McCIV-01 Prince McShuffle

I'm not very interested in going for a cultural victory. When we have conquered our continent we can see how big it is, and probably either get domination or vote ourselves a victory. Or we start an invasion overseas.
I don't know, it's basically over at the point we take our continent, so, whatever you like.
 
Paulsy said:
Just a couple of quitck points, I think we really could do with finishing the university in Moscow before we reach MT as we'll be using its production for years afterwards and we dont want to miss out on the 25% extra research it provides.

Yeah, with 20/20 I would have prioritized it before the mystery crossbowman... a bit of :smoke: on my part. (:lol: the stoner crossbowman, we need a good name for him!) I think building a second caravel to cirumnavigate is worth the delay, though.

Thrar said:
I'm not very interested in going for a cultural victory. When we have conquered our continent we can see how big it is, and probably either get domination or vote ourselves a victory. Or we start an invasion overseas.
I don't know, it's basically over at the point we take our continent, so, whatever you like.

Personally, I'd like to do a conquest/domination, just for the novelty of it. I normally win by culture if I can, or space as a back up... that being said, I think this game became "won" once we got the Great Lighthouse (I'm never going to neglect that again if I have a coastal capital!) Still, I'm a bit mystified how we're going to get the hammers to get enough Cossacks+garrison to take our continent... the :whipped: might be helpful.

I've won a few games via domination, but I've never had a conquest win at all, so that would be very interesting.
 
Preturn strategy: Research toward Military Tradition while continuing to build infrastructure. Looking around, everything is in great shape. I'd expect no less picking up after armstrong. Hit Enter.

IT
Yaroslavl': University -> Market

Turn 1) 1214 AD
Worker moves

IT
Peace treaty with Cyrus is cancelled
Moscow: Caravel -> Caravel

Turn 2) 1220 AD
More worker moves (irrigation line so nicely plotted out)
Send caravel due east

IT
Research kicks down to 60%
Yek: Market -> Forge

Turn 3) 1226 AD
zzzzzzz

IT
Moscow: Caravel -> University

Turn 4) 1232 AD
2nd caravel starts on a westerly path
Taoism spread in Susa
taoisminsusa.JPG


IT
mccivlrnsgunpwdr.JPG

... Set research to Military Tradition
Tarsus: Library -> Harbor

Turn 5) 1238 AD
Whip University in Rostov

IT
Rostov: University -> Taoist Monestary
Pasargadae: Library -> Rax

Turn 6) 1244 AD
Whip Courthouse in Susa
Research back to 70% (-7 gpt) MT in 10

IT
Susa: Courthouse -> Library

Turn 7) 1250 AD
Yak is having happiness problems, whip University there.
Re-work existing resource deal with Qin. Now getting 4 gpt for fish.

IT
Yakutsk: University -> Taoist Temple

Turn 8) 1256 AD
Worker moves

IT
Cyrus adopts organized religion

Turn 9) 1262 AD
zzzzzzzz

Turn 10) 1268 AD
zzzzzzzz

Post turn:
There is one caravel heading East, another West. I would expect contact with the other continent next turnset. Building the monastaries after Uni's for the additional 10% research boost. Harbors in our coastal towns would help with a small $ boost also.

*****The Save*****

The Roster:
armstrong
McLMan - just played
Paulsy - UP!
Thrar - on deck
Xtream Rockstar
 
No need for monasteries, imo. 10% is at best 3 beakers, and we're now able to build muskets, so there are other things to do for our cities.
I'd suggest get the military prepared, some muskets done before we get to MT, and then start rolling as soon as we can.

Probably...in my turnset! :satan: :hammer:
 
I think there a few minor things to discuss:

(for background, if you haven't seen the save) Moscow's Univerity comes in 2, MT is comes in 5 turns and the Taj in 12.

(1) We can't trade for Theology yet, but we can research it in 3 (so most, if not all, Cossacks will be able to get 6 xp.) We can trade for Feudalism, however, too, but we lose Bureaucracy (ouch!) - I think I'd go with the thoecracry route, (trading for it from Cyrus if he breaks his monopoly/we meet someone in a caravel with Theo before MT comes in.)

(2) Yek is building a forge right now, but it will take 10 turns, so I'd probably just switch it over to a barracks asap.

(3) Should Rostov switch from a monastery to Barracks too? (it's a 9 turn build.)

(4) Since we don't want to whip things during our Golden Age, we should either whip things in right now (whipping while we're still unhappy is be fine, as they're largely forget by the end of the Golden Age) or save the whip for right after. I wouldn't recommend any big whips in a city without 2 foods before the GA.

(5) Huayna has a rice for trade, but I don't see any heath problems.

(6) Cyrus doesn't have longbowmen yet, so we could theoretically send our axers+cat stack to one of his cities at just about any time.
 
Turn 0: Switch Moscow to work a coast tile instead of a forest grassland, the additional 4 commerce saves us 3gpt!

Turn 1, 1274AD: Huayna offers rice for spices, I don’t see us benefiting from the extra healthiness so say no. Not much else happens.

Turn 2, 1280AD: Moscow finishes university and starts a musketman which will be time nicely for the arrival of Military Tradition.

Turn 3, 1286AD: Rostov Taoist monastry -> barracks. Eastern most caravel spots Indian territory (now I realise why we haven’t seen many religions yet). Decided that percepolis is losing us too much money (-11gpt) in maintenance so whip the partly complete courthouse.

Turn 4 1292AD. Whipping the courthouse saved us 6pgt, apologies if people think it’s the wrong thing to do but we are now earning gold at 70% science rather than losing money. Gandhi says hello, agree to peace get open borders. The eastern most caravel follows the coast and moves south meeting Alexander (Buddhist) in the process, Gandhi doesn’t like him!

Turn 5, 1298AD Military Tradition comes in, Gandhi has theology and wont trade it so start researching it ourselves.
Moscow, musket –> cossack.

Turn 6, 1304AD: zzz

Turn 7, 1310AD: Baracks -> Cossack in Pasargadae. Tarsus starts a catapult.
Theology is finished researching. Start on printing press.

Turn 8, 1316AD: Meet Hatshepsut, agree to peace, she’s a Buddhist too.

Turn 9, 1322AD: Not much happened, mostly workers need stuff to work on.

Turn 10 1328AD: Our first cossack is finished in Moscow start another. Yek barracks finished -> cossack. Western caravel hits land and starts going north.

Post turn stuff: Cossacks are starting to appear. We’re ready for a revolution to get theocracy for the extra XP. Taj Mahal is finished in two.
Apologies if whipping the courthouse was the wrong thing to do but it has saved us some money, it will be worth checking the tiles Persepolis is working.
Rostov has nearly finished barracks and can go cossacks.
We’ve met 3 other civ’s, rather than diving in and trading away I’ve left them so we can decide what is best then trade.
 

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Our first Cossack! :dance:

I have no problem with whipping Persepolis - it's not very hammer heavy. I would, however, reconfigure it for maximum growth+commerce after it gets whipped. We only need 2 more courthouses now in order to build the Forbidden Palace (which would be really nice) :)

It looks like we eventually grew into some unhealthiness here, so a trade to Huayna for the rice might be good.

We can reconfigure some of our Cossack cities from commerce -> production. We have what appears to be a big tech lead on every one, including the other continent, so I think production now will be more useful. Also, some of our non-Cossack cities can focus more on commerce to make up the slack (Persepolis, for instance.)

As far as our neighbors go, it looks like we got a warmonger and two peaceful ones. Alex is the biggest, having captured some of Hatty's cities, but she's pretty large as well. We should definitely try to pick up Feudalism from the Buddhists. It looks like we can see two factions right now: Gandhi+Hatty and Alexander. We should pick one of them to be our friend, but we might want to wait a little bit more to see who else we meet (and how they fall.) Also, I think if we traded for someone's map (I'm not sure if anyone would even take us up on it) we could basically circumnavigate the globe right now (trade a tech for it, not our map, of course!) I think cancelling open borders with either Gandhi or Alex, depending on which faction we want to join is a good idea, or we'll probably get "worst enemy" from both of 'em.

Revolting to Theocracy ASAP is a good idea - we want it before our Golden Age starts.

Things look good, what's our war plan? :)
 
Wohoo, I get to unleash the dogs of war once again! :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

I don't want to hurry anything, but I think the rest of Cyrus is ripe for picking. Or maybe Qin first? Have to take a look at the game.
I'll revolt to Theocracy before building the Taj Mahal, wait some more cossacks to come out, but there should be some of our out-of-date army left from last war, isn't there?

This is not yet a 'got it', but I'm already looking forward to more bloodshed!
 
Thrar said:
Wohoo, I get to unleash the dogs of war once again! :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

Lucky you! I've only gotten one city so far!

Thrar said:
I don't want to hurry anything, but I think the rest of Cyrus is ripe for picking. Or maybe Qin first? ... there should be some of our out-of-date army left from last war, isn't there?

Yes, we have 4 axers and 3 cats in Pasargadae (and the mystery crossbowman :blush: is around to take the place of an axe.) Those, with a couple of Cossacks to do the heavy lifting, could probably take/garrison/raze Cyrus's cities (and that barb one?) while we build cossacks for Qin during our GA.

Before you play, maybe we should all take a look at which cities we want to keep and which ones to raze... one moment... :hammer: I think Arbela would be worth keeping, and Tyre has two foods, 6 coasts, and is on a river. Anazi (the barb city) has two foods and a good amount of hills. A Forbidden Palace in Pasargadae soon would be nice, if we're assimilating any of these cities, I think :) I don't see an reason to keep either of the other ones.

Enjoy the war! :crazyeye:
 
This is the official 'got it'. Maybe we'll leave you someone to kill, can't take out everyone in 20 turns! ;)
 
(0) Gandhi and Hatty want no less than CS for their map. Alex doesn't even offer it. We'll have to circumnavigate manually I'm afraid.
Everybody has Feudalism, so our axes won't help us much against Cyrus. Cossacks, however, would offer strength 18 vs around 12-14 for an average longbow - enough for an easy win I think. No need to wait for catapult bombarding.
Whip university (3 pop) in St. Peter. They grow pretty fast, and have very low production. Next will be a courthouse.
Some MM in Novgorod, they can't grow any further, so I send some farmers home to their cottages. One of them goes reading some books at the library (scientist).
Fire a scientist in Rostov, to work another forest. That city still has some growth potential.
Fire two scientists in Yaro - what are they doing?!? They can grow, and have unused cottages/sea tiles!
Yekaterinburg has no barracks, and would take 16 turns for its cossack. It's a pretty average city in everything, but a courthouse won't hurt, and enable the FP when completed.
I'm almost happy with Yakutsk. Almost means that I fire the two scientists to make use of the growth potential.
Pasargadae has an artist. Hm. Gets fired for a 1/3/1 mine. After all that city's building cossacks!
Exchange some grassland cottages for floodplain ones at Persepolis. I know that city is already unhappy, but we can always whip away any excess population! Whip market for 2 pop, next will be barracks. Then we can whip some cossacks there.
Susa's at the happiness limit, reconfigure for max. hammers and commerce.

Just before clicking that red button I find that there are several workers standing around sleeping! Well, last time I checked we had some jungle to clear...give the appropriate orders. Also, there are some workers chopping forests for cottages at Pasargadae, when they could chop jungles instead. It would get that cossack out a bit faster, but I'd rather keep at two of them for health.
Finally, send the catapults and all but one axer down towards Arbela. And then click the button.
I decided not to switch to Theocracy, since many cities are building buildings. It would be one turn of anarchy, and would only affect 4 or 5 cossacks compared to after the GA. I don't know if it's even worth switching at all, we have a big military advantage anyway.

(1) Compared to the inherited one, this one's really quiet.

(2) Taj Mahal has been built, for 10 turns of a GA. Novgorod now finally builds that Pagoda, to run more than one priest.
Suddenly, bags of money appear everywhere on the coast. What a sight!

1340AD-bagsofmoney.jpg


(3) We meet Frederick! He's located below Hatty who in turn is below Alex. And - behold - he's pleased or friendly with EVERYONE! Also, he's the only one in the world who has Engineering, not available for trade though.
The only ones who really don't like each other are Alex and Gandhi. Hatty and Fred don't seem to care much.

Whip Pagoda in Novgorod for 4 pop. They have big food income, and then will finally be able to get us a priest.

(4) Printing Press comes in. Next will be Feudalism->Guilds->Banking, we'll need that for many things.

(5) Some cities finish things, but nothing exciting really.

(6) Feudalism->Guilds. We circumnavigated, I expect the message to come up next turn. Lots of workers chop jungle, there's nothing else to do for them.
Our first cossack arrives at the persian border, where our catapults are gathered. This means: :hammer:
Horns sound, and our forces (3 cats, 3 axers, 1 cossack) cross the border.
Whip another cossack for 4 pop at Pasargadae, to get rid of unhappiness there. Persepolis will follow as soon as they can. Everywhere else, people are still happy.

(7) Someone founds a religion called Islam.
We get the circumnavigation as expected. Our first cossack gets in its first kill (an immortal out in the open).
Arbela is on a hill, and there's a CDII longbow in it. Strength 17.10, altogether. More than I expected, but still weaker than a cossack.
By the way, nobody, I mean nobody, has Guilds. Economics for the GM will be uncontested.
Down south, in one of Hatty's cities, we see an aztec Jaguar warrior. Monty gets along well with everyone except Gandhi. I'm not sure why, but he gives us a "traded with worst enemy" modifier. He's the only one to do that, though.
Rice for Spice from HC. I forgot about that earlier.

(8) Persepolis can finally poprush a cossack, to get rid of unhappiness.

(9) Hangzhou in the north flips and gets disbanded. We get a longbow for free.
Guilds->Banking.
After some more bombardment, our cossacks go take a look at Arbela. There's one longbow, 2 archers, and an immortal. In short: we kill them all, no losses (fortunate 30% axeman battle), and take Arbela.
Two more cossack reinforcements arrive (the enslaved ones from Pasargadae and Persepolis). That makes a total of four. Gordium has one longbow, two archers and a spear, it's not on a hill. Will be easy pickings.

(10) Gordium is ripe. 4 cossacks can attack next turn. Remember to raze that city!!!
I set both our caravels on 'explore', I don't see anything left for them to do.
 
It looks like the war is going well :goodjob:

Thrar said:
I set both our caravels on 'explore', I don't see anything left for them to do.

We should send one of them to Moscow to pick up our great merchant from Economics :)

I'm a bit confused as to watermills in Pasargadae - it seemed to me like it would be a good commerce city (with all those spices & silks), so I just assumed we'd put cottages there. I figure, with it's hills, it will have enough production to get by... but really, I pretty much only use watermills after state property as a replacement to farms, so I could be missing something.

Thrar said:
Fire two scientists in Yaro - what are they doing?!? They can grow, and have unused cottages/sea tiles!

The computer really likes to assign 'em if you're running Representation. I've started, in my SP games, to turn off the city governor (like normal) and then assign every city to emphasize food and then either commerce, production, or nothing else (depending on it's role.) Otherwise, I have watch city growth like a hawk to make sure they don't stupidly assign, say, an Artist :crazyeye:
This way, I can check in every so often and it's usually about what I want.

One thing to watch carefully: one of our cities (St. Pete?) is finishing it's courthouse in a few turns. After that, we can build the Forbidden Palace. I recommend interrupting whatever's being built in Pasargadae and building it there immediately... it will really help our economy, and we want it in place once we start taking on Qin.

I'd like to see Novgorod start running the priests as soon as possible, even if it slows it's growth or production a bit. We're at the point in game now (Banks!) where shrines really start to shine. Also, we'll probably want two prophets eventually (for the Christian holy city, too.)

So, who's up next? Xtream, are you back yet? :)
 
okay heres how it went down my turn i only did 8 turns so any1 can have the rest ;)

turn1: banking is done Revoultion for merclision started on enginering

Battle for Gordium

Cosak killls long bow man
Cosak kills spear man
Cosak kills archer
Cosak kills archer

We TAKE GORDiuM :woohoo:

Turn2: Golden age ends :cry:
Cosak kills swordsman

Turn3: Fredrik offers open borders i accept
turn 4: Enegering -> Economics
Arbela Theater -> Pikeman
The Battle of Bactra

Cosak kills longbowman
Nikolai kills archer
We take Bactra :woohoo:

Turn 6:Susa Harbar -> Pike man
turn 7: Hapshepsut cancles Open borders
Cosak kills longbowman
In anasasi Barb city
Cosak kills a longbowman
turn8: Barbs take Bactra :cry: :eek:
Cosak kills last Cyrus Long Bow man

CYRUS IS FINISHed :woohoo:
 
Okay, a kind of a got it... I've taken a look at the save, but it's past bed time, so I'll just make a couple of quick comments/questions. I'll play once we're all on the same page (and I have time :))

1) We're running Mercantilism. I didn't see any discussion about this at all... changing civics is definitely something that should be discussed ahead of time, especially as Mercantilism is usually inferior to even the base economic civic. That being said, I think it's actually good in our case. (short version for now: Astronomy = very bad for us because of Colussus; once we declare on Qin + Huayna, we lose foreign trade routes until we get Astronomy. Running mercantilism lets us get a benefit for our own self-imposed "no foreign trade routes" if we delay Astronomy, and has some really nice synergy with Representation.)

2) We didn't raze any cities in the south... we needed to raze at least one or two, as their food sources overlap. Thrar made this point in bold in his post... :( I don't know how razing works in the case of Bactra, since the barbs captured it. We need to decide if we want to capture+raze the barbarian town (Anazi- we have a Cossack ready to strike IBT, with an 88% chance of winning.) Personally, that's what I'd lean towards. Bactra can be a decent city if it works both of its deer+lots of tundra lumbermills eventually (and I think it's going to be ours whether we like it our now, though we can let the barbs have it a bit :)). Tyre & Gordium are coastal cities, so they're fine - they can pay for themselves working 2F3C (or 4C while we still have the Colossus.) Tyre also gives us snow crabs & deer (+2 health, +3 in coastal cities.)

3) We need to choose a tech to go for after Economics (:goodjob: sending the caravel back for the merchant, Xtream!) I was looking at a few paths, but one really jumps out at me: Chemistry (Grens never hurt) -> Scientific Method (nothing really, just opens up doors) -> Communism (most importantly, can run State Property, but also Kremlin & Spies.) Right now, we could get it in 31 turns at 60% science (which we're making a profit on); if we burn through our Great Merchant's gold, however, that will go down to probably 25 at most. It will take at least 20 turns to build the Forbidden Palace, but why should we even bother if we go this route? Just build a couple of cossacks instead ;) Plus, State Property+Chemistry+Guilds lets us make amazing workships to turn any city into a production monster (2F3P or 1F4P, better than mines pre-railroad.) Plus, it's on the way to steel, so with the Cossack+Cannon+Gren combo, we can be military set until the modern era.

4) I assume Qin's next, right? Which cities of his are worth keeping, and which are worth razing? I almost wonder if Huayna might be better - he's the top dog in the game now (except for us, of course :lol:) so he's more likely to get Rifling and put up a real threat (muskets are actually safer than longbowmen, since they don't get a hill bonus :rolleyes:)
 
armstrong said:
We didn't raze any cities in the south...

Damn, I knew it. Ok, I hate being an *******, but I'm really getting annoyed by this. An SG is supposed to be a succession of players aiming at the same goals, with communication about that, and not doing the contrary of what everyone else suggests.

To make it short: I suggest armstrong replays the last turnset and we continue with one player less.
 
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