Master Siegesmith

[Valkrionn]

The fact that you can't get that combination any other way is why I like it.

 

[Valkrionn]

Missed your edit, here...

Anyways, my general point here. Make Grapeshot and Canister shot have the same effect

• more collateral damage
• more collateral targets
• LESS city attack. It's a field weapon

Make Canister shot a better version of it. Perhaps requiring Machinery (for the manufacturing) or simply a higher cost.

I could probably do that. I just like the idea of using an explosive shell to attack a city, raining lead down on the enemy. Though it would be even more effective on the field... Maybe a penalty for grapeshot, but neither a bonus or penalty for Canister?


Here's the new version:

1. Grapeshot
   • UnitClass Cannon-only
   • 2 extra Collateral Targets.
   • +15% vs Mounted and Melee
   • -1 Range
   • -25% City Attack
   • -50% Bombard rate.
   • 60 Gold
2. Canister Shot
   • UnitClass Cannon-only
   • 2 extra Collateral Targets.
   • +40% Collateral Damage.
   • +25% vs Mounted and Melee
   • +1
   • Requires Gunpowder
   • 100 Gold

 

[Milaga]

Since all cannon shots will require blasting powder anyway to make the cannon why not add an Iron Working tech to the cannister shot. to make it take a few more to get. In most of my games I never get blasting before iron, but ya never know ...

 

[Valkrionn]

Woops... Thought I forgot something there. Blasting Powder already requires Iron Working... Think Machinery would work.

 

[far_wanderer]

Amphibious Assault

• Water Walking (coastal tiles only)

I don't see anything wrong with this by itself, but if you do it for siege weapons you should really make a similar option for other lizardmen unit types too. It seems kind of silly if they can float giant siege weapons out on the water and operate them, but standard troops still can't swim. If you don't feel that's balanced for normal units, it probably shouldn't be an option for siege units.

 

[Valkrionn]

I was actually thinking about allowing the lizards access to a spell with combat 5, that grants waterwalking for 5 turns..... If they are still in the water when that time runs out, they die. The spell can only be cast every 8-10 turns. A swamp-dwelling lizard should be able to swim.

 

[WarKirby]

Missed your edit, here...



I could probably do that. I just like the idea of using an explosive shell to attack a city, raining lead down on the enemy. Though it would be even more effective on the field... Maybe a penalty for grapeshot, but neither a bonus or penalty for Canister?

The problem is though, with the very nature of using smaller projectiles, you miss out on a lot of penetration power. In cities, when it starts raining little lead balls, people would hide inside houses, or under tables.

Oh, also, -25% city attack for the grapeshot is pitiful. Remember that siege weapons get something like +300% city attack bonus.

I'd say make grapeshot a -200% city attack, and canister shot -100%

The requirement of gunpowder for canister shot seems a bit silly. You need the Blasting Powder tech to make cannons in any case. Unless you meant the gunpowder resource? But even still, cannons should require gunpowder, so basing a cannon promo on it seems odd.

I think Machinery, Iron Working, or something of that nature, is best for an additional prereq. Although I have a feeling that Blasting Powder already requires iron working. Am I wrong?

 

[Valkrionn]

The problem is though, with the very nature of using smaller projectiles, you miss out on a lot of penetration power. In cities, when it starts raining little lead balls, people would hide inside houses, or under tables.

Oh, also, -25% city attack for the grapeshot is pitiful. Remember that siege weapons get something like +300% city attack bonus.

I'd say make grapeshot a -200% city attack, and canister shot -100%

The requirement of gunpowder for canister shot seems a bit silly. You need the Blasting Powder tech to make cannons in any case. Unless you meant the gunpowder resource? But even still, cannons should require gunpowder, so basing a cannon promo on it seems odd.

I think Machinery, Iron Working, or something of that nature, is best for an additional prereq. Although I have a feeling that Blasting Powder already requires iron working. Am I wrong?

I'd give it a larger negative, but remember, Mechanos siege weapons get NO city attack bonus. They're generally a bit stronger though, so maybe a 50% rather than 25... and possibly an autoacquire promotion for everyone but Mechanos, giving another -150%.

It's the gunpowder resource, which is there because originally it didn't require cannons. Then I added Explosive shot for civs without cannons... Larger bonuses, but catapult only. Iron Working IS required for Blasting Powder, so I set it to Machinery already... Should be three posts up.

 

[WarKirby]

I'd give it a larger negative, but remember, Mechanos siege weapons get NO city attack bonus. They're generally a bit stronger though, so maybe a 50% rather than 25... and possibly an autoacquire promotion for everyone but Mechanos, giving another -150%.

This could be problematic. If they're working on a different system from everyone else, they'll need to have their own alternative promotions, and be blocked from some of these. Otherwise, it just doesn't work.

I'd lean in favour of standardising things though, personally. I don't think siege weapons need to be so useless in the field as they are now. Increasing base strength of all siege weapons, and severely reducing the city attack bonuses to reasonable levels, seems like a good idea to me.

 

[Valkrionn]

I'd rather not do that, personally. Catapults are 1 300% city attack units.. the Mechanos Organ Gun is 3. It's just so the refined mana bonus doesn't outright break them... Can still get just as strong, but you need 3x the mana.

Also, I don't see which of these would need to be changed? None of them have a bonus to city attack, and only one has a negative, which can be worked around quite easily.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

But honestly, would a canon shoting canister be capable of city attack at all?
I meen, even a hovel could hide you from it as long as it has sturdey walls made of mud brick or something.
I sugjest making it so that both the promotions simply disable the ability to attack cities.

 

[far_wanderer]

I was actually thinking about allowing the lizards access to a spell with combat 5, that grants waterwalking for 5 turns..... If they are still in the water when that time runs out, they die. The spell can only be cast every 8-10 turns. A swamp-dwelling lizard should be able to swim.

That's a good idea. The turn limit is a good way to do it, especially as I just attempted to do a little modding to test out a coastal promotion and found that the field that blocks ocean travel is available on units, not promotions. Why combat 5, though? That's a bit high to go from can't swim to awesome swim. You could make it scale, one turn for each level of combat.

 

[Valkrionn]

But honestly, would a canon shoting canister be capable of city attack at all?
I meen, even a hovel could hide you from it as long as it has sturdey walls made of mud brick or something.
I sugjest making it so that both the promotions simply disable the ability to attack cities.

That would really depend on the size of the shot. A 24lber, or better yet 36, would be able to deliver a canister full of cannon balls. Wouldn't be very maneuverable, but hey, it sure as hell would take out the city.

That's a good idea. The turn limit is a good way to do it, especially as I just attempted to do a little modding to test out a coastal promotion and found that the field that blocks ocean travel is available on units, not promotions. Why combat 5, though? That's a bit high to go from can't swim to awesome swim. You could make it scale, one turn for each level of combat.

I like that idea..... Going to have to see if I can set promotion duration via python. If not I may just end up making 5 of them. Won't be visible in the pedia anyway so it would work.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

That would really depend on the size of the shot. A 24lber, or better yet 36, would be able to deliver a canister full of cannon balls. Wouldn't be very maneuverable, but hey, it sure as hell would take out the city.

Why not throw in the Schwerer_Gustav while you are at it?

Also, for canons, have you considered giving them Caliber based promotions?
Higher calibers are beter at bombardments and destroying walls, but smaller ones have a beter firing speed (represented by sheer combat power).

 

[Valkrionn]

Eh. My examples were possible back in the 1600s. The newer guns could do much better, but they're also much more advanced.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I know, hence the lower part of the post.

 

[Valkrionn]

Woops, missed that entirely.

I have, but don't think I will... Mostly because, as you said, both high and low calibers have a place. I didn't want something relatively easy like that for the master building, and you can't just do a caliber 1-5 with it either.