mansa musha skirmisher rush

[MicrowaveWalrus]

awesome!

i see no reason to not use it most of the time.
it always works 1v1 against the AI (well, i just play at noble setting)

and i've been playing multiplayer...
it usually wipes out bad players quickly

good players...hmm...

 

[Udey1]

I think the folder you want is civfanatics/Multiplayer & PBEM.

 

[Kesshi]

MicrowaveWalrus,

In terms of single player, you can any-unit-rush on noble. Warrior, Archer, Pikeman rushes, they all work.

In terms of multiplayer, any strategy which relies on your enemy's lack of intelligence is not a sound strategy.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

MicrowaveWalrus,

In terms of single player, you can any-unit-rush on noble. Warrior, Archer, Pikeman rushes, they all work.

In terms of multiplayer, any strategy which relies on your enemy's lack of intelligence is not a sound strategy.

That said, it is unbelievably difficult to deal with skirmisher chokes if you don't have BFC copper or horse in the capitol, unless you're Inca.

An unrestricted PRO mali leader is a joke...the unit can take shock and beat axes easily on a hammer basis (or even outright...), murders the hell out of archers in the field (and isn't bad vs cities with cover) and is stronger at base than chariots due to first strikes. Assuming a small stack of them doesn't kill someone unprepared outright, exactly how would you deal with a skirmisher choke? Archers have TERRIBLE odds vs them even on flatlands, so it quickly turns into a pillage party followed up by a pair of them sitting on a hill or two next to the (now) unimproved food specials. Death warrant.

Can that be dealt with? Possibly, but it is *not* pretty and you do *not* want to be next to someone who tries that.

 

[mariogreymist]

That said, it is unbelievably difficult to deal with skirmisher chokes if you don't have BFC copper or horse in the capitol, unless you're Inca.

An unrestricted PRO mali leader is a joke...the unit can take shock and beat axes easily on a hammer basis (or even outright...), murders the hell out of archers in the field (and isn't bad vs cities with cover) and is stronger at base than chariots due to first strikes. Assuming a small stack of them doesn't kill someone unprepared outright, exactly how would you deal with a skirmisher choke? Archers have TERRIBLE odds vs them even on flatlands, so it quickly turns into a pillage party followed up by a pair of them sitting on a hill or two next to the (now) unimproved food specials. Death warrant.

Can that be dealt with? Possibly, but it is *not* pretty and you do *not* want to be next to someone who tries that.

I see a team play gambit here: SB gifts archers to mansa....got nothing to worry about until you see swords/HAs.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

^ Wouldn't they just stay as archers?

 

[mariogreymist]

Do they? That's sad. Haven't played team civ, so I have no idea.

 

[Fleme]

Units don't change into UU's and vice versa when gifting, take it from someone who plays team games almost exclusively.

On the topic of skirmisher rush; It's incredibly effective. Skirmisher is very cost-effective in terms of hammer-strength conversion and with their innate higher strength and extra fs, they are potent rushers too. Granted, they're no Immortal (unit) but they do get the job done up to Immortal (level).

 

[Iranon]

I have been singing Skirmishers' praises since a time when most people here considered them useless for humans.

They are obnoxious to deal with even if you manage to keep a strategic resource because there is no cost-effective way to get rid of them: no single non-Unique unit even reaches parity against them on a hammer-for-hammer basis. Praetorians can be fended off by Axemen, War Chariots and Immortals by Spearmen, Quechuas by pretty much anything if you manage to keep a strategic resource... but things will always be ugly against Skirmishers unless you have a useful UU yourself or you somehow make it to catapults without being choked out of the game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

They are obnoxious to deal with even if you manage to keep a strategic resource because there is no cost-effective way to get rid of them

A strat resource makes things far less grim. Given some travel time and favorable defensive positioning you can probably clear them out by forcing them onto flatlands. If you're AGG, axes with cover are pretty good, but mostly the combination of travel time (most MP is played with relatively fast speeds, often quick) and forcing defenders onto flatlands is usually enough.

However, without at least axes or something the defender is boned...skirms can just walk on the flatlands and pillage freely, which is a serious problem.

Obviously the 2 units you absolutely, positively have to avoid when using skirmishers are quechas (they smear you in hammer effectiveness) and immortals (they easily out-strip skirms head to head).

Despite all that, if you spawn next to a choking mali it's hard to do anything.

 

[Infantry#14]

I see a team play gambit here: SB gifts archers to mansa....got nothing to worry about until you see swords/HAs.

One trick in MP is gift units to ally and have them upgrade to their UU. In one game, my partner gave me a stack of Numidian Cavalry, to be upgraded into my UU Cataphract.

 

[MicrowaveWalrus]

So recently I ran into Maya for the first time. Pacal II. Freakin uh, the improved spearmen (they don't need copper)? Lords those things killed my skirmishers. However, when I tried playing as Pacal, I found that they are more expensive than skirmishers.

 

[mariogreymist]

Pacal is the one leader I just won't rush with immortals or war chariots, regardless of how close he is. Spears without the resource requirement...complete chariot immunity. Axes do really well against him though

 

[Monsterzuma]

You've got to be careful with your maintenance costs when using these things. You still pay a fixed number of coins for every unit, so an army equivalent in strength to one composed of axemen is often in the area of 1.5 times as maintenance costly.

 

[mariogreymist]

One trick in MP is gift units to ally and have them upgrade to their UU. In one game, my partner gave me a stack of Numidian Cavalry, to be upgraded into my UU Cataphract.

I see several good applications of this, even outside horse troops (in which the applications are too numerous to list given the number of mounted UUs)
HC or Gilgamesh with either Ragnar or Toku
Zara Yaqob or the Ottomans and the English
HC and Shaka or Gilgamesh could also be strong.

Most of those combos even have FIN possibilities (the exception being Gilgamesh/Toku) making raising the cash for upgrades simpler. I am now thinking of playing a MP team game, to see if that ZY/Victoria combo would be as strong as it looks on paper to me. Good rex abilities, strong economic traits...Drill IV Redcoats at an early stage.

 

[CHEESE!]

The Ottomans-English one wouldn't work. Nor would HC/Shaka. These bonuses are innate, not promoted (unlike the Oromo, which has free promotions), and wouldn't stay with the upgraded unit.

 

[Sun Wukong]

Imagine if spears could be promoted to muskets... Mobility Musketeers from Shaka! A surprisingly fast unit even faster!

 

[rabidveggie]

I find the main problem with trying to choke a player in multiplayer is that while you are doing it all your other opponents are growing stronger while your stuck pumping units.

 

[Dr.Null]

Imagine if spears could be promoted to muskets... Mobility Musketeers from Shaka! A surprisingly fast unit even faster!

It's too bad Mobility does nothing for 1-move units.

I was somewhat sad when I tried this with Riflemen.

 

[bakshi]

It's too bad Mobility does nothing for 1-move units.

I was somewhat sad when I tried this with Riflemen.

Frances UU has 2 movement points.