[MoO] Master of Orion 2 unofficial patch

[Rocco.40]

Another rant against AI surrendering. In a current game it just happend that the Klackon surrendered to the Sakkra. The Klackons had a score in the History graph that was around twice as much as that of the Sakkra.

Only this time I'm actually somewhat happy with this turn of events; the Klackons were the only race that my spies had trouble with, and the Sakkra had no new techs for a while...

In next version of patch, we will have exposed the turn delay for AI surrenders.
Currently AI's are prohibited from surrendering before turn 150.
With this value configurable, you can set it for example to t500 or t1000 and AI won't surrender before such turn. Should solve some woes..

 

[Tech_150]

This is good news!

 

[neilkaz]

In next version of patch, we will have exposed the turn delay for AI surrenders.
Currently AI's are prohibited from surrendering before turn 150.
With this value configurable, you can set it for example to t500 or t1000 and AI won't surrender before such turn. Should solve some woes..

Great as AI surrender is idiocy! I turn it off in any game that I can.

 

[LarkinVB]

I have problems patching my GOG version. It is 1.3.1 and after copying patch 1.5 files into the games folder and overwriting orion2.exe, the game won't start. I can see the videos but than it does exit. Any help available ?

EDIT: My bad, I did try to patch the german version.

 

[Tech_150]

Some settings from a current game:

quantum_detonator_explode_chance = 4; # default: 6
ANTARAN_FLEET_RATES Resource_Increment_Calculation_Frequency = 10; # default: 20
ANTARAN_FLEET_RATES Attack_Frequency_Determinant = 3; # default: 200
ANTARAN_FLEET_RATES Antaran_Cease_of_Attacks_Coefficient = 3; # default: 2
ANTARAN_FLEET_RATES Impossible_Offensive_Resource_Multiplier = 400; # default: 200
ANTARAN_FLEET_RATES Impossible_Defensive_Resource_Multiplier = 400; # default: 200

I had already played many games with the low value for Attack_Frequency_Determinant, when I got surprised at what just halving Resource_Increment_Calculation_Frequency did; Antaran battleships way before turn 200 (average tech start). Sometimes battlehips even appear before cruisers do.

I love capturing Antaran ships. In some games, I started to collect them and pair them up with the Avenger at Orion, just to show off.

My current collection at turn 230 :

I guess this is the result of the doubled value for Impossible_Offensive_Resource_Multiplier?

But those 12 (extra) BHGs are a bit insane...? Shouldn't these be Interceptors like with the fixed defensive Titan(s) at Antares?

 

[Rocco.40]

But those 12 (extra) BHGs are a bit insane...? Shouldn't these be Interceptors like with the fixed defensive Titan(s) at Antares?

While I agree the design is weird and not consistent with defensive Titan, which has 6 interceptors, this is in fact the original design.
The Strategy Guide even has a picture of it with those 12 BHG's. Still, 12 interceptors would indeed make more sense.

 

[Tech_150]

The images I found when googling for comparision usually had the last slot empty, so I guess they showed unfixed defensive titans. I wasn't even fully aware that there's a real difference between offensive and defensive Antaran designs before fiddling with those settings.

And it's been a very long time (last millenium?) since I last had an offensive Harbinger appearing in a game!

It was a great WTH?!? moment when this patched Harbinger showed off its capability to fire those BHGs individually, the great equalizer being that BHGed ships cannot be raided anymore *sigh of relief*.

Of course, right after the Harbinger did its act, it changed ownership.

The Antarans must have some really advanced megafluxers to cramp all this stuff into a single titan.

 

[Rocco.40]

those Antarans are masters of miniaturization!

and ofc i can see you like to capture those babies by the quantum detonator change to 30% explode chance

 

[Tech_150]

And ofc you can deduce what's happend with most of the frigates I captured.

The 50% explode chance is just too annoying. Defending against the Antarans in the early turns, only to have them ignore me all too often when I'm finally able to capture them, is just impolite. And cowardly blowing up ships that rightfully belong to my empire is even more rude! Oh, well...

Then Orion's just there for the prestige and to fill in the (xeno-)technological gaps.

Having the game spawn offensive Harbingers reasonalby soon might also be a good incentive for a few /noorion runs. Just don't waste picks for the Lucky trait...

A pity it's not possible to capture and keep defensive Antaran vessels. Attacking Antares with a telepathic race, capture a few ships and let them retreat-> no prize.

Hmm, being a crazy completionist can cause weird ways of playing this game...

 

[Tech_150]

I'll provide another save. It's a showcase of weird homeworld environments that sometimes happens.

Ofc I fiddled around with custom mapgen settings (modified MAP_***.CFG), so the screw up might be on my part, but I don't understand why some homeworlds get such "interesting" environments, so it might as well be a bug?

Draconis|Terran|OK
Nazin|Terran|OK
Sssla|Ocean|OK
Trilar|Ocean|OK
Cryslon|Gaia|
Fieras|Radiated|
Kholdan|Swamp|
Mentar|Desert|

Just a guess, but it seems to happen when I have

gal_age_to_star_class black_hole = 0 0 0;

in my config (I paid attention so that the remaining gal_age_to_star_class items still add up to 100; was trying to see if this indeed nets the same result as mapgen /nobh = 1;).

If it's of any help, I can also provide my individual config files instead of the whole EXTRACT.CFG dump.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Then Orion's just there for the prestige and to fill in the (xeno-)technological gaps.

Reading this reminds me of something which annoys me always when going for the complete pack of "xeno-techs":

Particle Beams and Death Rays are nice toys, but they have one caveat - missing miniaturization. I'm not arguing for making them miniaturize with hyper tech (would be way overpowered), but I don't like the fact that the game uses them in autodesigned star defense facilities like the ground battery or starbases. Not sure if I'm the only one; if a vast majority of players feels that way, would it possible to modify the templete for the autodesign to avoid this? Even better would be enabling Manual design for starbases, but I assume thats just not possible.

 

[Tech_150]

Particle Beams and Death Rays are nice toys, but they have one caveat - missing miniaturization. I'm not arguing for making them miniaturize with hyper tech (would be way overpowered), but I don't like the fact that the game uses them in autodesigned star defense facilities like the ground battery or starbases.

Not exactly what you're looking for, but the current patch lets you customise the guaranteed xeno tech reward for liberating Orion; so you could choose Xentronium armor if you're having trouble capturing Antarans, or Reflection Field or BHG as they're harder to capture (needs Battleship or Titan respectively). Ofc, starting with Battleships, you're risking to get Death Rays when scrapping.

Particle Beams aren't that bad, because Disruptors and up still count as better for offensive weaponry in planetary defenses. EDIT: And when you get PB from a captured Antaran Frigate, which can happen quite early, it can take a while until weapons with comparable firepower are miniaturized so much as to make PBs irrelevant. And I also love the sound of those things!

While I can follow your train of thought - been there, too! - usually (as in not not always), when you're capable to either capture Antarans or defeating the Guardian, in my experience planetary defenses are more of a gimmick (or a pain for us completionists) than really there as effective defense. I usually defend with ships. Having say 5 Hv Disruptors or some lower amount of Death Rays in a planetary defense hardly makes a difference if there're also some player designed warships present.

 

[Rocco.40]

I'll provide another save. It's a showcase of weird homeworld environments that sometimes happens.

Ofc I fiddled around with custom mapgen settings (modified MAP_***.CFG), so the screw up might be on my part, but I don't understand why some homeworlds get such "interesting" environments, so it might as well be a bug?

Just a guess, but it seems to happen when I have
gal_age_to_star_class black_hole = 0 0 0;

in my config (I paid attention so that the remaining gal_age_to_star_class items still add up to 100; was trying to see if this indeed nets the same result as mapgen /nobh = 1;).

If it's of any help, I can also provide my individual config files instead of the whole EXTRACT.CFG dump.

Weird and I especially feel sorry for the Mrrshan on their Radiated world in your save!
I get similar weird HW's, when running your config, in about 1 every 4/5 generated galaxies.
Haven't done much further testing on it, but when modding the game there's many ways to break it ofc.
It could be due to that black hole setting or in combination with the mapgen settings.
Also the orbit_to_climate_group 1/2/2/2/3 setting (from Orange map) could be related, dunno, would need more testing.

 

[Tech_150]

I get similar weird HW's, when running your config, in about 1 every 4/5 generated galaxies.
Haven't done much further testing on it, but when modding the game there's many ways to break it ofc.
It could be due to that black hole setting or in combination with the mapgen settings.
Also the orbit_to_climate_group 1/2/2/2/3 setting (from Orange map) could be related, dunno, would need more testing.

Well, I'm glad that it's a reproducible thing, so thanks for testing and confirming, Rocco.

Never give users an option to bombard a piece of software with all kinds of (expected and especially unexpected) input data without anticipating weird stuff to happen!

From experience, the "mapgen /" settings (the ones that are inherited from 1.40) and "mapgen -" settings don't clash. The latter just supersede the former. I could also reliably remove asteroid belts and gas giants (got the hint by comparing OR2 with GM3) without any hickups, the only exception being Orion if present, which is sad but expected.

Conclusion so far: To get rid of BHs, just go the [traditional|conservative] route of mapgen /nowh = 1; and leave gal_age_to_star_class black_hole alone. Time's better spent by let's say playing OC3...?

 

[Rocco.40]

Well, I'm glad that it's a reproducible thing, so thanks for testing and confirming, Rocco.

Conclusion so far: To get rid of BHs, just go the [traditional|conservative] route of mapgen /nowh = 1; and leave gal_age_to_star_class black_hole alone. Time's better spent by let's say playing OC3...?

we found that the problem is actually caused because the mapmod in your config creates too many planets for a Huge galaxy. A galaxy can handle at most 250 planets (with all current moo2 versions) and if more planets are dictated by mapgen tables, then the game starts cutting planets until that 250 number is reached, sadly malforming the homeworlds in the process from time to time. So, your current mapmod works fine in a small, medium and large galaxies, but not in clusters and huge ones.

more specifically, you need to lower the values in the table class_to_num_satellites random0-9 keeping in mind that 250/71=~3.5 planets per system if you want the mapmod to work correctly in a huge galaxy.

note: delayed playing OC3 in the process

 

[Rocco.40]

HERE IS 1.50.4 !!!
A fresh release with exciting new stuff, like the ability to create more lists for the build queue, fixed Defensive Fire, Unbuy function, new configs, "improved AI ships" is back in an improved form, and a sh*tlôåd of bugfixes of course!
Check also the amazing coverart on our new manual, courtesy of SirTiefling:
MANUAL_150.PDF


1.50.4 Changelog
===========

Game changes:
- Monster bug fixed, no combat rollbacks when fighting identical monsters.
- Advanced damage control is removed from tree for cyber races.
- Initiative rule now takes BA differences below +10 into account.
- Ships tied by initiative are now sorted by crew experience.
- "Mark Block Stack Size Exceeded" crash in races screen fixed.
- Ship captured by shuttles when rotating will not cause desync in network games.
- Super-fast combat mode (Z) now takes ship explosions into account.
- PD and Spatial range is now calculated correctly midflight.
- Fixed discrepancy between targeting and damaging ranges for spherical weapons.
- Stasis disables wide area jammer, warp dissipator, scout lab.
- Ship under stasis now ceases to be affected by tractors and BHGs.
- Ship under stasis now ceases to affect others by tractors, BHGs or stasis.
- Fixed a number of bugs in defensive fire.
- All retreats now happen after all ships have recharged weapons.
- Repaired warp dissipator will now prevent retreats ordered on previous turn.
- Missile alerts will now be triggered by inplace rotations.
- Correct turn cost when missile alert is on and ship is hit while turning.
- Ship with inertial nullifier does not pull missiles when rotating.
- Fighters chasing missiles with depleted moves now will move at the end of turn.
- Ordnance bonus now works for fighters.
- Non-TWF ships now update at the end of TWF turn.
- Non-TWF ships do not perform defensive fire in TWF turn.
- Fixed bug which allowed to capture satellite sometimes.
- Ship capture removes wait and done states.
- Energy Absorber's stored damage won't overflow now.
- Different cloaks now work correctly if put on a ship together.
- Marines above ship capacity will now be spaced after ship capture.
- Colonies with and without Barracks now have the same marines/armor limits.
- The last (max) marine and armor units of a Subterranean colony will no longer die.
- Corrected race pick costs sync when loading net game (1.50.2 bug).
- Fixed broken cloaking device still being able to cloak (1.50.3 bug).
- Fixed phasing cloak recloaking even with zero counter (1.50.3 bug).

Interface changes:
- Advanced build list with the ability to apply on all colonies.
- Undo buy action by clicking buy button again.
- Fixed most build queue bugs including repeat build cheat.
- Colony Base button disappearance trigger corrected.
- Disabled weapon slots will be colored red even if spent (used to be yellow).
- In super fast combat mode (Z) boarding messages are skipped now.
- Mapgen -tfixedhw will now generate lowg Arid planets for low-G races.
- Restored classic behavior for stellar, it now fires the whole slot at once.
- Added confirm_battle_message_timeout for "X attacks Y at Z" popups.
- Fixes and improvements in New Game screen help.
- Fixed broken command summary display in main screen (1.50.3 bug).
- Fixed excessive orbital bombardment death tolls (1.50.3 bug).
- Fixed stall when refitting a ship with queue full (1.50.2 bug).

Config parameters:
- Added ai_surrender_delay, specify the turn after which AI can surrender.
- Added stars_in_galaxy table which sets amount of stars per galaxy size.
- Added vdc_mode which enables VDC compatibility patches. #
- Added planet_damper, enables damper field for planetary defenses. #
- Added disable_vsync to speed up screen updates.
- Added tech_mini, per-tech miniaturization group table.
- Added several growth related parameters (growth formula, housing, cloners).
- Added separate android costs to misc_costs table.
- Added trade_goods_ratio to control trade goods effectiveness.
- Added systems_repair_percent to control repair rate for internal systems.
- Added defensive_fire, allows to disable defensive fire altogether.
- Added spatial_per_size_class_damage, makes spatial damage larger ships more.
- Added initial_buildings, used for colony initialization.
- Added broken_engine_explodes to disable explosions for testing.
- Added configs aiships, balance and map_150, expanding gameplay options.
- Setting damper_kill_ratio to 0 now prevents the use of transporters against damper.
- Setting initial phasing cloak counter to 0 now means no phasing cloak state at all.
- Renamed several config parameters and labels.
- Note that you might need to adjust your own custom configs!!

@ TECH_150, here is your config back (including the issue of too many planets) that should work with 1.50.4:
(enhanced it somewhat and with funky header also)

 

[Tech_150]

we found that the problem is actually caused because the mapmod in your config creates too many planets for a Huge galaxy. A galaxy can handle at most 250 planets (with all current moo2 versions) and if more planets are dictated by mapgen tables, then the game starts cutting planets until that 250 number is reached, sadly malforming the homeworlds in the process from time to time. So, your current mapmod works fine in a small, medium and large galaxies, but not in clusters and huge ones.

Sounds like a reasonable explanation, but note that class_to_num_satellites is completely unchanged compared to MAP_OR2...

more specifically, you need to lower the values in the table class_to_num_satellites random0-9 keeping in mind that 250/71=~3.5 planets per system if you want the mapmod to work correctly in a huge galaxy.

...and I've played lots of games with MAP_OR2 + huge galaxy + 5 planets per home system already without malformed homeworlds showing up.

ADDENDUM: But then again I also had mapgen -tfixedhw = 1; almost always, but not in this config. Ah, all of this can be so

The other differences to MAP_OR2 are

• BH turned to brown stars (not exactly, but gal_age_to_star_class black_hole set to 0 and added the diff to gal_age_to_star_class brown)
• no asteroid belts or gas giants - which I think also count as planets, so should not make any difference to the total amount? (orbit_to_satellite_type all set to 3)
• more minerals per planet, no ultra-poor planets (class_to_mineral random[089] +1)
• more stranded heroes (planet_specials_chance no_special -10 and planet_specials_chance hero +10)
• standard ultra-rich (PLANET_PRODUCTION Ultra_Rich +1)

I'm currently a bit burned out with playing MOO2 (yes, it happens), but now that you made me aware of the 250 planet issue, I'm sure I'll try out what'll happen if I modded MAP_GM3 to say MAP_GM5...

note: delayed playing OC3 in the process

Oh noes...! Ah okay, so 1.50.4 also might have had something to do with that.

 

[Colon]

Few quick suggestions, no idea if feasible:

- You know when colonies name change when they're specialised? Would be nice if this would also show in the colonies screen, even if with a single letter.
- Allow a negative modifier for empire size (# planets or pops), so that small empires can keep up with big ones in research.
- In the graphs screen, replace the buildings graph with a production graph, like in MOO1. Add a planets graphs while at it.

 

[Colon]

To be clear, when you lower the Attack_Frequency_Determinant of Antarans, they should appear less often, right?

 

[Rocco.40]

- You know when colonies name change when they're specialised? Would be nice if this would also show in the colonies screen, even if with a single letter.

At some point we might add to the colonies management screen things like stored production and/or detailed growth figures.
Whats the added value of showing specialisation name there?

- Allow a negative modifier for empire size (# planets or pops), so that small empires can keep up with big ones in research.

You can use the cheat MENLO to grab an extra tech or two if you are behind.

- In the graphs screen, replace the buildings graph with a production graph, like in MOO1. Add a planets graphs while at it.

This is not on our list of things to do atm, to revisit the graphs.

To be clear, when you lower the Attack_Frequency_Determinant of Antarans, they should appear less often, right?

The Attack_Frequency_Determinant specifies the range for a random roll number, and the lower this roll the higher the chance that an Antaran attack will happen.