mb1 20K double whammy
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
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- Jan 24, 2003
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We sure do. But taking the time to build a settler factory will pay off. Canton will be a 4 turn settler pump in 6 turns. There is a lot of unclaimed territory. The war will come, but will we be ready b4 Chivalry?The lack of early development is exactly the challenge for this SG. We can all create a settler factory in our captital, build a dozen cities by 1000BC and then beat up the sucky regent AI. But what if you restrict your two most productive cities to culture building? Where does your army come from? Where do your settlers and workers come from?
No way is this a regent level game. We are in effect forfeiting two thirds of our production, we're gonna be crowded into a corner by two of the most aggressive civs, Japan and Russia, both with very strong UU's, we have another Civ (America) who appear to have a great set of tiles to work, and we only have one way to win.
Great isn't it?
Right, mad- I would stick to the Settler factory unless it's too many turns away.
Concerning our army, I thought we had a few warriors to upgrade, but maybe I have lost track of our progress...
Concerning our army, I thought we had a few warriors to upgrade, but maybe I have lost track of our progress...
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I haven't looked at the save, apart from grabbing the screenshot, but with Canton's Granary due in 6 turns I would stick with it. I don't know how close the worker is to completing the chop on the Game tile but that might shave a couple of turns.
After the Granary is complete we should be set up for a Settler every 4 or 5 turns (depending on shield production).
I think we're in a different situation to when I suggested swapping from Granary to Settler back in 2190BC.
As I see it, the priority for our next Settler should be the Furs.
regards
Ted
After the Granary is complete we should be set up for a Settler every 4 or 5 turns (depending on shield production).
I think we're in a different situation to when I suggested swapping from Granary to Settler back in 2190BC.
As I see it, the priority for our next Settler should be the Furs.
regards
Ted
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On the first point I think a priority would be to get the population and shield situation so that we had a choice of either settler in 4 or worker in two turns. We need both. I think we will still have +5 food if we mine the cattle after the game is irrigated, is that correct?
On the second point I would just want you to know Ted that I read your suggestion and fully intended to do it. I even selected Settler after the worker was finished. 8 turns for the settler and 16 for the granary. I just made the judgement that a granary build would allow the city to grow a bit, and if I chopped the forrest I could probably get it in 12 (allowing for pop increases), then 4 turns for the settler. So in effect the settler would be 8 turns late, but we could pump them at a higher rate from then on.
I really was undecided, and I said as much in the turn log, particularly because I didn't do what we agreed to.
Don't get the hump with me.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Either I expressed myself badly or you have misunderstood the intent of my remarks (probably the former).Originally posted by mad-bax
On the second point I would just want you to know Ted that I read your suggestion and fully intended to do it.
Don't get the hump with me.
All I meant to convey in my remark about the earlier decision was that we are not in the same position now - Canton's Temple & the soon to be available Game make all the difference.
So, rest assured that I don't have the hump with you
regards
Ted
I've taken a peek at the save. The forest chop will be helping to get the granary 2 turns earlier, we are not in such bad a shape. I think the odds for both the wonders are good. Each of them are only built by one other civ. Even with the limited number of cties, we are keeping up with the AI, and at this level it will not be very hard to leave them behind soon. The contacts *will* help, this will be our biggest money maker and will pay for hurried defences should they be nescessary.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Pre-flight checks OK 
IBT
Barb horse appears N of Shanghai - he is in position to attack either Shanghai or the Worker NW
1 - 1225BC
Worker retreats to Shanghai
Nothing worth trading
IBT
Barb horse attacks Shanghai but is rebuffed by our firm defense
2 - 1200BC
Worker (Shanghai) SW
Buy slave from Germany for 27gp (we need a policy for slave buying)
Slave W
IBT
Nanking Sword - Sword
3 - 1175BC
Sword moves to Canton
Slave road
Worker (W Bejing) mine - S
Worker (SW Shanghai) W, mine
IBT
Canton Granary - Settler
Germany start the Pyramids
4 - 1150BC
Sword (Canton) heads for Shanghai - relieve warrior for upgrade
Worker (Game) clear - irrigate
Worker (2SW Bejing) mine
Unable to reduce research rate (Writing in 1)
No change in trading
IBT
Discover Literature - Map Making
Barb horse appears on Iron E of Shanghai
5 - 1125BC
Research @70% - MM in 16, breaking even
Sword arrives in Shanghai
Warrior (Shanghai) heads for Nanking
IBT
Barb Horse kills slave
6 - 1100BC
Vet Sword kills Barb Horse
Worker (Game) irrigate - road
Worker starts road to Furs
Lux 30% (Shanghai)
7 - 1075BC
Sword returns to Shanghai
Worker (2SW Bejing) mine - road
Warrior arrive in Nanking
Lux remains @30% (Canton)
8 - 1050BC
Worker (Game) road - move to SSW Canton (BG)
Nanking upgrades Warrior to Sword (40gp)
IBT
Canton Settler - Settler
9 - 1025BC
Settler E
Worker (SSW Canton) mine (BG)
Worker (2SW Bejing) road - E
Sword (Nanking) moves to Canton
Warrior pillages mountain road (neutral territory) SEish of Seattle, cutting off American Horse supply (repeat to the N next turn)
Lux 20%
Research 80% (MM 9 turns)
10 - 1000BC
Settler continues toward N of Furs (not on automove)
Sword (Canton) E
Worker (S Bejing) SE (BG)
Our Holdings
Tech Status
America: up Polytheism, we're up Literature - I see no point in trading until we have to
Japan: we're up Literature
Persia: We're up Writing & Literature
Germany: We're up Literature
Russia: up Maths (this turn), We're up Literature - again no need to trade yet
Notes
Progress is slow but steady
I did very little trading as there was nothing to benefit our present position.
I'm a bit worried that we haven't made any new contacts. It increases my suspicion that we have more than one landmass.
Oracle due in 6 turns - Great Library next?
Pyramids due in 13 - Great Lighthouse?
Buying slaves - we ought to have a policy as this is Civ 1.29 and they're seriously undervalued. Should we set a nominal price of 100gp per slave?
The Warrior SE of Seattle is stood on a road that links the American horse. I suggest the next player pillages the road
I suggest that the Sword relieves the Warrior in Bejing in order to allow warrior upgrade.
Watch Canton very carefully as it has such a weird mix of tiles.
There is, obviously, a barb camp to the North of Shanghai. Unfortunately we can't do anything about it at the moment. Just be aware of barbs popping up near Shanghai.
The save is > here <
regards
Ted
IBT
Barb horse appears N of Shanghai - he is in position to attack either Shanghai or the Worker NW
1 - 1225BC
Worker retreats to Shanghai
Nothing worth trading
IBT
Barb horse attacks Shanghai but is rebuffed by our firm defense
2 - 1200BC
Worker (Shanghai) SW
Buy slave from Germany for 27gp (we need a policy for slave buying)
Slave W
IBT
Nanking Sword - Sword
3 - 1175BC
Sword moves to Canton
Slave road
Worker (W Bejing) mine - S
Worker (SW Shanghai) W, mine
IBT
Canton Granary - Settler
Germany start the Pyramids
4 - 1150BC
Sword (Canton) heads for Shanghai - relieve warrior for upgrade
Worker (Game) clear - irrigate
Worker (2SW Bejing) mine
Unable to reduce research rate (Writing in 1)
No change in trading
IBT
Discover Literature - Map Making
Barb horse appears on Iron E of Shanghai
5 - 1125BC
Research @70% - MM in 16, breaking even
Sword arrives in Shanghai
Warrior (Shanghai) heads for Nanking
IBT
Barb Horse kills slave
6 - 1100BC
Vet Sword kills Barb Horse
Worker (Game) irrigate - road
Worker starts road to Furs
Lux 30% (Shanghai)
7 - 1075BC
Sword returns to Shanghai
Worker (2SW Bejing) mine - road
Warrior arrive in Nanking
Lux remains @30% (Canton)
8 - 1050BC
Worker (Game) road - move to SSW Canton (BG)
Nanking upgrades Warrior to Sword (40gp)
IBT
Canton Settler - Settler
9 - 1025BC
Settler E
Worker (SSW Canton) mine (BG)
Worker (2SW Bejing) road - E
Sword (Nanking) moves to Canton
Warrior pillages mountain road (neutral territory) SEish of Seattle, cutting off American Horse supply (repeat to the N next turn)
Lux 20%
Research 80% (MM 9 turns)
10 - 1000BC
Settler continues toward N of Furs (not on automove)
Sword (Canton) E
Worker (S Bejing) SE (BG)
Our Holdings
Tech Status
America: up Polytheism, we're up Literature - I see no point in trading until we have to
Japan: we're up Literature
Persia: We're up Writing & Literature
Germany: We're up Literature
Russia: up Maths (this turn), We're up Literature - again no need to trade yet
Notes
Progress is slow but steady
I did very little trading as there was nothing to benefit our present position.
I'm a bit worried that we haven't made any new contacts. It increases my suspicion that we have more than one landmass.
Oracle due in 6 turns - Great Library next?
Pyramids due in 13 - Great Lighthouse?
Buying slaves - we ought to have a policy as this is Civ 1.29 and they're seriously undervalued. Should we set a nominal price of 100gp per slave?
The Warrior SE of Seattle is stood on a road that links the American horse. I suggest the next player pillages the road
I suggest that the Sword relieves the Warrior in Bejing in order to allow warrior upgrade.
Watch Canton very carefully as it has such a weird mix of tiles.
There is, obviously, a barb camp to the North of Shanghai. Unfortunately we can't do anything about it at the moment. Just be aware of barbs popping up near Shanghai.
The save is > here <
regards
Ted
Solid turns again, Ted.
I think you're right not to trade, we need to build up a bit first. Buying slaves is a good way to do just that.
I think you're right not to trade, we need to build up a bit first. Buying slaves is a good way to do just that.
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One comment I would make is about trading. IMHO we should not trade literature with the AI until the Oracle and Pyramids have been built. Otherwise the AI will cascade to GL. In fact my preference would be not to trade it at all (unless we can get Monarchy before the AI get Lit 
)
I'm becoming a master of stating the obvious.
)I'm becoming a master of stating the obvious.
Got it.
I'll try to give it a look later on.
In any case, I agree on not trading yet. No need to hurry research.
EDIT: on research. After MM, should we go for Monarchy in a chase of the HG, or try to switch to Republic asap and rely on the AI to do some research for us?
I was thinking of sending a couple of Swordies north of Shanghai to clear it up for the first or second Settler (just to shield Shanghai from barbs). The second (or first) Settler should go south of Beijing, IIRC.
I wouldn't want to wait too long before attacking Tokyo, though -just enough not to have it auto-razed...
I'll try to give it a look later on.
In any case, I agree on not trading yet. No need to hurry research.
EDIT: on research. After MM, should we go for Monarchy in a chase of the HG, or try to switch to Republic asap and rely on the AI to do some research for us?
I was thinking of sending a couple of Swordies north of Shanghai to clear it up for the first or second Settler (just to shield Shanghai from barbs). The second (or first) Settler should go south of Beijing, IIRC.
I wouldn't want to wait too long before attacking Tokyo, though -just enough not to have it auto-razed...
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I think Monarchy is the ticket here. I am concerned that the Americans may already have it as they are rich and haven't researched anything visible in a looong time.
The point being that if we manage to complete the Oracle and Pyramids, they will cascade to HG.
OTOH this is unlikely, so maybe we just pass on HG and go for Republic. Get a big tech lead, and go from there.
I think we should take Tokyo now. The attitude hit is temporary for an autoraze IIRC and that city is a pain in the neck. I bet 3 swords could take it.
Sending swords to take out the barbs is a good idea. But I would only send one, escorting a settler, found a city and then look for the camp. It would take a long time to get swords back from up there to anywhere useful.
Only my 2 Lira. How much is that worth?
The point being that if we manage to complete the Oracle and Pyramids, they will cascade to HG.
OTOH this is unlikely, so maybe we just pass on HG and go for Republic. Get a big tech lead, and go from there.
I think we should take Tokyo now. The attitude hit is temporary for an autoraze IIRC and that city is a pain in the neck. I bet 3 swords could take it.
Sending swords to take out the barbs is a good idea. But I would only send one, escorting a settler, found a city and then look for the camp. It would take a long time to get swords back from up there to anywhere useful.
Only my 2 Lira. How much is that worth?
2 Lire = about 0.1 Euro cent... I would value your opinion a bit higher! 
Anyway, I did manage to give a look at the save.
We are going to have the third Swordsman in 3 turns, and I agree that they should be enough for Tokyo.
Actually, I was thinking to declare war now, and try to buy Xerxes' alliance with Writing. This should avoid, or at least delay, Toku's retaliation plus delay their tech progress.
This means that it won't be possible to go barbarian hunting north of Shanghai. Maybe it is best to build a Spearman there as soon as the Oracle is done (should take two turns), then proceed with the Great Lib prebuild.
With reserach -it would be nice to get Poly from America if we want to research Monarchy on our own, but I too suspect that they are already going there.
MM is the good trading opportunity, but if we want to avoid cascading (on which I agree), we could try to use Philo or CoL instead. I'm not sure
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Do any of the civs we know have a decent coatal city? IIRC no. So trading MM would be OK I suspect.
So, finish MM, trade it for Poly and research Monarchy. Trade writing to Persia for MA against Japan, send 3 swords to Tokyo.
Bye Bye Japan.
Sounds like a plan.
So, finish MM, trade it for Poly and research Monarchy. Trade writing to Persia for MA against Japan, send 3 swords to Tokyo.
Bye Bye Japan.
Sounds like a plan.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
IIRC,
Once we have MM we can can sell & buy WM from all our contacts so there is no need to trade it (MM) away until the Great Lighthouse is well on it's way.
Remember that America might have popped Poly from a hut and is actually mirroring our research. Just a possiblity.
In any event, I think trading before our current Wonders are completed is unwise.
Tokyo's a nice spot but it's far enough away from our current capital to be fairly corrupt. Obviously that would improve when we get round to our palace jump but at the moment I don't think it's that attractive.
Just my usual random thoughts
regards
Ted
Once we have MM we can can sell & buy WM from all our contacts so there is no need to trade it (MM) away until the Great Lighthouse is well on it's way.
Remember that America might have popped Poly from a hut and is actually mirroring our research. Just a possiblity.
In any event, I think trading before our current Wonders are completed is unwise.
Tokyo's a nice spot but it's far enough away from our current capital to be fairly corrupt. Obviously that would improve when we get round to our palace jump but at the moment I don't think it's that attractive.
Just my usual random thoughts
regards
Ted
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