Mali....

No, Homer didn't, but somebody did write that Alexander's family were originally from Argos and descended from Perseus or Heracles (I really can't remember which), but it probably wasn't true, when I read about it, it was suspected to have been propaganda.
On the subject of the Celts, though, well, they were/are a highly awe-inspiring people. While they were not united, they probably were aware that they shared certain things with each other that they didn't share with, say, the Germans or the Romans. They were definitly very settled, and often existed in the capacity of middle-men between northern Europe and the Mediterranean. They sacked Rome, under a man known as Brennus (Hence his leadership), and had influence over most of western and central Europe by 400 BC.
And at any rate, the Vikings are in, and they lived in a similar way to the Celts (But with longboats instead of war parties...).
 
Voters??? Hello, the fact is the people in Macedonia spoke Greek, and the people that changed the name Vardar-Banovina to Macedonia speak Slavic-Bulgarian.

Soon enough Turks are going to be claiming to be Thracian and that Sparticus came from Turkish Thrace and not Greece. You guys are ridiculous.

As for the documention of Alexander's family coming from Argos, I will find out the sources, but it is more than one source. It is funny that an entire Empire can speak Greek and follow the traditions of Hellenism and all you morons believe Marshal Tito, a communist that worked with Josef Stalin hand in hand, he brought up the claim of Macedonianism at the League of Nations over the dispute of Macedonian territory. Ovbious it was completely made up, and in 1919 Greece was awarded Macedonia and Western Thrace.

How many cities were named Alexandria that spoke Greek? Do you actually consider these cities a part of Slavic History or Greek History?
 
Greek Stud said:
As for the documention of Alexander's family coming from Argos, I will find out the sources, but it is more than one source. It is funny that an entire Empire can speak Greek and follow the traditions of Hellenism

if that were accurate, you might have a point; however, significant portians of Macedonia were Illyrian, and Pannonian (which itself was an offshoot of Illyrian) which woudl actuall yput those areas closer to the Itallic tribes; the Thracians comprised another significant portion, and thier own ethno0culture group would be in the greater influnce of the Dacian peoples
 
and still yet, the people of FYROM are not Pannonian, Illyrian nor Macedonian Greek.

It seems that most people want Alexander the Great to be a man that was an other ethnicity than Greeks, that after conquering a culture that he is apparently not a part of was inspired to make an Empire of the culture that he was separate from. I'm not trying to mock the argument that Alexander wasnt Greek, but what other leader fought with his life to build an Empire for a culture he was not a part of?

Aristotle was his tutor. As a student Alexander is told to have learned Greek History. Many of you that dont speak Greek think that Greek is separate from Hellene. It is not. There is no word Greek in Greek. You are a Hellene. Other Hellenic Empires were the Mycenae and Athenian. Throughout history each one of these groups looked at other City-States as friends, enemies and allies but all Hellenic. I write this because people quote documents that describe the Macedonians as non-Hellenes. But was that not true of the Spartans who were Doric. The Hellenes of today identify first as ethnically Ionian, Romanoio (Byzantine Rome), Doric, Macedonian, Cretan, Cypriot, Pontic, Thracian, Corinthian, Messene, Cycladic, Chioti, Samoidos, Spartan and that yes the Trojan culture had lived on as well did Mysian, Lydian, Anatolian cultures did in Greek cities up until under the Ottoman Empire. We document the lifestyle/culture through Greek dialects, Greek dance, foods, traditions, clothing. The names change as time pass to represent new changes in cultural patterns. As the people that preserved and studied say Trojan culture lived in Pergamon. Or the people that perserved the documentation of Lydian culture came from Philadelphia and Sardis. Ionic culture was wide spread and is what is refered to today as Athenian culture. These trends in clothing, dialects, food, intermarrage of Ionic culture were linked from the Ionian islands near Italy to the Thessalonians then jump to Attica pass through distinctively Andros, Delos, Mykonos, Thera into Ionia where Miletus, Halicarnassus, and Ephessus end. The Aegean islands are distinctively more merritime cultures than Thessaly, Athens and Ephessus. The Ionic Islands centered around the culture in Ithaca, these people were more formal and organized, proper than what you wouldve seen in Delos, Andros, Mykonos. Cycladic culture is the island culture that disturbed the Athenian culture pattern in the Aegean Islands.

The point in all of this is to somewhat give a glimpse of how Hellenic culture was tied together as a functioning unit, but separate by ideals. If only the Arabs hadnt burned the Great Library of Alexandria, there would be more to refer to. But believe me when I say how important culture in general is to us. We documented history in the Library of Alexandria and this month you will see the French-Canadian-Greek intiative to reinstate a global School of Athens in Greece. It is for modern purposes, but serves as a forum between cultures on global governance and welfare. After being presented at the UN it will either pass or fail. In the School of Athens you will most likely see the case of Macedonianism be discussed and hopefully it will bring an understanding between the Slavic Argument and Greek Argument.

Last note for now:
Macedonia conquered: the Hellas Strait, Thessaly, Peloponessos and Thrace for Greek culture.
Sparta conquered: Messene, Arcadia.
Athenians fought and absorbed other City-States.

The Greeks always fought each other, the Macedonian Greeks were the first ones to unite us to conquer what was then the world. The Macedonia Greek culture for Greeks today represents our unity as Greeks. So when people say we whine about the name Macedonia, it is because they are stealing our identity. It is identity theft. It is an effort to destabilize our credibility from the evidences that together with Britons, French and Italians we have documented from archeological artifacts. If Slavs are named Macedonians, then that means Greeks can no longer base who they are off the Ancient Greeks. The strongest point of Ancient Greece was when it was led from Pella.

Well I should have bored a majority of you by now. I guess I should find the reference to the Argos born Royal Family statement. Later
 
Well, this is very, very topical to questions about Mali...
But at any rate, Alexander considered himself Greek and had been raised as if he were. The lands in which he dwelled had at various points been seen as barbarian lands, but Greek culture influence extended outwards and Macedon came under Greek influence. I would not put it beyond possibility, that Alexander was of Greek descent, but the peasants and lower classes of Macedon would have been more Illyrian.
It seems that most people want Alexander the Great to be a man that was an other ethnicity than Greeks, that after conquering a culture that he is apparently not a part of was inspired to make an Empire of the culture that he was separate from. I'm not trying to mock the argument that Alexander wasnt Greek, but what other leader fought with his life to build an Empire for a culture he was not a part of?
I was always taught that Alexander attacked and conquered the Persians as a massive act of revenge for their conquest of Macedon during the Persian Wars, and due to curiosity and wish to emulate ancient heroes. I don't think he would have been actively attempting to expand Greek culture. He was going to make Babylon his capital, after all, hardly a Greek city.
 
And the Maltese were civilized before anyone else. We got the oldest buildings in the world you know... why aren't we in the game?
 
finalhistorian said:
the first civs were the river valley civs they were egypt, babylon, india and china

the ancient people of Malta are the exception to the rule; they wer eplayign with big rocks before even the egyptians, and thier mighty temples to told mother-goddesses of the stoneages are somthign to behold.

They really are a mystery I'd liek to crack.

(though before anyone goes and says Atlantis about them, I ask that you read this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2657118&postcount=33)
 
could you please cite ur source xen i find it hard 2 believe people living on an island could form a civ w/ the limited resouces
 
finalhistorian said:
could you please cite ur source xen i find it hard 2 believe people living on an island could form a civ w/ the limited resouces

217.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Malta#Prehistory

One of the most notable periods of Malta's history is the temple period, starting around 3600 BC. Malta's prehistoric temples are the oldest free-standing buildings in the world.

mnajdra.jpg


malta_mnjandra_temple.jpg


Many of the temples are in the form of five semicircular rooms connected at the centre. It has been suggested that these might have represented the head, arms and legs of a deity, since one of the most common statues found in these temples is that of a fat woman—a symbol of fertility. The Temple period lasted until about 2500 BC, at which point the civilisation that raised these huge monoliths seems to have disappeared. There is a lot of speculation about what might have happened, and whether they were completely wiped out or their numbers fell to such levels that no trace remains of their presence.

gg2.jpg
 
http://www.truegood.fsnet.co.uk/hagarq2.htm seems to suggest that the temples were first built around 10000 BC, which would make them over twice as old as any other known human structure. However, I cannot find any other source that agrees with that opinion. The overwhemling opinion is that they were started aroiund 3600 BC, which still makes them older than anywhere else by a significant margin.

ETA: recent submarine archaeology has discovered undersea ruins off the coast of Malta. Couple this with the archeological theory that towards teh end of the last ice age the then-below sea level mediterranean was flooded when the sea levels rose. I've also seen evidenbce that Malta's sister island, Gozo, was Homer's Calypso.
 
very interesting...oh if only more were known.....how advanced were they in other areas? more than impressive buildings r needed 2 b considered a civ (stonehenge
 
any one hearabout that under watter temple near japan??
 
In terms of metal working, they had nothing. Which is you think about it, amkes what they did do with stone even more impressive. We know they were highly religious, with a cult centering around a fertility goddess in the shape of a fat woman. The alignment of teh temples suggests some knowledge of astronomy and equinoxes. There were established burial rites, and ruts in the ground suggest they had wheels and carts, and domesticated animals to pull them. Unfortunately, there is no evidence of writing, which in turn means little proof either way for many other technologies. The main activities of the time were almost certainly shepherding and fishing. It is unknown whether agriculture or irrigation was practiced.
 
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