Marathon speed is unbalanced? Any way to increase unit build rates to compensate?

[Bursk]

I apologise for creating yet another topic on Marathon game speed, but I did a search and didn't find a thread that deals specifically with how to balance Marathon (if indeed such a thing is possible).

From reading some topics, I understand that one of the big reasons for playing Marathon is that you get more use out of the units you've built. This is something I'm in favour of since I find that even on Epic I just don't feel like I'm getting enough use out of my units (although I am using the latest Better AI mod for Warlords).

But the downside of Marathon is that you can build loads of units, attack a civ and they don't have time to build units of their own to defend. Is this correct? If so, is there any way to increase the build rate of units in Marathon, but keep everything else the same? Surely if everyone can churn out units a lot more quickly, the 'build a large stack and wipe everyone out' problem will be considerably lessened.

Thoughts?

 

[Blaarg]

I don't understand how the 'downside' is a downside at all? If didn't build enough military units to defend from your rivals, then you deserve to lose.

 

[Shadowhal]

I don't understand how the 'downside' is a downside at all? If didn't build enough military units to defend from your rivals, then you deserve to lose.

in fact, to precise your position. marathon speed deliberatly does this in order to emphasise the strategic aspect of reconciling economic vs military might and the selectivity of scientific advances. in other words, the essence is that in marathon more than else, you cannot compensate long term mistakes such as not having produced enough units to defend capably by switching production and churning out a lot of units in a short time until the advancing army acutally reaches your cities.

its a change that i too will bear and that might cripple me in my first marathon game if i'm not careful.

 

[Willem]

I apologise for creating yet another topic on If so, is there any way to increase the build rate of units in Marathon, but keep everything else the same? Surely if everyone can churn out units a lot more quickly, the 'build a large stack and wipe everyone out' problem will be considerably lessened.

Thoughts?

In Marathon, everthing costs 3X as much as in normal, except for units. It only takes 2X as long to build one. So making it even quicker to build them would unbalance things even more.

 

[Dnomal]

As a marathon player i can see where you're coming from, it is true that civs face big problems if they don't havea significant military, but this is more realistic, in history civs couldn't muster up 20 or 30 units in 1 year.

The real issue in Marathon isn't production but finance, in Marathon the problems of gaining wealth are huge. The development time for a cottage to a town is immense in Marathon, but units still need to be paid, people who have large militaries early on risk bankrupacy, and perhaps even collapse, if your army goes on strike then disbands it could take centuries to rebuild, by which point you could yourself have been conquered.

Playing Marathon is harder than regular play since you have to balance military with economy so muchy more than in a normal or even epic game.

 

[Bursk]

Oh, so it seems that I've been mis-informed about the 'problems' with Marathon.

In that case, I'll crack on with my Marathon game and see how it goes.

 

[LuckyAC]

Well, the "problem" with marathon is that the Ai has no clue how to play it, since it's terrible at wars, and marathon makes wars much easier. Basically, it makes each difficulty level easier and makes aggressive play even more dominant, which is either good or bad depending on your perspective.

 

[duezeone]

I am playing my first marathon game right now and it is awesome. As a warmonger, I don't think I will ever switch back.

 

[CivDude86]

Load up the BetterAI then tell me the AI is terrible at war. It will be you wishing units were cheaper when you have to whip half your pop to just stop their attack.

 

[King Flevance]

I have played on marathon since it came out and I can't relate to the problem here. As Willem points out, units are already cheaper on marathon. I was considering modding units to be extremely cheapso that units could pop out very fast (1 unit every 1-2 turns - about 100 or so) Then I realised that if you did you wouldn't have to support an army at wartime. You could just put a city on a building queue of units and just have them constantly rushing the enemy.

To me this thread seems more like a case of builder-itis. Or possibly just low production values of your cities. Usually I have a handful of cities that can pump out a unit ever 5-8 turns. Even less if the unit isn't a newer unit. You figure in that usually at least 3-5 cities are able to do this andit doesnt take more than 20 turns to have a small force. Now if you don't have 20 turns and ned the units now, you messed up further back.

I have the exact opposite problem. When I play online it is always on quick-normal game speed. Improvements and wonders are always a handful of turns so I tend to keep putting off my military. On marathon I spend so many turns building buildings, that after one is done I am usually worrying about my military. ANyways the production cost should be in an XML file. Although, I can't say exactly where at this point in time.

 

[feldmarshall]

I don't understand how the 'downside' is a downside at all? If didn't build enough military units to defend from your rivals, then you deserve to lose.

you said it well