very difficult to get decent production anywhere before biology or decent workshops.

Maybe the way to go is to research to caste and casting asap and start workshopping some floodplains and/or congo basin jungle grassland while teching the other workshop enhancers? As far as I can see, anything east and south of the Congo is miserable plains and hills, fantastic production if only there would be at least a single food source around.... Keep one cottage city each on both floodplains, and turn africa into the workshop of the world! :-)
 
Let's see, Monarch/Normal...

Turn 3: Found Timbuktu 4SE of the start position.

Spoiler :
turn3.jpg
Turn 7: Warrior
Turn 10: Hunting
Turn 11: Warrior
Turn 23: Worker
Turn 23: Animal Husbandry

Move the three warriors into the corners of Thebes' border and wait. Avoid fighting animals.

Spoiler :
turn21.jpg
Turn 21: An Egyptian worker appears on the wheat. Declare war and capture him.
Turn 22: Move your warriors across the river to N and S of Thebes.
Turn 23: Kill the 1 warrior defending Thebes.

Spoiler :
turn23.jpg
The rest is left as an exercise for the reader.
 
Honestly, Timbuktu is in a horrible position IMO.
1) One tile off coast.
2) surrounded by jungle.
3) Full of plains.

Also, the whole Warrior-rush-nearest-Civ simply takes advantage of the flaws in scenario set-up, which is why most players will add the Archery tech and archers to each civ if they begin above Prince.
 
@DaveMcW. I tried your opening. Hats founded a religion, borders popped T20. Missed the worker on the wheat. My 3 warriors met 3 warriors in Thebes with 40% culture defence. The rest is left as an exercise for the reader.

edit: 2nd try. Hats didn't get religion. 2warriors defending. Lost 4%. lost 4%, lost 67%.
3rd try. Religion again. 3 warriors in Thebes. Lost 1%, lost 1%, lost 1%.

edit#2. Tried without raging barbs. Hats' warriors went out exploring, no religion,one warrior in Thebes. Went exactly as DaveMcW's opening.
 
Last edited:
I thought I should post a screenshot and a save and invite some comments, criticism and advice. When I left off, it was Turn 75, or 1000BC and now it is Turn 135, or 500AD. I will add more detail (and micro) to it sometime tomorrow.


Research:

Spoiler :
Turn 81 - Alphabet (This enables Tech Trading - Let the games begin!)
Turn 87 - Mathematics (Allows construction and reduces cost for Currency)
Turn 94 - Currency (I wanted the extra trade route.)
Turn 100 - Contstruction (I wanted to eventually build some elephants)
Turn 104 - Horseback Riding (same as above)
Turn 112 - Metal Casting (allows Mint and Machinery)
Turn 120 - Machinery (I wanted to start building Windmills for those Plains Hills)
Turn 123 - Aethstetics (beeline Music)
Turn 124 - Literature (as above
Turn 132 - Music (Great Artist and Golden Age)


Tech Trades:

Spoiler :
Turn 81 - Mining and Sailing to Louie for Mysticism and Masonry
Turn 82 - Bronze Working to Louie for Polythiesm and Writing to Hattie for Meditation
TUrn 84 - Meditation to Louie for Priesthood
Turn 94 - Writing and Mining to Izzy for Monothiesm and 20g
Turn 105 - Mathematics, Sailing, and 35g to Izzy for Monarchy


Cities:

Spoiler :
Turn 80 - Ivory Coast
Turn 99 - Morocco
Turn 104 - Carthage
Turn 131 - Cameroun


Here is where I can start to lose my focus because I tend to be more of a game starter than finisher. I am planning to make a run at the Great Library in Carthage - I plan to make that city the Great Scientist farm.

Also, it looks like I need to finally expand into the Jungles of Africa. This is the part that just takes a while. I should probably just build Settlers and a chain of cities down to Ulundi - and then start :mischief: when all the good expansion is done.
 

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Okay, i did run quick opening since... Well, some time ago i played Mali opening over thirty times trying figure out best stategy and still don't know it...

Notes:
Spoiler :
Turn1 - Timbuktu at 2SE1E location, start worker, agriculture
T6- scout form eastern hut. That was sort of decision time as i have tow priorities to found AI's to get tech discount and get huts in Africa. Decided to sent scout towards huts eventually
t11-scout pops hut on gems for gold, Agri done, start AH
t15-warrior mets Alex
T16-worker done, start warrior, worker farms FP, scout pops hut in Zara's corner for gold.
t17-Scout found Sal founder of islam [the only religion so far]
t23-scout pops anothe hunt in Central Africa, warrior pops hut on sheep in N. Africa
Warior pops another warrior, I met Julius and Izzy. Scout poips scout. Heal original while new one spurts to last African hut.
t24- AH done Worker starts pasturing cows, start Hunting>archery due to fear of raging barbs
t27-finish cows just one turn before unhealthiness, scout pops last hut for gold, warriors in north move to fogbust positions.
t28-growth to size three, warrior done, move it on cows and fortify. Start worker. Initial worker moves to farm another FP. I'd like to make settler but without fishing djenne is useless.
t30-Hunting start Arhery
t34-Worker done start Setrler, second one does some roadwork
t37-archery start fishing
t41-loose one of scouts to double panther. May be i was paranoid about barbs
t42-fishing. Puzzle between BW and pottery. Go for BW, well i am on slight positive food and have no hills to transform it into something.
t44-settler- start skirnisher. Settler goes to 3SW position
t45- Stonehenge in distal land, Djenne founded. Workers make camp on second ivory... Djenne start fishing boat.
Well here are two aproaches - either use jungled ivory or clams and whip. Later gives more commerce, while former is slightly faster.
I finally start burning hut gold.
t47-skirmisher in cap, start another.
t49-first smog in Timbuktu.
t51-another skirmisher, start settler
t53-BW--- start Pottery
t54-boat in Djenne, make crabs, start skirmisher in where
t55-switch Cap to skirmisher due to barb activity.
t58-pottery, start some cottaging, start IW. Well, that is another breakpoint in terms of peacefull expansion gearing for rush on Egypt...
t59-Timbuktu to size 5 another unhealthines...
t63-Settler in cap start granary
t64-revolt to slavery, whip granary in cap, djenne done with skirmisher, start granary
t65-Kumbi Saleh founded [sheep/iron/phants/place], put whip overflow into worker
t70-Iw in start Mysticism[border pops, Djenne hits unhealthiness
t72-hook up iron
t73-Mysticism done start Writing
t75--saved.


Save bellow. Will play next segmenty in spare time. Basically i am torn from starting rush and making extra city in North Africa.
 

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Up to 500AD as in original post:)
Spoiler :
Well, i did settled north coast and when sword rushed Hatty. Took a MC as extortion tech and found GE settled in Thebes...

Had to do emergency pillaging of roads [mostly my own] in order not to allow praets reaching Hatty before peace treaty expires...

Managed to hit elite swordsmen quest while havin enough, unluckily since most were CR anyway i took drill option.
Sal had nice shrine going so i took it also. Will have take peace as Medina is too much packed with pro archers for a crappy city.

I also did reloaded few times since laptop+being in car does not help with civ much.
 

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I am wondering if I should have placed Western Sahara north of the Iron and west of the Elephants, just like you have. It would then have access to the sheep and be able to work an elephant camp and have some production. This sacrifices two coast squares.

The tradeoff looks like 5 commerce and an extra specialist in Morocco the way I have it now versus 4 production if I had moved the city in Western Sahara.

Is your plan to peacefully settle Africa now that you elminated Hatty and are eliminating Sally, your only competition for Africa? Or are you going to conquer and take over the world?
 
Actually i am not planning to go on. Normally the plan is to get A quality production site as i still have none. That means teching towards war elephants/macaes/cats and taking either Cyrus or Madrid>Paris and start working on Europe. Europe plan is better diplo wise, but no shrine in Madrid...

If i understand correct Sal already lost city in Africa to barbs so i would probably let him live and fight barbarians instead of me...
 
Had another go at this:
Spoiler :
Headed north for Carthage thinking I'd ignore Africa and head for Europe instead via elepult war. Fogbusted with skirmishers in the desert and barbs have so far not been a major problem. Build second city to help out with production and built Glight in Carthage while teching through towards construction.

mh1a0000.jpg


Got to 500bc. Now 1 turn from construction, 7 turns for HBR after that and then look for a victim. Isabella is likely to be a soft target, Louis not much tougher (and he built the Great Wall).
 
It's Turn 160, or 1000AD. It looks like a peacenik game. :pimp: I am peacefully expanding into Subsaharan Africa. Sorry.

I am involved in a few races, it looks like. The first race is the race to Liberalism, and it looks like it is against Egypt, who was the beneficiary of many of my trades.

The second race my rate of expansion against the research clock, and I will definately lose if I pursue the Liberalism race. I have the Library quest, so am supposed to build 11 Libraries, but have so far built only 9 cities. Even if I sacrifice the Liberalism race, I have about 20 turns of Medieval research left and then another 8 turns to get a Renaissance tech. I do not see how I can get an 11th city with a Library in that time frame.

Maybe I should have started the :viking: machine much sooner. There is something about being financial that makes me even more a builder addict.

In Carthage, on Turn 141, I managed to snag the Great Library. I then followed up with the National Epic. I wanted to get a :gp: Farm going.

As for expansion, it looks like I have claimed the Central Africa / Congo region and I will also get Southern Africa.

Regarding military, I let it slide too much. The scout has a chance of spotting some trouble before it happens - A few turns is a big difference. I think I should build some Combat 1 Crossbows and some CR Maces just so that I can promote them to rifles.

Here are a couple of screenshots and a save. Comments? Advice? Suggestions? Insults?
 

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