Maybe all religions are not equal (in gameplay strategy terms)

[LlamaCat]

I recently realized to my surprise that the 3 early religions do not give you a free missionary like the others. Somehow there's always something about the game that tends to pass me by for a while, I guess!

Now I suppose this was to give some kind of balance with the later religions, since in theory you can more easily found Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism than the others if you beeline for them at the beginning of the game. Except in many cases you will lose out on them if you don't have the head start of Mysticism, or it's a higher difficulty level, or depending on what other AIs you are playing against and their starting positions. But having the free missionary is great if you want to get a jumpstart on spreading your new faith and you intend to have a shrine.

Anyway I think based on this new realization that there is a way that one can rank the religions, and to my thinking there is only one true path: Confucianism. So here is my ranking of the religions (only in strictly strategic terms; as the developers correctly intended, all faiths are supposed to be equal entities):

1. Confucianism: If you want to found a religion, this one comes with the very important Code of Laws (for Courthouses) and is actually quite easy to grab first in most games because it's easy to jump ahead and research this one early. I believe this was part of the original Oracle slingshot strategies?

2. Taoism is next because it's along the Philosophy-Nationalism tech path, which if you like Golden Ages is a popular way to research while the AIs have their scientists researching elsewhere. Plus it's just cool to have the yin and yang symbol next to your city names.

3. Christianity takes a strong third place because of the new Apostolic Palace wonder being made available in BTS. This is the most controversial wonder in the game, and whether you think it's the best thing ever or the most useless, whomever builds the AP will likely command some of your attention. And if you are going to have a strong religious presense, the hammer bonus for temples, monasteries and cathedrals is nothing to sneeze at.

4. Starting with the 3 early faiths, Hinduism is easier to grab first because the AIs always seem to go for Buddhism. With Polytheism, you can also start building the Parthenon (although doing so too early in the game is questionable as there are more important wonders to go for).

5. Judaism is on a part of the tech tree you can always skip in the early game, unless Organized Religion really becomes that important for you. However, there is almost always something better to research this early so it's better to get Polytheism later in a trade.

6. Buddhism is the second least desirable to me because it's very hard to grab first. Meditation allows temples but I rarely find those so important that I need to research Meditation before most other starting techs. Unless I'm a Spiritual leader, I can usually find more early happiness from resources for the time being. The path to the Oracle is better sought through Polytheism.

7. Islam, I almost forgot, is on a dead-end tech and one that I almost always skip completely. Even with the free missionary I'm inclined to make this last or at least tied with Buddhism.

With this ranking concept, of course I am really just talking about the need to found a religion in your game at all and the relative value of doing so. What are some thoughts on this... tell me how crazy I am.

 

[Gliese 581]

I agree with your ranking and this is the reason I always play with choose religions. Well, one of the reasons anyhow. It's fun to see religions that's always been inconsequential before have a chance of being the most widely spread religion. Also you can try to guess what other civs are out there by what they pick but it's also harder to figure out which of Theology or COL that was researched to found the fourth religion. Although it mostly goes meditation-> polytheism-> monotheism-> code of laws-> theology-> philosophy-> divine right. Not always though..

 

[LlamaCat]

choose religions is a good feature and adds to the equal status that the developers intended and as you say basically makes the game more of a challenge in this area. I guess my ranking is more about the 7 techs that allow you to found a religion so you get more bang for the buck. but with the "choose religions" option I might actually change the order, since it becomes more of a guessing game and one has to factor that into the strategy.

 

[Polycrates]

Sounds fair enough to me...
Trying to found one of the early three is a mistake, I reckon (particularly on the higher levels); you're unlikely to get there first, you're not researching important worker techs and so you slow your vital early expansion, and the AI is now obsessed with spamming missionaries (so if there's another religion on the continent, yours is unlikely to be able to keep up).

Confucianism would also be my pick for best religion - not too hard to get, and on a tech that you would often want to beeline for its own sake. It's early enough that it has a chance of spreading, and the missionary gives you the potential for converting a neighbour straight away.
Christianity is not too far behind - using a Great Prophet to bulb Theology is often a good move, particularly for Spiritual civs. Definitely the religion of choice for Egypt and Arabia in particular, who have no trouble founding it.
Taoism is generally just too late, I've found, even when you bulb Philosophy. And I've never seen Islam really do anything much at all (and Divine Right is a pretty useless tech anyway).

But yeah I'm more an advocate of adopting a neighbour's religion anyway; you get the diplo bonus without any work, and the enemy missionaries go nuts spreading it to you anyway. And the economic bonus of the shrine tends to be massively overrated, in my view.

 

[eewallace]

Yes, I agree with your ranking. In almost every game where I want my own religion, I beeline confucianism after I have my strategic resources researched. Courthouses + missionary to spread it to another civ right away. I also quite often get christianity and/or islam fairly early (even if I don't found them) because the AP and the Spiral Minaret are both pretty useful.

All in all, religions are stronger in BTS than in any earlier game, I think. I've been able to use religion strategies to fuel almost all of the types of victory.

 

[Maben]

I always play with the choose religion option, my friends and I find it a little more interesting instead of seeing the same religions founded at the same times every game and have the same religions become popular and all that.

Anyways, I always do the Oracle slingshot to Code of Laws and get that religion (I think you said it was Confucianism normally). I just love getting the tech boost, a reasonably early religion, and a missionary to boot. Also you get basically free access to the Chichen Itza which can be a nice wonder to have if you are planning on holing up for awhile lol.

Oh I almost forgot the best part, getting the Oracle gives you GP points towards a Prophet, basically guaranteeing your first great person can create the holy building for you. I missed the Oracle in my last game (but still beelined to Code of Laws first) because I was futzing around and boy did I miss having that gold early on. I didn't get the building till much later on and I had to use specialists. I would suggest getting Code of Laws to found your religion, especially if you don't start with Mysticism which I usually don't.

P.S.- Taoism is best, you get a cool Yin-Yang symbol.

 

[Mattino]

In my opinion, there are only two situation where it makes sense to found a religion (at least on Emperor, that is): either you are going for a relious win, or you are starting isolated.

Therefore, the "best" religion in my opinion is Christianity. The Apostolic palace is a must for religious win, and in isolation, the hammer-boost really help a lot.

Second is Judaism, again for the hammer-boost due to organized religion. Together with the AP, you can really get your economy going
Tied with Judaism is Taoism, due to Pacifism. This really depends whether you`re playing CE or SE, and hence on your position and your traits.

All the others are more or less equal in my mind. Courthouses are nice, so probably Confuciansm is next, but so is the Minarett, which comes with Islam and gives you gold like crazy. Can`t really descide between them...

The others are no-brainers; I just won`t found them, usually. I`d rather adopt them (and get to the shrine, if I must, by military means).

 

[oyzar]

Both Buddhism and Hinduism is above christianity... Judaism is behind all 3. It is just impossible to get it in any game against the computer unless you totally neglect worker techs.

 

[Gliese 581]

You don't have to adopt a religion even if you found it, if you plan to make your capital a financial powerhouse after seeing the start location and you start with mysticism, you could give polytheism a shot and have a decent chance of getting a holy shrine later. Especially if you're also going to try for the stonehenge or the oracle to get an early GP.

 

[Hawe Hawe]

I also agree with you. Further comments:
Islam: Divine Right is not only a very late and dead end tech, the biggest problem is the small time frame to build up your Monastery-Infrastructure: Scientific method is not that far away anymore, so if you want to spread Islam acitively you will have to focus on those necessary monasteries immediately. During the late renaissance period there are so many other priorities. Monasteries in the beginning are a superb building itself (science and culture) and there is not that much to build.
Judaism: in my experiences the AI-founder of hinduism (and not only Isabella) often continues straight towards Judaism. That's why i consider this religion as a very hard one to get. If you don't have anything useful to do with masonry (Walls or wonders to build, stones and marble to work), i would totally skip this rather expensive early tech-path. Organized religion is nice, but expensive and can probably wait a bit.
Buddhism: I would rank this higher. It is a gamble but i would research meditation early, even if Buddhism has already been founded. With meditation you can build monasteries, also for foreign religions that spread to you. There is also the possibility to ignore the religious path totally for a long time, but meditation is needed for Philosophy and other important techs. A total non-religious path can be choosen via meditation, then build the Shwedadingsda-Pagode and go for a extremely early free religion. An experiment, because the Pagode is very expensive.
I absolutely agree with taoism and confucianism, both are very important techs even without religion, so why shouldn't you beeline there first?
In my opinion Taoism via lightbulb is the easiest, nearly guaranteed religion.

 

[Zanttu]

I suppose this was to give some kind of balance with the later religions, since in theory you can more easily found Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism than the others if you beeline for them at the beginning of the game.

The advantage of the early 3 is not that you can beeline them easier (which isn't true, for example if you beeline CoL you will always get it even when not starting with mysticism). The advantage is that they come first, what means you have more time in spreading them. The AI will more likely keep the first religion that covers all of its cities, than adopt a new one. The earlier the religion is founded, the bigger benefit you will get from it.

I prefer CoL, if I'm going for religion. That's because it comes with the best tech. Usually I don't find a religion though, I will wait for one to spread to me instead, and then capture the holy city .

 

[madscientist]

I agree with the ranking and will offer a little more insight

Value of the early religions:
1) They get spread more and faster.
2) Easier diplomacy if you are one of these because the AI will be one of these too. No better diplomatic tool than religion, even late in the game.
3) Leads to priestood and arcale faster.
4) If you get an early religion and manage to get Stonehenge and Oracle built in the same city (this is not very difficult) you will get the shrine VERY early.
5) An early shrine self-spreads faster, thus getting more income and helping diplomacy

Conf: Everything you said. I also open Caste system, so you get a building, a wonder opening, a religion, and a civic.

Phil: Bulbing from a GS founds the religion and can open alot of trade opportunities.

Theology: opens the AP and theocracy civic. Also a very easy religion for the Egyptians to get via fast prophets from the UB. Shrine is a little slower but not much.

Divine Right: The dog but after the RPC Bismark game I am rethinking it. Benefits

1) Founds a religion, even if late.
2) Opens 2 very good financial wonders, Versailes (who would refuse a second Forbidden Palace) and the Spiral Minerat (gold from religious buildings).
3) Excellent trade value. The AIs want it. get a head start on the 2 wonders, then trade it away. You can get ALOT of valuable middle age techs with it, usually plus gold or combos of techs

Engineering
Fuedalism
Civil service
Guilds
Optics
Machinery

In a way as valuable in trade as Bulbing Philosophy.

But mostly I wanted to restate the benefits of the three early religions.