Math02: 100K with limited cities

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

lurker's comment: Of course, with limited cities, you want to make the most of every square in your territory, and avoid nuisance overlaps. However I wouldn't overlook the fact that, even then, you'll only need 13 workable tiles per city, which means every one of them can spare 8 of its natural fat X to the others through overlap. My focus would certainly be on getting the most out of hills, BG and FP tiles, which provide a little plus when compared to those standard grass, plains and desert tiles for which you will lose nothing when settling on.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Beorn said it well. For this game, a few overlaps will have no effect - missing good terrain will.

 

[Mathias]

Thank you, Beorn. You made my point so clear, that I don't even have to post it.

It is too early to build another settler in Madrid. I don't like dropping to size 2, let alone size 1 for any length of time, as it hurts our economy. Try to time settler builds to within one turn of growth to size 5. The second settler out is a normal exception. Instead of building a third settler, build temple or granary. We can finish a temple in 4 turns, then build granary in 8 turns if we disband a warrior, completing the granary one turn before growth to size 5. Alternatively, we can short-rush a granary by rushing barracks when we have 20 shields in the box (in 2 turns) then switch to granary. I think short-rushing the granary is best. We would end up only one turn behind in growth, but could get the third settler out sooner.

As for the other cities, we do want to build temples early. Warrior-Worker-Temple or Worker-Temple for the first three or four cites. Temple first for the rest.

Turn order same as signup if it works. Turnsets don't need to be strictly 10 turns. Just find a good stopping point for the hand-off, but try to avoid playing more than 15 turns.

 

[Methos]

Pre-Turn: Switch Madrid to Temple.

2510 BC

Research Writing>Code of Laws (100%)

2470 BC: Seville founded, begins Warrior. Warrior to the east spots Gems.

IT: Madrid grows.

2430 BC

IT: Madrid Temple>Barracks. Barselona Worker>Temple.

2390 BC: Worker begins road near Barselona. New worker stacks with other worker.

2350 BC: New worker begins mine.

Note: Ottomans learned Mysticism.

IT: Seville Warrior>Worker.

2310 BC

2270 BC

2230 BC: Madrid whips the Barracks, than switches to Granary. Granary will be done in 4, growth in 5.

2190 BC

2150 BC

Note: Madrid needs MM as its going to waste shields.

Here's a couple screenies:

 

[Mathias]

I meant short-rush the granary before building the temple. Zero shields would have been wasted in that case. I'll look at the save and comment more later.

 

[pindicator]

Got it. Will play later tonight.

 

[Methos]

I meant short-rush the granary before building the temple. Zero shields would have been wasted in that case. I'll look at the save and comment more later.

Whoops, sorry about that. I thought the order was temple than granary.

Due to both the bg and all our neighbors poking around I built warrior>worker in Seville.

 

[Methos]

Just in case no one else has it or has seen it I thought I would post Sir Pleb's 20k calculator that is located in this thread. In post #6 of that thread you'll find AlanH's version of a 20k calculator. I figure we can use these to keep track of our cities culture. I'm not very familiar with Sir Pleb's but with AlanH's you can see what your culture will be at specific dates plus you can add in your anarchy periods.

Hope this is helpful. I've already started one for Madrid.

 

[Mathias]

I prefer to do the math myself. It isn't hard, and exact dates aren't really needed.

 

[pindicator]

Okay, here goes. You really gotta pity the territory that the Ottomans and Mayans got. I'd be tempted to reset with a position like that.

Inherited Turn -- Everything seems to be in order. I don't follow the MM note on Madrid. Unless you meant for me to disband the warrior and pull the granary in a turn earlier, but that hardly seems worth it -- there's no other way to effectively MM. So I press enter and throw caution to the wind. I figure that keeping the Mayans on their puny island is better than trading for Mysticism.

2110BC
America and Korea now have The Wheel.
IBT
Madrid: Granary->Warrior
Seville: Worker->Temple

2070BC
Remember one of those cardinal rules, and turn on Emphasize Production for all city governors.

2030BC
Switch Madrid to a spear. Spear will take one extra turn than a warrior and with less shields wasted (3 opposed to 5). After finishing that, the settler will finish with growth to 5. Madrid can grow every three turns with micro. Once we get two more BGs mined, Madrid can hit 10spt at size 5.
Slider goes to 1.8.1 to keep Madrid from rioting and because we won't be able to keep up the deficit before CoL comes in.

1990BC
IBT
Madrid: Spear->Settler

1950BC
Sliders to 1.9.0
IBT
Barcelona: Temple->Warrior

1910BC
Sliders to 1.8.1 to prevent Madrid from rioting

1830BC
IBT
Madrid: Settler->Spear.

1790BC
IBT
Barcelona: Warrior->Granary. Just a holder; worker is a thought here, as it would complete with growth.

1750BC
Slider to 2.7.1

That's about it. CoL is due in next turn; I've already adjusted the sliders to minimize spillage. Nobody has picked up writing yet. Our curraghs have completed their sweep and we don't have any obvious location for the other continent.

Me building spears was just me being lazy -- they built in three so even though Madrid is wasting shields on them I don't have to worry about microing the town for the settler growth (it's a tidy 3 for spear, grow, 3 for settler, grow -- rinse, lather, repeat). Feel free to change that as I'm sure there's a better way but it's late and I'm too tired to think about it.

The current settler pair is just south of Seville. I had them envisioned heading north to the plains marked by Methias in his dotmap, as that seemed to be where popular opinion inclined.

Note that the Koreans have settled a town a little closer to our desired lands. I don't think they'll beat us to any of our spots, just something to keep an eye on.

Here are the goods:

 

[Obormot]

As i understand it, it is my turn now.
I'll play today in the evening (about 7hours later).

I don't think that building spears is a good idea, especially regular spears. I find that defensive units are usually useless in a non AW game. I think that we should build a few settlers in a row in Madrid, let the population drop a bit and then start a library prebuild (I'll start researching Literature after Philosophy. By the time the library is complete the population will be back to ~5 again and we can continue building settlers. We should also start library prebuilds in other cities, so that we get extra culture from libraries ASAP.

Another thing is that we have to time the GA perfectly. We could launch it by building the Colossus and the Oracle. Anyone has an idea at what date do the AI usually complete these wonders on monarch?

 

[MeteorPunch]

I'm agreeing with what Obormot said. We need to get our cities up, making madrid a 4-6 turn settler factory would be the way to go.

 

[Mathias]

Please do not stack workers.

I looked at several of my saves, and see the Oracle being built aroud 600-800 BC in most of them.

My thoughts on Madrid: Switch to curragh (complete in 1 turn), then build worker (1 turn with growth), another curragh (2 turns), then settler (3 turns), archer (3 turns), settler (3 turns). We should have Philo+Rep by this time. DO NOT revolt before the second settler is out. We need to consider Colossus, don't want to wait too long.

Barcelona needs that granary before starting Oracle. I think granary in 9 turns if we clear a forest. First worker finishes road, move him to mine BG. Second worker finishes mine, move him to clear forest south of the city.

Seville temple >> barracks?

We don't have enough food bonuses to pump out enough workers. Once we are in republic, irrigation will help us to catch up.

Gotta run.

Oh... send one curragh out where there is sea, east of Korean city. Send second east from NE tip of continent. Another can rush SE from Madrid, the fourth wherever looks good at that time.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Seville temple >> barracks?

Why? As long as we keep expanding, we'll be safe with a few warriors

 

[pindicator]

Please do not stack workers.

Can you explain that one for me? Like I said when I signed up, I've been away from Civ and the online community for a while, so I'm learning some of these things all over again.


I know the spear was a poor choice. An archer would have been better.

 

[Methos]

I believe he's talking about a statement in my writeup, though in truth I didn't stack the workers. Stacking is when you have several tiles working the same tile and the same improvement. Example: having two workers both building a road on the same tile, it's a waste of worker turns.

In my writeup I stated I stacked the workers and that wasn't the correct way of saying it. Yes I had two workers working the same tile but one of them was building a road and the other was mining.

I should have clarified myself more.

 

[Mathias]

I was actually refering to the 1750 BC save, where two workers are currently working the same tile. Sure, they are each doing separate jobs, but it is still a waste of a worker move stepping the second one in before the tile is roaded. One of those workers could instead have moved to the BG northwest of Barcelona, increasing production in the city four turns earlier.

In short, do not move a second worker onto an unroaded tile. Grouping workers for irrigation or mining is fine, as long as the road is built before other workers join in. This is most important early on, when every move counts. Later in the game, worker efficiency is less of a concern.

Seville might as well build a granary then start a wonder. Our other cities can build military as needed.

 

[Obormot]

Sorry for the delay, i'm playing it now.

 

[pindicator]

I see your point. My concern was getting the unimproved tile that Barcelona was using up and running, but I see that with growth I will just have the same problem over again and lose a worker-turn for it.

 

[Obormot]

pre-turn
- switched Madrid to curragh

1
Madrid: curragh->worker
discover philo->CoL (70%, -1gpt, 12turns)
send curraghs to continent tips for suicide runs

2
Madrid: curragh->settler (some shields wasted, but we need settlers)

3
-

4
-

5
Seville: temple->settler (it has too many unimproved tiles, so settler is better then a granary)
Spearman that was escorting the settler climbs the hill and sees the korean settler pair.
Toledo is founded on plains to beat the koreans.
Toledo starts worker
Madrid growth and i adjust the lux to 20%

6
Madrid: settler->settler

7
-

8
-

9
-

10
Madrid: settler->courthouse (prebuild)
Sabtiago founded, begins worker
lux down to 0%
science down to 50%, still gives philo in 2 turns
Mayans and Ottomans start Oracle