[Map script]Creation.py for FFH2
- Thread starter cephalo
- Start date
. The entire peninsula was forested, untill they decided to build the spanish armada.Thanks for the history lesson 
.
And Cephalo, all the trees give your maps a unique style, thats true and i can live with that of course.
But what about the starting locations. They seem to be even worse than the normal ones. I do not like to have 1/2 Civs out of the game cause of the location. Is there a possibilty for me to change that on my own?
Sorry for the questions and a big GZ
.And Cephalo, all the trees give your maps a unique style, thats true and i can live with that of course.
But what about the starting locations. They seem to be even worse than the normal ones. I do not like to have 1/2 Civs out of the game cause of the location. Is there a possibilty for me to change that on my own?
Sorry for the questions and a big GZ
cephalo
Deity
That's amazing! I so curious what the evidence is. The only thing that makes me question it, is that I live in a place that used to be plains, but because the bison no longer graze here and forest grass fires not allowed to burn, it's all covered in trees now. Here, the european presence caused trees to spring up everywhere where there was previously very few trees. I wonder what keeps them away in Scotland. This however, is veeeery off topic.
I should get back to questions about the map.
cephalo
Deity
Thanks for the history lesson
And Cephalo, all the trees give your maps a unique style, thats true and i can live with that of course.
But what about the starting locations. They seem to be even worse than the normal ones. I do not like to have 1/2 Civs out of the game cause of the location. Is there a possibilty for me to change that on my own?
Sorry for the questions and a big GZ
One of the goals of this map script was to put the individual civs in a fictionally appropriate climate area. That is achieved by placing them in a valley that most closely matches their defined preferences, that also is more distant to other starting locations. Once they have a valley, then the starting plot finder uses the normal routines to find the best place in just that one valley. It's kindof a difficult balance to get exactly right. If you have any ideas that can improve it, I'm all ears, but remember the guiding principle, "Fiction over function".
Broken Hawk
Emperor
Andreas Woolf
Chieftain
Sheep. LOTS of sheep.
No... That's Wales *cheeky grin*
A lot of Scotland still is trees - it's just not the parts that many people visit.
cephalo
Deity
You know, after doing some internet research on the subject, I have come to the conclusion that I know absolutely nothing about Scotland.
So when I say Scotland this and Scotland that, just ignore me.DharmaMcLaren
Warlord
The whole of Europe was once almost entirely covered in dense forest. So it's pretty much been mostly chopped down everywhere.
Blackmantle
King
Hello Cephalo, your Mapscript is very nice.
Using it exclusively for some time now.
One idea though for helping the Malakim and perhaps the Dwarves as well (Illians and Doviello have been helped by Patch 0.31 allredy if i remember rightly. So no other "terrain disadvantaged folks" anymore):
Add a good ammount of Oasis (read: quite alot) to the Malakim Valley.
That could help them to get on their feet way better (even though they did quite well in my last large map no-ai-building requirements Immortal game.) and it whould fit their style / background as well.
The same to a smaller degree with the Dwarves and their hilly plains:
With some more Food resources than average (wheat and pigs (or do they only appear on Grasslands? then Cows might be a better replacement even if not so fitting) whould be the most fitting i reckon) they should do well. How much is balanced, should be not so hard to test via some games. Feedback will be available for you on short notice, i'm sure.
Only if that can be sensibly done at all, naturally. But perhaps it could work. And that is guaranteed to help them big time and add some additional flavor for them as well.
To counter some comments about Lanun. I find playing them quite nice and powerful in the creation maps always starting by the ocean dividing the Continents that do exist (dont know about smaller maps than large though.).
If Pirate-Ports distance check changes, that may change though. But even then i think in the hands of an experienced player they are by no means disadvantaged on creation maps.
Thanks for your efforts though has made FFH even more enjoyable for me.
Using it exclusively for some time now.
One idea though for helping the Malakim and perhaps the Dwarves as well (Illians and Doviello have been helped by Patch 0.31 allredy if i remember rightly. So no other "terrain disadvantaged folks" anymore):
Add a good ammount of Oasis (read: quite alot) to the Malakim Valley.
That could help them to get on their feet way better (even though they did quite well in my last large map no-ai-building requirements Immortal game.) and it whould fit their style / background as well.
The same to a smaller degree with the Dwarves and their hilly plains:
With some more Food resources than average (wheat and pigs (or do they only appear on Grasslands? then Cows might be a better replacement even if not so fitting) whould be the most fitting i reckon) they should do well. How much is balanced, should be not so hard to test via some games. Feedback will be available for you on short notice, i'm sure.
Only if that can be sensibly done at all, naturally. But perhaps it could work. And that is guaranteed to help them big time and add some additional flavor for them as well.
To counter some comments about Lanun. I find playing them quite nice and powerful in the creation maps always starting by the ocean dividing the Continents that do exist (dont know about smaller maps than large though.).
If Pirate-Ports distance check changes, that may change though. But even then i think in the hands of an experienced player they are by no means disadvantaged on creation maps.
Thanks for your efforts though has made FFH even more enjoyable for me.
cephalo
Deity
One idea though for helping the Malakim and perhaps the Dwarves as well (Illians and Doviello have been helped by Patch 0.31 allredy if i remember rightly. So no other "terrain disadvantaged folks" anymore):
Add a good ammount of Oasis (read: quite alot) to the Malakim Valley.
That could help them to get on their feet way better (even though they did quite well in my last large map no-ai-building requirements Immortal game.) and it whould fit their style / background as well.
The same to a smaller degree with the Dwarves and their hilly plains:
With some more Food resources than average (wheat and pigs (or do they only appear on Grasslands? then Cows might be a better replacement even if not so fitting) whould be the most fitting i reckon) they should do well. How much is balanced, should be not so hard to test via some games. Feedback will be available for you on short notice, i'm sure.
Only if that can be sensibly done at all, naturally. But perhaps it could work. And that is guaranteed to help them big time and add some additional flavor for them as well.
Thanks for the compliments! Yeah, one of my big wish-listy things for FFH is that each civ with a terrain preference have some fun interesting way of utilizing it better than everyone else. Here is a thread I posted on the matter http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262124. It says "please change the game to suit my map."
The problem of just boosting their starting area is that then the other deserts remain useless even to the people who are supposed to thrive in the desert. In that case the only reason the Malakim can survive is not because of their knowledge and culture, but because they happen to have found a desert that is unusually productive. Also, anyone who would conquer them would enjoy these same benefits.
I totally see what you are thinking with this and I agree that a civ shouldn't be totally gimped by their fictional preference, but it should be done right instead of just a band-aid.
Blackmantle
King
For the Malakim thats not exactely appropriate (Again: in my first Game at 0.31 Immortal they rocked with perhaps even nr. 1 in scorebord at least until i decided to vasalize them with an ogre and a lot of high leveled drown 
). Because they still got the desert combat and sand lions which only they can get and without mana.
In fact they would do much better than anyone else in their favored terrain (which still whould not be really good for everyone else). Sufficient food (not more than anyone else but at least enough) combined with faster movement and combat bonus is no small feat.
And you could just do that with all deserts more or less (easier to code as well i presume).
I could understand if you whould say they whould be to strong but otherwhise i guess you underestimate the distinction of Malakim to others since 0.31. (the others have been made worse in that one instance there with sand lions becoming Malakim only.)
Perhaps just go ahead and test what i said. Just don't start near them. They'll stomp you at immortal deity very likely in that case.
To a lesser degree for the dwarves. They move better there than everyone else and get much more out of their mountains with Rok. (and as soon as they are established fully which is the only problem for them right now. So there you whould really just have to make it to their starting area. Everywhere else they whould do well if not trampled early.) But you could also fix that easyier by mixing grasland and plains for them. A few Grassland patches here and there should fix the problem.
). Because they still got the desert combat and sand lions which only they can get and without mana.In fact they would do much better than anyone else in their favored terrain (which still whould not be really good for everyone else). Sufficient food (not more than anyone else but at least enough) combined with faster movement and combat bonus is no small feat.
And you could just do that with all deserts more or less (easier to code as well i presume).
I could understand if you whould say they whould be to strong but otherwhise i guess you underestimate the distinction of Malakim to others since 0.31. (the others have been made worse in that one instance there with sand lions becoming Malakim only.)
Perhaps just go ahead and test what i said. Just don't start near them. They'll stomp you at immortal deity very likely in that case.
To a lesser degree for the dwarves. They move better there than everyone else and get much more out of their mountains with Rok. (and as soon as they are established fully which is the only problem for them right now. So there you whould really just have to make it to their starting area. Everywhere else they whould do well if not trampled early.) But you could also fix that easyier by mixing grasland and plains for them. A few Grassland patches here and there should fix the problem.
Can you look at adding a "balanced" option like the other scripts have. The problem is that my friends refuse to play without Blessings on (if they don't see 1-3 special resources reasonably close to their starting area then they feel that the area is "broken")
The problem with this is that we play standard maps and three maps in a row now we've had only one reagents on the entire map. With multiple continents this causes problems. IE I started as Sheim with something like 7 incense within 30 squares of me which is ironically enough totally worthless to sheim. Nobody could get t2 priests since I needed reagents and they all needed incense.
The problem with this is that we play standard maps and three maps in a row now we've had only one reagents on the entire map. With multiple continents this causes problems. IE I started as Sheim with something like 7 incense within 30 squares of me which is ironically enough totally worthless to sheim. Nobody could get t2 priests since I needed reagents and they all needed incense.
cephalo
Deity
Check out the link on the first post where I discuss this problem in detail. I believe that in .31 this problem should be fixed, or at least aleviated somewhat. Let me know if that's not the case.
cephalo
Deity
Well, I like to reserve dropdown options for things that people definately want to change from game to game. I've played a few maps that have pages upon pages of options, and I really don't like having to go through that. For things that are a matter of taste, I prefer to just give clear instructions for people to edit the script. That way, they set it to what looks good to them, and then they don't have to mess with it again until their tastes change.
As far as XY wrapping goes, I'm really kindof amazed that it works in the first place...
There are quite a few relevant functions in there that do not consider wrapping a possibility. The thing is, if you are looking for a wrapping map, that implies that you are seeing the world as a fully explorable, 'planetary' type spherical world, and if so, there are maps that are designed for that and do it better than Creation does. Creation is designed on a more detailed 'regional' scale, where beyond the map edges is simply unkown, and nobody has any hard evidence as to what the shape of the world might be in any scientific sense.If you are thinking of FFH in a planetary way, I would recommend PerfectWorld(link in sig) with the 'new world' rules turned off. That has oceans and continents and an earth like climate simulator. It's slow as molasses, but it generates nice maps with much fairer starting positions.
I will be updating Creation.py as things come up, for instance, I really need to do something about those desert mountains flaring up when hell boils over, but right now I'm working on a different project of my own. Hopefully I can get around to that soon.
Ceph you ever noticed any weird issues when using Creation with Teams or on Duel Maps? It seems to ignore civilization preferences in both cases.
We tried a three player game with one of my friends as Lanun and 4 games in a row he didn't start on coast (in fact one game my amurite teammate started on coast and Lanun was landlocked all 5)
In our duel maps we both picked elves and he started in jungle and I started on an island made of desert with 1 river starting about half way up it resulting in a line of about 11 flood plains. rest of the island was totally unbuildable.
Then we played one as Bannor and he started off in full forest while I as Luchuirp had the standard plains/hill start so its obviously working sometimes but I wonder if due to how you described it with it finding vallies it just messes up sometimes because it can't place?
I know we did a standard with FF enabled once (on .31) and it put both of us (lizard civs) 11 squares away our culture met up lol. that game oos'd tho ;/
We tried a three player game with one of my friends as Lanun and 4 games in a row he didn't start on coast (in fact one game my amurite teammate started on coast and Lanun was landlocked all 5)
In our duel maps we both picked elves and he started in jungle and I started on an island made of desert with 1 river starting about half way up it resulting in a line of about 11 flood plains. rest of the island was totally unbuildable.
Then we played one as Bannor and he started off in full forest while I as Luchuirp had the standard plains/hill start so its obviously working sometimes but I wonder if due to how you described it with it finding vallies it just messes up sometimes because it can't place?
I know we did a standard with FF enabled once (on .31) and it put both of us (lizard civs) 11 squares away our culture met up lol. that game oos'd tho ;/
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