mb2-a space oddity
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
While I'm stopping civ for a moment to get some work done, I have time for a question:
What to do with size 1 pop Ottoman cities that have a cultural size of 1, which will autoraze when attacked? Should we wait and suffer WW in the former Otto cities or attack anyway and take the reputation blow? How big an impact will that have anyway, does anyone know this?
What to do with size 1 pop Ottoman cities that have a cultural size of 1, which will autoraze when attacked? Should we wait and suffer WW in the former Otto cities or attack anyway and take the reputation blow? How big an impact will that have anyway, does anyone know this?
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Space,
As all our techs will have to come from trading we need a pretty clean reputation. However we have a surfeit of gold, allowing us to make gifts to repair damage done to our rep by autorazing.
Just my (random) thoughts
Ted
As all our techs will have to come from trading we need a pretty clean reputation. However we have a surfeit of gold, allowing us to make gifts to repair damage done to our rep by autorazing.
Just my (random) thoughts
Ted
That was what I thought too, but I don't know how much of an impact (auto)razing cities actually has. It has nothing to do with our financial reputation, or has it? Is there such a distiction or is it just one general reputation?
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
The following quote is from Bamspeedys "AI attitude exposed" form the war academy.
+1 if you raze the city of another AI. +12 if you raze a city of that civ. Other civs dont add any more penalties than the standard +1 if the city had contained any Great wonders. It doesnt look like the victim adds more than the +12 permanent penalty either, but there may be a temporary penalty.
positive numbers give a worse attitude. So the effect on the Ottomans is big, but the effect on the other AI is small, but increases with every city raised.
Normally I would go after all the pop 2 and over cities, but leave a few units "goal hanging" near the pop 1 towns. As you capture the capital it will jump and eventually end up in a pop 1 town. Since the town has the palace in it, when you defeat it, it will not autoraze. You need enough troops behind the front line to do this efficiently however.
If you like, you could just declare war on Gandhi and let the Ottoman pop 1 towns grow a bit. The reinforcements you send to india could just capture the newly grown cities "en passant" as it were.
+1 if you raze the city of another AI. +12 if you raze a city of that civ. Other civs dont add any more penalties than the standard +1 if the city had contained any Great wonders. It doesnt look like the victim adds more than the +12 permanent penalty either, but there may be a temporary penalty.
positive numbers give a worse attitude. So the effect on the Ottomans is big, but the effect on the other AI is small, but increases with every city raised.
Normally I would go after all the pop 2 and over cities, but leave a few units "goal hanging" near the pop 1 towns. As you capture the capital it will jump and eventually end up in a pop 1 town. Since the town has the palace in it, when you defeat it, it will not autoraze. You need enough troops behind the front line to do this efficiently however.
If you like, you could just declare war on Gandhi and let the Ottoman pop 1 towns grow a bit. The reinforcements you send to india could just capture the newly grown cities "en passant" as it were.
Thanks for looking that up for me, Mad. 
.
I believe reputation is something else than attitude though, it could be razing has only inpact on attitudes, that would make sense.
There are some Ottoman targets left to take before declaring India.
. I believe reputation is something else than attitude though, it could be razing has only inpact on attitudes, that would make sense.
There are some Ottoman targets left to take before declaring India.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear
What I was trying to say is that we could repair any small blemish on our rep by gifting gold (or whatever) to the other AI. The Ottomans don't matter as they're on the road to extinction anyway
mad-bax's reference top Bamspeedy's "AI attitude exposed" does, of course, explain it fully.
regards
Ted
Originally posted by TedJackson
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear
Or maybe I'm just too thick to understand this ...
My impression is that attitude and reputation are different things. If you have a bad financial reputation this will cause the AI to not trade with you in long term deals (involving gpt). The attitude of the AI towards you will cause them 'only' to ask higher prices. Attitude is manipulable, reputation is not. Or am I completely wrong?
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
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Space made an important point. Reputation and Attitude are different things. Are trades more expensive against furious civs and less so against gracious civs?
Autorazing does not break a deal of any kind does it?
And also, yes, who cares what the Ottomans think of us? Kill 'em all
Autorazing does not break a deal of any kind does it?
And also, yes, who cares what the Ottomans think of us? Kill 'em all
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I've always treated Reputation & Attitude as two facets of the same thing. But it may be that I'm wrong.
Any road up, autorazing shouldn't break any deals in our situation. As mad-bax said "Who cares what the Ottomans think of us? Kill 'em all"
regards
Ted
Any road up, autorazing shouldn't break any deals in our situation. As mad-bax said "Who cares what the Ottomans think of us? Kill 'em all"
regards
Ted
Pre-Turn:
Looking at the save I want to veto only the one settler heading to a nothing site in the tundra. My line of thinking is this. If there is somethinh valuable there (Oil maybe ) the AI will settle near it. Because it'll have lousy production we can take it whenever we see fit. No need to waste a settler now and probably gold later to make such a city work. Plus that it will hurt the other cities laying further away from our Palace...
Move Horse from Fustat to the Front.
Move Spear from Basra in Galley, the settler from Mecca will be his company soon.
Switch Basra from spear to library to push (or hold) the cultural border.
Switch Khurasan from spear to horse (forest chop will speed up the build here).
Goals: conquer Ottoman cities and fish for a leader.
Press enter.
turn 1 - 70AD
Mecca settler -> spear
Aleppo rax -> spear
Vikings start the Great Library
Two Ottoman archers appear on Istanbuls gate.
Move the new settler to the galley.
I think someone was planning forest chops to speed up Wonder building, that just won't work I'm afraid, so the forests with the workerstacks near Medina and Yamama are just roaded. MM a bit to make them finish at the same turn.
Elite Horse attacks reg archer and wins and has 4hp left, fortifies.
Elite Horse attacks reg archer and wins and is redlined, fortifies.
Massing Horsies for attack on Edrine.
Diplo:
Sell WM to everbody and his friend and collect 33g and all WMs.
No new techs available.
turn 2 - 90AD
Baghdad spear -> spear
Masjran spear -> aquaduct
Kufah spear -> spear
Fustat spear -> horse
Aden galley -> horse
Muscat spear -> rax
Mansura horse -> spear
Babylon finishes the Great Wall, serious cascade danger!
The Greeks, Vikings and Egyptians cascade to Great Library.
Collect settler on galley.
Move Northern settler NW to, in time, grab the whale.
Move more Horsies South.
Diplo: no news
turn 3 - 110AD
Mecca spear -> settler
Damascus settler -> spear
Khurasan horse -> horse
Bukhara rax -> spear
Koreans and Aztec start Great Library.
Egypt has founded a city on our continent, Pithom.
Balkh founded -> Temple
Galley ends in deep water because its blocked by a Viking galley, oops.
Stack moves to the forest near Edrine and the jungle at Ushkudar.
A barbarian camp is spotted near the new settling site.
Diplo:
as was seen by the Wonder building everybody knows literature now. Egypt and Babylon are the only ones who have any serious money.
turn 4 - 130AD
Iznik Temple -> rax
Ottoman start Great Library
Our galley is lost...
Vet Horse attacks Edrine, kills reg spear, 2hp left
Elite Horse attacks, kills reg spear, 2hp left
Vet Horse attacks reg archer... Edrine falls! [dance] That was their last decent city.
Vet Horse attacks Uskudar (it has cultural size 2, so it should *not* be autorazed), defending reg spear is killed.
Vet horse claims Uskudar!Barb camp destroyed.
Capture Ottoman worker near Bursa.
Diplo: Nada
Looking at the save I want to veto only the one settler heading to a nothing site in the tundra. My line of thinking is this. If there is somethinh valuable there (Oil maybe
) the AI will settle near it. Because it'll have lousy production we can take it whenever we see fit. No need to waste a settler now and probably gold later to make such a city work. Plus that it will hurt the other cities laying further away from our Palace...Move Horse from Fustat to the Front.
Move Spear from Basra in Galley, the settler from Mecca will be his company soon.
Switch Basra from spear to library to push (or hold) the cultural border.
Switch Khurasan from spear to horse (forest chop will speed up the build here).
Goals: conquer Ottoman cities and fish for a leader.
Press enter.
turn 1 - 70AD
Mecca settler -> spear
Aleppo rax -> spear
Vikings start the Great Library
Two Ottoman archers appear on Istanbuls gate.
Move the new settler to the galley.
I think someone was planning forest chops to speed up Wonder building, that just won't work I'm afraid, so the forests with the workerstacks near Medina and Yamama are just roaded. MM a bit to make them finish at the same turn.
Elite Horse attacks reg archer and wins and has 4hp left, fortifies.
Elite Horse attacks reg archer and wins and is redlined, fortifies.
Massing Horsies for attack on Edrine.
Diplo:
Sell WM to everbody and his friend and collect 33g and all WMs.
No new techs available.
turn 2 - 90AD
Baghdad spear -> spear
Masjran spear -> aquaduct
Kufah spear -> spear
Fustat spear -> horse
Aden galley -> horse
Muscat spear -> rax
Mansura horse -> spear
Babylon finishes the Great Wall, serious cascade danger!
The Greeks, Vikings and Egyptians cascade to Great Library.
Collect settler on galley.
Move Northern settler NW to, in time, grab the whale.
Move more Horsies South.
Diplo: no news
turn 3 - 110AD
Mecca spear -> settler
Damascus settler -> spear
Khurasan horse -> horse
Bukhara rax -> spear
Koreans and Aztec start Great Library.
Egypt has founded a city on our continent, Pithom.
Balkh founded -> Temple
Galley ends in deep water because its blocked by a Viking galley, oops.
Stack moves to the forest near Edrine and the jungle at Ushkudar.
A barbarian camp is spotted near the new settling site.
Diplo:
as was seen by the Wonder building everybody knows literature now. Egypt and Babylon are the only ones who have any serious money.
turn 4 - 130AD
Iznik Temple -> rax
Ottoman start Great Library
Our galley is lost...
Vet Horse attacks Edrine, kills reg spear, 2hp left
Elite Horse attacks, kills reg spear, 2hp left
Vet Horse attacks reg archer... Edrine falls! [dance] That was their last decent city.
Vet Horse attacks Uskudar (it has cultural size 2, so it should *not* be autorazed), defending reg spear is killed.
Vet horse claims Uskudar!Barb camp destroyed.
Capture Ottoman worker near Bursa.
Diplo: Nada
turn 5 - 150AD
Kuhfa spear -> settler
Fustat horse -> aquaduct
Persia and Ottoman start Great Library
Barb horse attacks Shiraz and dies.
Ottoman archer attack horse, which redlines and retreats
Barb killed near Shiraz.
Elite horse kills Ottoman archer, 4hp left. (the fish won't bite today)
Mosul founded -> Temple
No news from our slow AI brethern.
turn 6 - 170AD
Babs want to talk: he wants TM for TM, alrighty.
Kufah spear -> settler
Damascus horse -> settler
Edrine resistance ends and riots, hire some entertainers.
Baghdad spear -> courthouse
Yamama Great Lighthouse -> Temple
Merw riots, the extra spear is right next to it now.
Persia, Korea, Babylonia, India, Iroquois, Mongols, Greeks and Vikings all cascade to Great Library, since the Great Lighthouse is cheaper this should be OK.
Move spear into Merv, its content once again.
Vet Horse attacks Bursa and is redlined.
Elite horse attacks archer redlines but wins, still no leader.
Vet horse attacks and is killed, our first casualty
Vet horse attacks and wins unscratched.
Vet horse attacks and takes Bursa! [dance]
Settler pair arrives at the Greek island.
Our Galleys sail the sea!
Kuhfa spear -> settler
Fustat horse -> aquaduct
Persia and Ottoman start Great Library
Barb horse attacks Shiraz and dies.
Ottoman archer attack horse, which redlines and retreats
Barb killed near Shiraz.
Elite horse kills Ottoman archer, 4hp left. (the fish won't bite today)
Mosul founded -> Temple
No news from our slow AI brethern.
turn 6 - 170AD
Babs want to talk: he wants TM for TM, alrighty.
Kufah spear -> settler
Damascus horse -> settler
Edrine resistance ends and riots, hire some entertainers.
Baghdad spear -> courthouse
Yamama Great Lighthouse -> Temple
Merw riots
, the extra spear is right next to it now.Persia, Korea, Babylonia, India, Iroquois, Mongols, Greeks and Vikings all cascade to Great Library, since the Great Lighthouse is cheaper this should be OK.
Move spear into Merv, its content once again.
Vet Horse attacks Bursa and is redlined.
Elite horse attacks archer redlines but wins, still no leader.
Vet horse attacks and is killed, our first casualty
Vet horse attacks and wins unscratched.
Vet horse attacks and takes Bursa! [dance]
Settler pair arrives at the Greek island.
Our Galleys sail the sea!
turn 7 - 190AD
Medina completes Great Library -> Aquaduct
Mansura spear -> spear
Switch Damascus from settler to spear allowing it to grow a bit.
Sell WMs and buy 2 workers from Egypt for 209g+WM, are they at war? Establish embassy for 71g.
Egypt has the Republic, we wants 1781g for it, decide to wait a bit (owning the GL...)
turn 8 - 210AD
Aztec want to talk: they want to sell thei WM for WM+2g, ok!
Otto Archer kills Horse.
Khurasan horse -> spear
Aden horse -> spear
Aydab founded -> rax
No news on the diplo front.
turn 9 - 230AD
Viks ask us to leave, ok.
Mecca spear -> horse
Damascus spear -> courthouse
Kufah settler -> spear
Merw Temple -> worker
India moves a stack of 4 warriors to our border near Bursa. Now, what could they be up to? They know Currency. We can trade it for 2 luxes, but we want something different .
Whip spear from Edrine.
Bayt Ras founded on the Greek Island -> rax
Most others knows Currency too now.
turn 10 - 250AD
We learn Currency, enter the next age, and get Monotheism and Engineering. [dance]
India moves within our borders...
Edrine spear -> rax
Basra lib -> market
Fez worker -> worker
Horse kills Ottoman archer.
I politely ask India to leave... I can't ask them to declare war, they say they will... doh, like I believe them! I think the next player should declare, but I leave it up to him, I'll fortify the horses to allow them to be moved again before the end-of-turn.
---->the save <----
Medina completes Great Library -> Aquaduct
Mansura spear -> spear
Switch Damascus from settler to spear allowing it to grow a bit.
Sell WMs and buy 2 workers from Egypt for 209g+WM, are they at war? Establish embassy for 71g.
Egypt has the Republic, we wants 1781g for it, decide to wait a bit (owning the GL...)
turn 8 - 210AD
Aztec want to talk: they want to sell thei WM for WM+2g, ok!
Otto Archer kills Horse.
Khurasan horse -> spear
Aden horse -> spear
Aydab founded -> rax
No news on the diplo front.
turn 9 - 230AD
Viks ask us to leave, ok.
Mecca spear -> horse
Damascus spear -> courthouse
Kufah settler -> spear
Merw Temple -> worker
India moves a stack of 4 warriors to our border near Bursa. Now, what could they be up to?
They know Currency. We can trade it for 2 luxes, but we want something different .Whip spear from Edrine.
Bayt Ras founded on the Greek Island -> rax
Most others knows Currency too now
.turn 10 - 250AD
We learn Currency, enter the next age, and get Monotheism and Engineering. [dance]
India moves within our borders...
Edrine spear -> rax
Basra lib -> market
Fez worker -> worker
Horse kills Ottoman archer.
I politely ask India to leave... I can't ask them to declare war
, they say they will... doh, like I believe them! I think the next player should declare, but I leave it up to him, I'll fortify the horses to allow them to be moved again before the end-of-turn.---->the save <----
Just to show what the situation is like at Bursa:
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Nail-biting stuff, Space...
Well played! Great Lighthouse & Great Library
Have a
and ![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
on down
regards
Ted
Well played! Great Lighthouse & Great Library
Have a
and on down regards
Ted
Thanks Ted, I will.
Them were nice turns, but time consuming. I did not get the logistics quite right, the spearman reinforcements take ages to arrive. I really hoped to have put the Ottoman to rest in these turns, but there are still 2 cities left.
Them were nice turns, but time consuming. I did not get the logistics quite right, the spearman reinforcements take ages to arrive. I really hoped to have put the Ottoman to rest in these turns, but there are still 2 cities left.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Actually there are still 4
Obviously you've started on the Doesn't matter though, just more opportunities to get a Great Leader
regards
Ted
Brewster
stays crunchy in milk
Are we settling the desert area between ourselves and our newly aquired Ottoman holdings? By getting some cities in there, we will reduce the time it takes to get our soldiers to the front lines. Good luck fishing (I would like to get a few GLs this game as my last few have been rather dry and leaderless.
Yeah, there are lots of settlers on their way south. Don't know the exact number... 
