Manifest Destiny - What's the advantage?

[SirSaab]

Being an American, I really would like to play my first ciV game as America, but I can't see a reason to. First, what "American" quality is Manifest Destiny (Military Units have +1 sight range, 25% discount purchasing tiles) supposed to portray? Louis & Clark expedition? Louisiana Purchase? Seems kinda weak as a SA. It also seems to have the least synergy of any civ between SA and UU/UB. The Minuteman (combat bonus in friendly territory) doesn't play very well with this SA.

Can anybody tell me what a proper strategy would be as America? I see how an early game landgrab would work, but it doesn't convey any culture bonus, military bonus, or monetary bonus (maybe more tradable goods via cheaper land-grabs?).

Thoughts?

 

[paperfire]

I hear it's the civilization for new players. It's one of the few bonuses that doesn't force you to adopt a particular strategy.

 

[Some guy]

None of the civilization's special abilities are "that great". It's just early expansion like France is also early expansion with +1 culture until Steam Power.

 

[SirSaab]

I hear it's the civilization for new players. It's one of the few bonuses that doesn't force you to adopt a particular strategy.

Bah! I don't disagree, just... bah!

I can see this being somewhat of an advantage to America's navy late-game, as a submarine will be able to spot naval units a hex earlier than any other civ, and more importantly, Destroyers will be able to spot enemy subs a hex earlier (provided the AI actually builds subs this time around...

Meh.

 

[SirSaab]

...with +1 culture until Steam Power.

WITH +1 culture. France gets a huge early game social policy because of that +1 (I read 8 turns for 1st policy vs. 25 for other civs)

 

[Souron]

I agree with paperfire. It's the one civ that does not demand a particular strategy to be chosen before the game starts.

As for what Manifest Destiny is all about, it's an attitude, not an event. It's the attitude that America deserves to be a coast to coast nation. Wiki can explain these sorts of things.

 

[Semmel]

The AI build subs all the time in my civ4 games.. they always destroy the fishing nets i layed out 3000 years ago with them. I hate them for it because it requires so much micro to fix that!

 

[Lyoncet]

Well, I'd say that some abilities are excellent (much better than America's). However, it's been well established that the devs' balance paradigm was to 1) have every Civ balanced as a whole and 2) make sure every Civ gets some benefit from UU/UB/SA at any given point in the game. Manifest Destiny does seem lacking, but I can actually see the +1 sight being quite useful in combat situations with 1UPT and 2-movement standard units meaning you may not always know what your opponent has up his/her sleeve until it's too late. The 25% tile cost reduction seems a little measly to be honest, but again we'll have to see what the cost looks like and how often you'll actually get a bonus from nabbing that 2-hex-away tile early.

That said, so far I don't see America as being all that great; while we don't know exactly what bonus the B-17 has over normal bombers, Manifest Destiny seems all right but not great and Minutemen… well, I guess we'll have to see if more battles will be fought in your own terrain now. But at least in CIV, if your enemies were within your borders you were playing wrong, unless you got the great wall and were shooting for the extra generals, and I don't really see that changing much in CiV.

Also I'd say that there are a few SAs that are "quite great." Greece's could be enormously powerful, as could Japan's, Russia's, France's, and others. Don't want to start a "which SA is the best????" tangent, but those are a few that seem really powerful just by their own merits.

 

[Some guy]

..."Seem" powerful...

 

[Thormodr]

I think Manifest destiny will make America one of the better Civs. Cheap early land grabs sounds good to me.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hmmm, lets see:

(1) If you can see +1 hexes further than other civs, then you'll see those resources & enemies significantly earlier.

(2) If you can acquire tiles for a cheaper price, then this means you'll be able to acquire those resources before your near neighbours do.

So, if I could see a set strategy that would work best for the Americans, then I'd say its *resource monopolization*. This is especially true if they pursue the Liberty Branch of the social policy tree-which aids expansion (again, seriously, that's much more the trait of the more Imperial "Traditional" branch-but that's another issue ).

The other thing, though, is that both of their UU's are post-Middle Ages, giving them a later game advantage. So, if I could suggest an over-arching strategy, it would be this-use your SA & early purchase of Liberty policies to hog as much ground-& resources-as early as possible, but otherwise play a quiet diplomatic game until the Renaissance (perhaps using your more extensive maps as leverage ). Then, once you can start building Minutemen &-after that-B-17 bombers, try & go for a late-game military victory!

Just a thought!

Aussie.

 

[Stefanskantine]

I wouldn't discount the advantage of 1 hex extra sight for early game exploration and expansion.

Additionally, I think I read somewhere that some late game units and maybe air units can use indirect bombardment (bombard where they can't see, but the player's other units can see). If true, then America would have a strategic advantage. Ground units could "see" one hex farther, enabling bombardment but keeping oout of harm's way. This combined with the 2nd UU would give a late game military advantage.

 

[SirSaab]

...play a quiet diplomatic game until the Renaissance... Then... go for a late-game military victory!

Just a thought!

Aussie.

You're forgetting, I'm AMERICAN! Diplomacy? Delayed gratification? I want it in a smoldering heap, and I want it NOW!!!

 

[Thyrwyn]

I have to agree with Aussie Lurker's analysis. America will excel at scouting the land in the early game: which also means they will meet City States earlier (which they can befriend with some of that saved gold). It also means that they will be more likely to discover Natural Wonders (+1 Happiness each).

Later, that increased visibility will allow give them an edge while waging war - especially when pushing into enemy territory. It might prove to be a huge advantage in naval warfare, since their fleets will be able to see the enemy before they can be seen.

And cheaper land? always good.

 

[Lyoncet]

You're forgetting, I'm AMERICAN! Diplomacy? Delayed gratification? I want it in a smoldering heap, and I want it NOW!!!

 

[Thyrwyn]

Where o where is good old Teddy Roosevelt when we need him

 

[Willowmound]

First, what "American" quality is Manifest Destiny (Military Units have +1 sight range, 25% discount purchasing tiles) supposed to portray? Louis & Clark expedition? Louisiana Purchase?

"Manifest Destiny was the 19th century American belief that the United States was destined to expand across the North American continent, from the Atlantic seaboard to the Pacific Ocean. It was used by Democrats in the 1840s to justify the war with Mexico; the concept was denounced by Whigs, and fell into disuse after the mid 1850s.

Advocates of Manifest Destiny believed that expansion was not only wise but that it was readily apparent (manifest) and inexorable (destiny)."

From Wikipedia.

 

[Vraslosken]

Being an American, I really would like to play my first ciV game as America, but I can't see a reason to.

You're American. You would really like to play America.

I see those two as perfectly good reasons. In fact, I can't think of better reasons than the second.

 

[Calouste]

The Minuteman (combat bonus in friendly territory) doesn't play very well with this SA.

You can buy land cheaper and you have a UU that gets a bonus in that cheaper land you just bought. I definitely see a synergy there.

Early game strategy for the Americans seems fairly straightforward, explore and expand. Probably build 2 scouts and start looking around for some free happiness from natural wonder discoveries and some nice city sites with happiness resources and research towards Mining and Calendar in the mean time so you can use those resources. Even after the exploration phase, the extra sight will be useful because you will see any invasion force coming earlier.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

"Manifest Destiny was the 19th century American belief that the United States was destined to expand across the North American continent, from the Atlantic seaboard to the Pacific Ocean. It was used by Democrats in the 1840s to justify the war with Mexico; the concept was denounced by Whigs, and fell into disuse after the mid 1850s.

Advocates of Manifest Destiny believed that expansion was not only wise but that it was readily apparent (manifest) and inexorable (destiny)."

From Wikipedia.

Its kind of funny how things change, isn't it? Back then the Democrats (who are now labeled as "Peaceniks" now) were the expansionist War-mongers & the Whigs (predecessors of the Republican Party) denounced the concept !

Aussie.