[GS] Maori gameplay

[d_b]

The marae is the most OP thing this game has ever introduced. Replacing the amphitheater you can't build great writers instead you get passive income off land... 2 culture and 2 faith per tile with passable feature - passable feature = woods, jungle, marsh, floodplains, geothermal fissure, reef and maybe more. Basically, you build a marae and BAM - don't need holy sites for faith, and rocket forward of opposition in culture.

I play with one or two initial holy sites - for the entire game. Maybe another if there's a religious front I want to defend easier, but you only need one I do two to ensure I get religion fast. Best pantheon imo Earth Goddess, for all those plus three tiles once the marae is added.

Start a religion and get the belief (colonisation I think) that newly founded cities are your religion. And Jesuit education to faith buy marae. (those two words rhyme btw if you don't know Maori) (buy and marae).

Get the government building that gives a free builder in new cities.

You can rush for a marae with a early wonder get in around turn 40 - 50 but going slightly slower and getting the government building up and everything lined up by turn 60 is easily doable and possibly earlier if you can coordinate game mechanics I get a bit lost at times.

Monumentality hits. This is useful to get traders out, extra builders, but be frugal...

You spam out settlers that, when they set up, will have a religion, ability to faith buy a marae, and a builder. You are allowed to chop as Maori, it's just not advised - but your districts got to go somewhere right? Chop in a couple of spots for key districts to speed up theater squares to spam maraes. Don't waste faith on settlers using the card and govt building you can pop them out fast. I use magnus level two (don't lose pop) at this point, then kick him out of capital to furthest front and replace with him with pingala. Use your faith and spam maraes thus generating more faith. Winning.

If you want to see something ridiculous get a marae, the wonder for jungle, earth goddess, and Reyna with the gold for unimproved tiles. HAHAHAHAHA.

Can't even play other civs right now. This is too good. Yet to try them in science but there's no reason they can't excel there too.

Enjoy.

 

[d_b]

For a laugh, here's the Reyna, Wonder, Marae, Earth Goddess combo in South America.

Note there is hardly any extra faith from the pantheon in land like this, whereas on islands with jungle, most every tile is appealing and thus collecting the 1 faith.

Once you have a few marae down your faith hits a point where you can start pushing out settlers, marae, etc at once. I spammed a 1350 faith engineer to push out the wonder for a photo for demonstration purposes, was only a 10 turn delay from marae/settler spam.

The plan to just sail over late to a deliberately non-populated South America was thwarted by hordes of barbarian ships and units. I had to scrap every tile forward to place the city and was surrounded as I built the wonder. But I got it.

Now I just need some neighborhoods/traders so I can populate the place. Culture is now so high from several marae that neighborhoods are just round the corner.

 

[Cakeathon]

Yeah, I noticed marae were pretty good while doing a test run on same settings as GOTM, didn't even get a religion or build holy districts. So much faith to buy stuff, combined your your maintenance-free army of Toas you are just swimming in gold and faith, I bought so many units and great artists/musicians in that game too. Your whole empire ends up looking like pic related, feels pretty good, lots of colors and beautiful trees. Also, I noticed you save a lot on builders. I have so many extra builders they are just on sleep all over the place.

Spoiler :

 

[d_b]

Here's the city after the Conservation tech, giving another hammer to unimproved jungle and forest.

Note the worker in the city - still asleep!

The borders are growing far faster than the population. I don't want to use population cards they force amenity demands in other cities I don't want to grow so much, they grow... and then I switch out the card and either have to build neighborhoods everywhere or put up with pop problem pop-ups... I really need those neighborhoods here though. Preemptively getting the amenities in.

 

[Victoria]

Here's the city after the Conservation tech,

If they are OP why are you still playing to conservation ... I know, I know, just for fun...
The Marae is good for RV however chop and war still outpower peaceful Maori...There are better peaceful civs.
In war the Toa is awesome but not the best thing out there
For a CV many civs will outstrip them because the marae culture converts to tourism quite late.
Their lack of chopping resources is a subtle but fairly big nerf if you have done a lot of chopping.
Looking at tile pawn does not make it the most OP thing out there
The place where the maori really does well is flexibility.
Do not get me wrong... I am a HUGE fan (ex pat kiwi) and am having trouble playing anything else, I am primarily a mechanic and try to look objectively at the facts.
Just to let you know... I just played a Maori Rock band CV... it was a really great game and not many civs will be better at doing that. Basically win a CV with just wonders and rock bands.
I just finished it, here is the link to the culture screens
Ok so what do Rock Bands actually do?
I do get a bit tired of tile pawn shots though. a shot of your best city with the right governor is not a shot of your empire.
This below is more like a standard Maori landscape

 

[Cakeathon]

If they are OP why are you still playing to conservation

How early are CVs without city-state shenanigans? I don't know much about CV. In my practice for GOTM(same settings) I hit conservation t135(t179 CV, well actually t131 domv by accident but I reloaded) in that game and I'm sure somebody who has a clue what they are doing could hit it way earlier. Unless you don't go culture ? not sure what people do for CV, that was my 2nd CV ever.

 

[d_b]

Gee thanks for the lecture and critique Victoria. My view is the marae is like having a great wonder in every city. It does require a district placed...

Yes they're flexible, yes all victory types are possible with them, yes I've discovered rock bands. No I didn't record it and write out a spreadsheet.

Including 'do not get me wrong' in this haughty superior tone of lecturing... I don't like it and it doesn't excuse it. This is just a game.

I couldn't care if you were the world's renowned expert, pull your head in.

Moderator Action: Please address the issues presented by other members. If you feel you have been trolled, please report the post. Posting about another member is inappropriate. leif

 

[Victoria]

... this haughty superior tone of lecturing... I don't like it ..., pull your head in.

I have never said I am the greatest, many players are much better than me.I feel your post was bigging up the maori too much with that screenshot, sorry.
I do not feel I was condescending, I even put a happy smile in there, the easiest way is just to ignore me then... go and ignore my posts please, I'll do the same for yours...and we will never have this issue again.
Just click on my name and choose ignore please

 

[Victoria]

How early are CVs without city-state shenanigans?

Not sure what you mean by shenanigans but T100-150 is the area you are looking at with earlier Kandy ones possible. The Chinese are masters at this but there are some really fast players in this forum also.Wait for he next CV GOTM and then give it a go, its a great learning place.
I do need to rewrite the culture guide... just finding the time.

 

[Carto]

I can't speak to how Maori play if you try to maximize your victory, but their design lends itself to minimalist game play. I won a slow CV at t275 in the recent GOTM, but I did it without using aqueducts, half the districts, or any improvement more advanced than an iron mine or national park. I'm sure I could do that with other civs as well, but it wouldn't feel as fun or thematic as the Maori play through.

With the above in mind, the Maori have a huge geographic advantage in the game. They can (1) immediately access a terrain type that other civs and barbarians won't use for dozens of turns, and (2) using fishing boats w/GotS as well as the marae to generate almost any yield, even on marginal terrain. Since they still generate some science, the delayed start can even work in your favor by letting you adapt to the AI's setup.

They need their own unique version of the rock band, though, only equipped with ukuleles.

 

[kb27787]

If they are OP why are you still playing to conservation ... I know, I know, just for fun...
The Marae is good for RV however chop and war still outpower peaceful Maori...There are better peaceful civs.
In war the Toa is awesome but not the best thing out there
For a CV many civs will outstrip them because the marae culture converts to tourism quite late.
Their lack of chopping resources is a subtle but fairly big nerf if you have done a lot of chopping.
Looking at tile pawn does not make it the most OP thing out there
The place where the maori really does well is flexibility.
Do not get me wrong... I am a HUGE fan (ex pat kiwi) and am having trouble playing anything else, I am primarily a mechanic and try to look objectively at the facts.
Just to let you know... I just played a Maori Rock band CV... it was a really great game and not many civs will be better at doing that. Basically win a CV with just wonders and rock bands.
I just finished it, here is the link to the culture screens
Ok so what do Rock Bands actually do?
I do get a bit tired of tile pawn shots though. a shot of your best city with the right governor is not a shot of your empire.
This below is more like a standard Maori landscape
View attachment 518774

I always reach conservation before I reach flight... Especially with these guys...

With computers nerf I almost feel that you can ignore science for CV with most civs... Science does very little except for seaside resorts and printing.

Maori however is quite different because without flight they almost have no tourism... How many campi do you usually build? And do you boost science with cards? Or do we just make a mad dash for cold war (yes, Maori gets the civic in Renaissance easily) and ignore everything else? I find rock bands a bit too unpredictable in their outcomes.

 

[Victoria]

Science does very little except for seaside resorts and printing.

! Umm just! I have been saving a Maori resort game for a good mood day. I love resorts and Maori will be great for it, I just feel it... it is just the science.

How many campi

Often none, just take other. For my resort game I will likely only build 2 Marae as you have inadvertently hit the nail on the head. When people see a huge culture maker like a Marae they go OTT with them while it may be better to say hey, I do not need so many... the game is about timing so hitting conservation and resorts together is the idea.

 

[Arilian]

I believe this is bugged - I don't think this amount of culture + faith is intended. It was probably meant to be on things like natural wonders and parks, MAYBE on jungles. Definitely not second growth forests...

If not bugged this is the worst civ design ever, way too powerful for any victory. (toa does not need iron for conquest, then you have 10 times the faith as anyone else in the game, and also big culture and production for any other victory. This civ have all the advantages and no weaknesses)

I like them of course because they are op, I just played 3 different game with them, but its like playing in prince instead of deity...

 

[Victoria]

no weaknesses

Yes, they cannot perform any fast victories due to being unable to chop resources.
If you are not a fast play style then sure, you may think of them as OP but funnily enough, not that fast at CV.

 

[Arilian]

Ok, I almost never race with the turn timer, but this is correct. If the earliest space win is the goal, they are not the most powerful civ.
But I think for everything else they are.

 

[HermannLombard]

For my resort game I will likely only build 2 Marae as you have inadvertently hit the nail on the head. When people see a huge culture maker like a Marae they go OTT with them while it may be better to say hey, I do not need so many... the game is about timing so hitting conservation and resorts together is the idea.

I clearly had the wrong idea, using Marae as a foundation for museums. In my game there were so few forests or rainforests that I only wanted to build about 3 Marae and went down a different tech path. I guess I need to get resorts down before they wash away.

 

[HermannLombard]

I do need to rewrite the culture guide... just finding the time.

Much as I appreciate your thorough guides, I'm glad you're finding the time to actually play rather than doing so much testing.

That said, off the top of your head, what do you see as the biggest changes to CV since your last update of the guide?

 

[Victoria]

I always play more than I write. I ONLY write about what I have done, I never give opinions on civs I have not played etc etc. Playing is so much more different than thinking

That said, off the top of your head, what do you see as the biggest changes to CV since your last update of the guide?

Rock bands is new and covered in another thread very well
Computers has been split now and so it is not so great to beeline it. This inadvertantly buffs Americas broadcast centers which are also buffed with 200% for musicians.
Basically with the nerf to computers and more strength in the culture tree you can push a CV mor ethrough the culture tree and only need to get to printing. If you have a UI you still need flight
Different governments make no difference until tier 3 when they are all just -20% and to me as a fast CV player this is the big difference. To a later player computers will probably be... unless we want to discuss OP rock bands.

My view is only my view... I respect anyone that questions anything I say and even if you have been playing the game for 1 day you may come up with something quite valid. I often get things wrong, its how I learn more.

I clearly had the wrong idea, using Marae as a foundation for museums.

There is nothing wrong with that, just be aware that museums fill slower than getting resorts which will seriously add to your Marae values faster than museums will. This is especially for the Maori.
A resort when first built will only give 4 tourism but that means a builder gives 20 tourism or more... if you have the beaches available. As you play more beach games you know what is the best land but normally the issue is finding it and getting there. The Maori has no problems in these areas.

 

[Socrates99]

Just started playing Maori. I seem to spawn at the poles a lot. Kind of annoying. How long is too long when sailing around looking for a capital spot? I figure the extra pop and builder are basically ~10 turns of free growth/production so do you usually want to settle before turn 15 or so? Seems like my choices have been stymied by CSs or I'm stuck in tundra.

 

[Victoria]

I figure the extra pop and builder are basically ~10 turns of free growth/production so do you usually want to settle before turn 15 or so?

I figure the sooner you settle the better the advantage. Just remember the maori's plossom early with fish, crab in particular is handy as you hot your pop limit quite fast If you want to explore with your settler, for goodness sake us the builder as getting your city going is an advantage... settle on T3-4 and get a settler out ASAP.... works amazingly well.