Massacring like nazists by US?

REDY

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No no, its not another blaming on Americans, only made more "action" to more replies;)

The problem is that in school I learnt much about pilgrims, mayflower, American revolution, civil war....but about Indians not. Probably its because I may know it from western films, country music, etc., but seriously I dont know if I should trust it.

I want to know some details about rights of Indians, American treating with them and why tribes ended. I am confused because Indian reservation looks little like Nazist concentration camp. What was difference?

Please respond on all questions
 
Though I would be one of the first to criticize white (Christian) America for what it has done to Amerindian peoples (please don't use the term Indian, if only for the fact that when speaking about history it can be quite confusing to use "Indian" for both Amerindians/Native Americans and people from India), the reservations are nothing like the Nazi concentration camps. The reservations are merely what little bit of property white Americans left for the Amerindians. Amerindians are free to live on or off the reservations as they please. In general, reservations are run through comunal ownership and led by a tribal council.

As for the history of Amerindians, that is far to large a topic to summarize in one post or even one book. There are a very large number of works I suggest you read, one of which would be 1491 by Charles C. Mann. However, I am afraid I do not know what, if any, languages it has been translated into and given that English is not your first language it may be innaccesible. For Amerindian religion/culture a good read would be Black Elk Speaks dictated by Black Elk and written/published by John Neihardt. Any other books dictated by Black Elk are also good. However, I must warn you not to assume that Black Elk's Lakota culture is the same as all Amerindian culture since the cultures of Native America are very wide ranging. On the internet I, as always, recomend at least starting on Wikipedia. Read the articles there and then use the outside links to expand elsewhere.
 
The consensus is that overall indians were treated really poorly, though it varied from president to president.

However comparisson with the nazis is not really apt. There was never an attempt to wipe the indians from the face of the Earth; in fact most died from diseases (and no, at least as far as I know, the white settlers did not infect the indians with smallpox on purpose).

Note that the indians were never forced to live on reservations; they were and are free to join the "normal" community if they so desire.

You may say it's very unjust that they either accept small reservations or conform with the white man's Law (and in a way it is), but look at another angle: the rest of the americans were never given that choice.
 
One difference is that many native americans in the great plains were not farmers but hunter gatherers and were not prepared to live off the land by farming, because many were not a farming society.

A point to mention was the encroachment of american immigrants moving into the reservations because of resources found on the reservation. The american government would have liked this to stop however failed in that regard.

another point to mention is that many tribes in the great plains didnt understand the concept of owning land or the drawing of borders.
 
Actually, the ability to join the community varied from region to region. Many English colonies were intended to be white-only. Indians settled on the edges of the colonies and traded with them, but they weren't always treated good (plus they gained a reputation of being drunk and lawless). Other places tried to convert Indians and create cooperative communities of both.

For the most part, they were treated like the seperate nations they were. They would agree to treaties that marked a common border that they could both agree on. The Indians would then agree not to enter the other side's territory and the Americans would agree to the same thing. They were basically autonomous territories inside the United States.

However, either through congressional action, or in spite of it, white settlers would settle on Indian land. This caused conflict and wars. Both sides usually believed the best strategy was to kill everyone in a village, but white people were usually better at doing it. After a war ended, the Indians would be forced to abandon their land and move west to some other land and the cycle repeated. Sometimes this land would be owned by other tribes who would attack them.

Reservations were set up so Indians could live on this land without getting in the way of white people or other indians. Sometimes they voluntarily moved there, other times they were forcifully relocated. They were usually underfunded and people died of malnutrition, but it wasn't widespread or intentional death.

I don't think the United States intentionally killed Indians (except in war), but they did indirectly cause many indian deaths while trying to get them away from white people. Of course, later attempts to "civilize" the Indians did have some pretty cruel methods intended to destroy Indian culture, but not American Indians themselves.
 
REDY said:
I want to know some details about rights of Indians, American treating with them and why tribes ended. I am confused because Indian reservation looks little like Nazist concentration camp. What was difference?

The reservation system is simply an alotment of autonimous land where a native tribe governs themselves but with money and protection from the US government. They are still around today. They weren't concentration camps.

The problem was that the system relied on the native tribe farming their reservation. Many tribes were not farmers and had trouble adjusting and many starved early on.
 
Amerindians has been around for some time, it just never gained wide popularity. I prefer it as "Indians" is obviously confusing and to some even offensive and "Native Americans" is also confusing (technically anyone born in the United States of America or even anyone born in the Americas is a Native American).
 
Native American is an improper term. Anyone born in America is a Native American regardless of where their ancestors came from.

Amerindians is just another non-PC term.
 
Bugfatty300 said:
The reservation system is simply an alotment of autonimous land where a native tribe governs themselves but with money and protection from the US government. They are still around today. They weren't concentration camps.

The problem was that the system relied on the native tribe farming their reservation. Many tribes were not farmers and had trouble adjusting and many starved early on.

That's not entirely true (the second part, the first part is true). Reservations are on land that white people didn't want, which means they weren't good for farming in the first place. Also, funding was always short, so there were times where food was scarce and poverty high.
 
Thank you, I read all. Well offers to books are little hard because I dont speak English. (Or I speak English, but very badly and hardly), and Czech versions are rarely. I also have to read many another books because I am on the university so I havent time and mood. But what I read is adequate for me.

I have another questions about American history:
1)What is Alamo? I read its fort or something, but I still misunderstand...because it looks it has great influence in American history.

2)How were boarders enlarging for USA when Spanish or British arent there. I mean; United states (or British colonies) has amount of land which discovered, or they estalbished state (for example Florida) and after they discovered another amount of land, they founded new state? What was influental for estalbish new state?
 
Nobody said:
Whats with the word Amerindians? when did people start using this?

I don't know, but I don't know of any Indian who uses that word. We generally don't use it.

If we identify ourselves, usually it's tribe first, indian second.
 
REDY said:
Thank you, I read all. Well offers to books are little hard because I dont speak English. (Or I speak English, but very badly and hardly), and Czech versions are rarely. I also have to read many another books because I am on the university so I havent time and mood. But what I read is adequate for me.

I have another questions about American history:
1)What is Alamo? I read its fort or something, but I still misunderstand...because it looks it has great influence in American history.

The Alamo is more for Texas history than America as a whole (although it is important, since it led to war with Mexico). Basically, it was one of those "heroic last stands" that inspired other Texans (sort of like the Battle of Thermopolye for Greece). At this time, Texas was part of Mexico, but the Mexican government encouraged Americans to go there. They had certain rights guaranteed and didn't have to pay as many taxes (it might have been taxes in general, I can't remember). They weren't supposed to have slaves, but they brought them anyway.

The Mexican government decided to control Texas a little better, which annoyed the Americans living there, who probably wanted to join the United States anyway. To make the story short, they made a stand at a place called the Alamo, where they were wiped out. But this inspired other Texans who succeeded in defeating the Mexican army and gaining independence (the United States was afraid of war at this point, so they didn't accept Texas as a state. Later, they did accept Texas and a war broke out with Mexico, which the United States won and took more territory).

2)How were boarders enlarging for USA when Spanish or British arent there. I mean; United states (or British colonies) has amount of land which discovered, or they estalbished state (for example Florida) and after they discovered another amount of land, they founded new state? What was influental for estalbish new state?

In the early years, part of a colony felt that they weren't having their interests represented and would be better off with a local government instead. When William Penn founded Pennsylvania colony, the settlers in the south wanted their own government, which eventually became the independent state of Delaware. In New England, that happened all the time, as colonists would leave Massachussetts and declare themselves seperate (then they would probably apply for a charter from the King of England). Some were kicked out (Rhode Island was founded by people who were banished from Massachussetts Bay colony for saying bad things).

In the far west part of Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia, governments were slow to give representation. So it was decided, after the nation was formed, to make them seperate states (Kentucky, Tennesee, Mississippi, Alabama).

After that, things were a bit different. Basically, areas of land was sold by the Federal government in areas outside of the original states. If these areas got a certain number of people, they could become a state. Before that, they were just territories. Technically, places like Puerto Rico are still territories today, although they don't seem like they are in any hurry to become a state. Back then, much of the middle of America were territories for a long time (Texas started with enough people and places like California got big enough quickly to become a state, it was in the middle, like Colorado or Montana that grew slowly). Territories usually had their borders drawn by congress, which is why there are large, square shaped states in the middle of the United States.

That's about it. I think I rambled too much ;)
 
REDY said:
Thank you, I read all. Well offers to books are little hard because I dont speak English. (Or I speak English, but very badly and hardly), and Czech versions are rarely. I also have to read many another books because I am on the university so I havent time and mood. But what I read is adequate for me.

I have another questions about American history:
1)What is Alamo? I read its fort or something, but I still misunderstand...because it looks it has great influence in American history.

2)How were boarders enlarging for USA when Spanish or British arent there. I mean; United states (or British colonies) has amount of land which discovered, or they estalbished state (for example Florida) and after they discovered another amount of land, they founded new state? What was influental for estalbish new state?

1. edit - the posts above did a better job describing it.

2. The US was enlarged by war or by treaty. Louisiana was purchased from France. The area from California to Arizona was taken from Mexico in war. Alaska was purchased from Russia. The disputed Pacific northwest was divided up between Britain and the US by treaty.

After the first thirteen states, the rest of the US was organized into territories. A territory, when the population got large enough, would be allowed to become a state after it petitioned for statehood. Texas bypassed this and immediately became a state under the terms of the annexation mentioned above. Florida was Spanish territory turned over by treaty from Spain. It became a state later.

See below for maps of what territories were added when.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_regions_of_the_United_States
 
mexican war is controversial because the US provoked mexico into attacking them after the mexican governement denied selling the southwestern states for I think was $30 million. It is often see as a war of conquest.

The US built a fort in area that was considered disputed land. Mexicans felt this was on their land and soon attacked the fort. This war consisted of many important people who would later have an effect in AMerican History. Zachary Talyor, Grant, Lee...

Anyway the mexicans did not have much military and brough in Santa Ana back, who was previously exiled. In the end the Mexicans were defeated and "sold" the southwestern states for $15million. I could explain more in detail but that is a good brief summary.

The Alamo has symbolic meaning now. AS a few american men defeated X-amouunt of mexicans. Another reason why Texas did not become a state was because the north did not want another slave owing state. So they were divided on whether it should be a slave state or not which resulted in the delayed of annexation of Texas.

Do you know about the Spanish American War?

I never heard of Amerindians( at first I thought that was as specific tribe or something):crazyeye:


@turner

Are you native AMerican or partially Native American?
 
Israelite9191 said:
Amerindians has been around for some time, it just never gained wide popularity. I prefer it as "Indians" is obviously confusing and to some even offensive and "Native Americans" is also confusing (technically anyone born in the United States of America or even anyone born in the Americas is a Native American).

If you call them American Indians, that eliminates some of the confusion. The problem is that you then have to call people from India Indian Indians, which sounds silly.

Around here, American Indian and Native American are used equally in organization names, but Indian or American Indian is more used in conversation. Canada uses the term "First Nations." French Canadians apparently use the term Autochthone, and Aboriginal Americans is sometimes used. (Redskins is right out, and for some reason reds is also not used.) Amerind is a coined term that I remember from the 60s but never seems to have caught on, probably because it sounds artificial.

I tend to prefer American Indian, because Native American or Aboriginal American would also include the Inuit, who came over much later.
 
I general conversation I tend to follow bad habit and go with Native American, but on forums and in writing I prefer Amerindian as it is much simpler than the two-word phrases that are most commonly used, as well as having the advantage of the most precision. Also, if at all possible, I will always use the individual nation as opposed to Amerindian etc..

In regards to American Indian that is most definately not acceptable where I live. Given that Chicago, and in particular the West Rogers Park neighbourhood, has the largest Indian (ie India) community in the US and one of the largest ex-pat Indian communities throughotu the world, American Indian and Indian American are assumed to refer to Indians, not Amerindians. One of the many difficulties that comes with the more numerous advantages of the melting-pot society.

As for the Inuit, it is true that in general they came at a later date than those Amerindians living further south, but it is also true that the Inuit are part of the so-called cultural continuum of the Americas with many similarites being evident with other northern cultures such as the Haida and Tlingit.
 
Israelite9191 said:
As for the Inuit, it is true that in general they came at a later date than those Amerindians living further south, but it is also true that the Inuit are part of the so-called cultural continuum of the Americas with many similarites being evident with other northern cultures such as the Haida and Tlingit.

For some reason, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that one. The only simularities between that Inuit and the Tlingit/Haida are that they both live in Alaska. The Inuit are genetically different than the other Native Alaskan tribes. Well, they're closer to the Aleuts than they are the Indian tribes of Alaska. Culturally, they're far enough apart that there is little if any simularities between the two. The Tlingit/Haida reside mostly in the Alaskan Panhandle area, stretching down into British Columbia and up north aways beyone the panhandle. The Inuits were mostly up in the Artic Cirlce area. I'm sure they had contact with each other, the Tlingit/Haida were traders who ranged far and wide to trade.

Tlingit/Haida are part of the Athabascan tribes, which incidently include the Navaho and Apache tries as well.
 
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