Master of Destruction

[Patroklos]

As for similar feats, the Nazis burnt a great deal of books, but I think the closest approximation was the destruction of all but three Maya books by some Spanish Catholic missionary.

The Nazis destroyed a lot of books, but few if anything were the sole repository of the knowledge contained within. It is not comparable to the Great Library, as that knowledge disapeared forever. Even things like the destuction of Rotterdam doesn't compare, because it was not the only example of that typle of architecture and many examples still exist.

The only thing listed here is that is comparable in quality is the Mayan codex, but not comparible in quantity. I would say that the destuction of the orignial Jewish temple by the Roman's is comparible in quality, but again not in quantity.

 

[The Yankee]

Moderator Action: Belongs in World History. At least, so long as this thread is kept on topic. Moved.

Off topic spam also deleted.

 

[Plotinus]

Seriously, that's what you've been taught? I've always been taught that it was Caesar in 48BC.

Never heard of the controversy before I checked Wiki:

For once, Wikipedia has it right. No way was it Julius Caesar, and no way was it Theophilus (he destroyed the library of the Serapeum, which was a different library). The story about the caliph is obviously legendary; he is not the first person to whom the "all books that disagree with the scriptures are heretical, and all those that agree with them are superfluous" quote is attributed.

Basically, no-one knows who destroyed the Great Library, or when, or how. It was probably destroyed over a long period by many different forces.

Hm... but you should consider that the monasteries were the only centers of reading, writing, book reproduction and learning in general in Europe through most of the middle ages.

That is true of the early Middle Ages. In the later Middle Ages, that role was taken by (in rough order) the cathedral schools, the friaries, and the universities. There is no doubt that, overall, Christianity has encouraged learning far more than it has impeded it. Without Christianity, many peoples throughout the world would have remained illiterate for a lot longer, and learning would have been far less central to modern European culture - in particular, the ideal of free universal education would not have come about, or at least would have taken longer to arise (you can thank Alcuin of York and Ignatius Loyola for that...).

 

[cybrxkhan]

if we mean destruction of art, literature, and culture altogether... shouldn't the Cultural Revolution be close to the top at the least, then?

 

[Sharwood]

if we mean destruction of art, literature, and culture altogether... shouldn't the Cultural Revolution be close to the top at the least, then?

Damn good point. Probably the destruction of the Native American 'mounds' too, although the wouldn't qualify as literature.

 

[Tee Kay]

And the burning of the Mayan "books" by the colonial Spanish as well.

Oh, and the term vandals is insulting to the historical Vandals, who are quite civilised people by the standards of the time.

 

[Sharwood]

I mentioned the Mayan books earlier, tk.

 

[Dachs]

I think it was a Byzantine Emperor, though someone would have to confirm that.

Slander!

Oh, and the term vandals is insulting to the historical Vandals, who are quite civilised people by the standards of the time.

Compared to whom? We're talking about the same Vandals that laid waste to Hispania and Aquitaine, slaughtered and absorbed the Alani, who maintained their entire state in North Africa by piracy, sacked Rome (while the city wasn't burned, they got some serious spoils), and who slaughtered the Zacynthian hostages, hacked them to pieces, and dropped said pieces in the sea...right?

 

[Sharwood]

All that may be bad, but it is in no way comparable to spray painting some idiotic logo on buildings around town. That's just monstrous.

 

[sydhe]

Since Theon was director of the Library of Alexandria in 391 AD when Theodosius ordered it closed (via Theophilus), it's safe to say there was a Library for him to be director of. That would seem to eliminate Julius Caesar and Aurelian as the culprits.

 

[sydhe]

Oh, and Plotinus is right about Theophilus not actually destroying the Library of Alexandria.

 

[Tee Kay]

Compared to whom? We're talking about the same Vandals that laid waste to Hispania and Aquitaine, slaughtered and absorbed the Alani, who maintained their entire state in North Africa by piracy, sacked Rome (while the city wasn't burned, they got some serious spoils), and who slaughtered the Zacynthian hostages, hacked them to pieces, and dropped said pieces in the sea...right?

Yeah, like the Romans didn't do all of those things at one time or another. Except for piracy, but what the Vandals did wasn't as much piracy as state-sponsered naval campaigns.

The "sacking" of Rome was done in a relatively sedate manner. In fact, if what we know from historians are accurate, then the sack was many times more peaceful and orderly than, say, another sack by a later generation.

 

[Dachs]

Yeah, like the Romans didn't do all of those things at one time or another. Except for piracy, but what the Vandals did wasn't as much piracy as state-sponsered naval campaigns.

When was the last time the Romans sacked their own provinces? And okay, so we'll redefine the Vandal pirating as "privateering". It's still not cricket.

The "sacking" of Rome was done in a relatively sedate manner. In fact, if what we know from historians are accurate, then the sack was many times more peaceful and orderly than, say, another sack by a later generation.

We have an apocryphal story of "how amazing Leo I is" (sound familiar? Turns out the Attila the Hun story isn't really true either) written by one of Leo I's cronies, St. Prosper, against the report of Victor Vitensis of multitudes of slaves ending up in Africa post-sack and a bit in Procopius' Vandalic War recording the burning of at least one church. Yes, the 1527 sack of Rome was more violent and brutal, but that is neither here nor there, since your point was that the Vandals were 'quite civilized people by the standards of the time".

 

[Tee Kay]

When was the last time the Romans sacked their own provinces? And okay, so we'll redefine the Vandal pirating as "privateering". It's still not cricket.

We have an apocryphal story of "how amazing Leo I is" (sound familiar? Turns out the Attila the Hun story isn't really true either) written by one of Leo I's cronies, St. Prosper, against the report of Victor Vitensis of multitudes of slaves ending up in Africa post-sack and a bit in Procopius' Vandalic War recording the burning of at least one church. Yes, the 1527 sack of Rome was more violent and brutal, but that is neither here nor there, since your point was that the Vandals were 'quite civilized people by the standards of the time".

Maybe I used the wrong example (regard the 1527 Sack), but the behaviour of the Vandals were indeed "normal" for their time. The Sack of Rome did not cause massive depopulation or destruction in the city. The burning of a couple of churches in Rome does not even compare with the wholesale destruction of churches and killing of Christians by, say, the Sassanids when they invaded Palestine. Also I'm not aware of a time the Vandals sacked one of their own provinces.

 

[zjl56]

Ironic that Alexander helped establish the Great Library yet he and his troops were responsible for burning another one of histories great repositories, the Imperial Persian Library.

 

[Sharwood]

Ironic that Alexander helped establish the Great Library yet he and his troops were responsible for burning another one of histories great repositories, the Imperial Persian Library.

Knowing Alexander, I'd think he would have removed the books first.

 

[Plotinus]

Alexander didn't help to set up the Great Library. That was done by Ptolemy I in the early third century BC.

 

[Princeps]

Maybe the library was just demolished due to civil reasons and the information was relocated to different libraries.

 

[Sharwood]

Maybe the library was just demolished due to civil reasons and the information was relocated to different libraries.

If it was, then those libraries are pretty damn well hidden, since none have ever been found.

This does remind me of the story of the French diplomat who found complete editions of Livy's History of Rome in Constantinople, only to be separated from the guy he was buying them from due to a fire. Knowledge is very precious, and can disappear in an instant.

 

[Princeps]

If it was, then those libraries are pretty damn well hidden, since none have ever been found.

How do we know what books the library contained?