Mediterranean Resources Tips & Discussion
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- Start date
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Ok, here is a 'cheat sheet' of what the tiles will produce in despotism:
I might have made a mistake, so let me know, so I can correct it.
These are not taking into account rivers (for commerce), but I always slap a road on the tile if I'm going to be using that tile anyways (and of course you need roads to hook up the ones that are luxuries).
Lambs:
Hills-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
Plains-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
3/1/0 if irrigate
Irrigate lambs on plains!
Sheep:
Hills-2/2/0 default
2/3/0 if mined
Plains-2/2/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
3/2/0 if irrigated
Irrigate Sheep on plains!
Wool:
Hills-2/2/1 default
2/3/1 if mined
Plains- 2/2/1 default
2/2/1 if mined
3/2/1 if irrigated
Irrigate wool on plains!
Oysters:
2/0/2 default
3/0/2 with harbor
Pearls:
2/0/4 default
3/0/4 with harbor
Coastal Rocks:
1/1/2 default
2/1/2 with harbor
Goats:
Desert-2/2/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
2/2/0 if irrigated
Hills-2/2/0 default
2/3/0 if mined
Mountains-
2/2/0 default
2/3/0 if mined
Just slap a road on those goats in desert!
Menudo (young goats):
Desert-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
2/1/0 if irrigated
Hills-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
Mountains-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
Mine those young goats in desert!
Olives:
Desert-2/1/1 default
2/2/1 if mined
2/1/1 if irrigated
Hills-2/1/1 default
2/2/1 if mined
Mountains-2/1/1 default
2/2/1 if mined
Mine those olives on desert!
Cotton:
Desert-0/2/2 default
0/2/2 if mined
1/2/2 if irrigated
Plains-1/2/2 default
1/2/2 if mined
2/2/2 if irrigated
irrigate that cotton!
I might have made a mistake, so let me know, so I can correct it.
These are not taking into account rivers (for commerce), but I always slap a road on the tile if I'm going to be using that tile anyways (and of course you need roads to hook up the ones that are luxuries).
Lambs:
Hills-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
Plains-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
3/1/0 if irrigate
Irrigate lambs on plains!
Sheep:
Hills-2/2/0 default
2/3/0 if mined
Plains-2/2/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
3/2/0 if irrigated
Irrigate Sheep on plains!
Wool:
Hills-2/2/1 default
2/3/1 if mined
Plains- 2/2/1 default
2/2/1 if mined
3/2/1 if irrigated
Irrigate wool on plains!
Oysters:
2/0/2 default
3/0/2 with harbor
Pearls:
2/0/4 default
3/0/4 with harbor
Coastal Rocks:
1/1/2 default
2/1/2 with harbor
Goats:
Desert-2/2/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
2/2/0 if irrigated
Hills-2/2/0 default
2/3/0 if mined
Mountains-
2/2/0 default
2/3/0 if mined
Just slap a road on those goats in desert!
Menudo (young goats):
Desert-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
2/1/0 if irrigated
Hills-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
Mountains-2/1/0 default
2/2/0 if mined
Mine those young goats in desert!
Olives:
Desert-2/1/1 default
2/2/1 if mined
2/1/1 if irrigated
Hills-2/1/1 default
2/2/1 if mined
Mountains-2/1/1 default
2/2/1 if mined
Mine those olives on desert!
Cotton:
Desert-0/2/2 default
0/2/2 if mined
1/2/2 if irrigated
Plains-1/2/2 default
1/2/2 if mined
2/2/2 if irrigated
irrigate that cotton!
CruddyLeper
Unworshipped Deity
Wow! Well exceeded my expectations! Nice job Cracker and the Team.
Interesting that Goats and Olives produce food on Mountains, so getting a mountainous start isn't the usual downer.
Also interesting that a lot of the +1 food bonuses occur on plains - maybe this is a balancing move to give the AIs a chance on lower difficulty level?
Not really looking forward to the download... but hey, no pain, no gain.
Interesting that Goats and Olives produce food on Mountains, so getting a mountainous start isn't the usual downer.
Also interesting that a lot of the +1 food bonuses occur on plains - maybe this is a balancing move to give the AIs a chance on lower difficulty level?
Not really looking forward to the download... but hey, no pain, no gain.
Strider
In Retrospect
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 8,984
Thanks Bamspeedy.... *goes about inserting the list into wordpad to use during the game*
Downloads aren't a problem with me (DSL). So right now I can't wait for it to come out.... My only worry is the stupid mistakes I often make over the little things.... Like downloading all the stuff etc.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
Just a note, Actually the "only +5 shields" is rather misleading. Many of these resources occur on terrain that can be improved to produce large numbers of shields. A mined,roaded wool hill square will be a complete powerhouse.
In Despotism - Raw 2/2/1 (Power 5) , improved 2/3/2 (Power 7)
In other - 3/2/2 raw(power 7), 3/4/2 (power 9!!!)
It is similar but not as extreme for some of the other resources.
I expect that it will be quite easy to power up a lot of production due to these bonuses.
One strategic drawback will be that the expected large amount of hills will slow expansion just due to the time it takes our workers to improve the terrain. This should actually help us a lot. It has been well documented that the AI is horrible at using its workers intelligently.
Should be lots of fun.
Dislak
Chieftain
hey bamspeedy-
correct me if i'm wrong, but I think there is a problem with your irrigated lambs. It shouldn't have the 2 to shields, only 1 since it can't be both mined and irrigated.
edit: spelled word wrong
correct me if i'm wrong, but I think there is a problem with your irrigated lambs. It shouldn't have the 2 to shields, only 1 since it can't be both mined and irrigated.
edit: spelled word wrong
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Thank you Dislak. Just edited it.
That does make it more of a choice between irrigation/mining, but I still recommend irrigating it. Sounds like production won't be a problem, but getting more than 2 food will be.
That does make it more of a choice between irrigation/mining, but I still recommend irrigating it. Sounds like production won't be a problem, but getting more than 2 food will be.
RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
This looks like the corollary to the earlier GOTM where huge excesses of food, but weak shields was an environmental hazard of the flood plain start. Cracker loves to challenge us to think outside the box, but perhaps he likes to challenge himself occasionally too? Regardless, I'm looking forward to it. It'll also be nice to see the terrain match the real thing.
Perhaps the limited movement allowed by the terrain is another indicator: Since groups further apart would not have communicated as much, they would have been culturally separate - perhaps their will be move civs to start? Also, to take a lesson from history, water was the highway of the ancients, and groups bordering on the same body were often better connected / related than groups only a few miles inland. Go for galleys early, and build harbors to form your trade links!
This'll be my first GOTM, but I'm gonna punish myself by going for the open class. Thanks to BamSpeedy for the cheat sheet.
Perhaps the limited movement allowed by the terrain is another indicator: Since groups further apart would not have communicated as much, they would have been culturally separate - perhaps their will be move civs to start? Also, to take a lesson from history, water was the highway of the ancients, and groups bordering on the same body were often better connected / related than groups only a few miles inland. Go for galleys early, and build harbors to form your trade links!
This'll be my first GOTM, but I'm gonna punish myself by going for the open class. Thanks to BamSpeedy for the cheat sheet.
scubagtr
Scuba Gator
Mountianous terrian separating eveyone? Now would be a good time to have that stupid Spanish UU, that I never used. 
denyd
Emperor
ScubaGtr,
Hey a fortified Hoplite on a mountain is like having riflemen in the AA!!
Probably need to get the scouts out early, make as many contacts as possible. At least playing open class (my choice for GOTM21), I won't be facing the deity AI's the predators will.
Deny
Hey a fortified Hoplite on a mountain is like having riflemen in the AA!!
Probably need to get the scouts out early, make as many contacts as possible. At least playing open class (my choice for GOTM21), I won't be facing the deity AI's the predators will.
Deny
scubagtr
Scuba Gator
Now I really wish we could build cities in the mountains. 
Txurce
Deity
Bamspeedy, thanks for making it possible for me to play the game at a reasonable speed.
On the speculative front: Cracker has gone to a lot of effort with these geographically-accurate resources, so the odds are good that the potential Greek core terrain will be relatively arid. In that case, I would expect to see a limited amount of the food bonus tiles, pushing us to build either coastal cities, cities with shared resources, or... least beneficial... the equivalent of Greek city-states, with a supercity dominating scraggly little Sergio Leone outposts.
Edit: regarding worker-strategies, we will probably find ourselves with choices not normally faced in the early game - like whether it's worth mining a hill with a resource, despite not having industrious workers. Another, less likely, could be weighing the benefits of building an AI-style irrigation canal.
On the speculative front: Cracker has gone to a lot of effort with these geographically-accurate resources, so the odds are good that the potential Greek core terrain will be relatively arid. In that case, I would expect to see a limited amount of the food bonus tiles, pushing us to build either coastal cities, cities with shared resources, or... least beneficial... the equivalent of Greek city-states, with a supercity dominating scraggly little Sergio Leone outposts.
Edit: regarding worker-strategies, we will probably find ourselves with choices not normally faced in the early game - like whether it's worth mining a hill with a resource, despite not having industrious workers. Another, less likely, could be weighing the benefits of building an AI-style irrigation canal.
JonathanValjean
Porschephile
Great work, Cracker! I'm really looking forward to those new additions! (Now, if I can just get around to playing GOTM20. A couple of trips have really put me behind...)
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Wow! This is going to be interesting.
Bamspeedy, thanks for the Values. I put together my own Excel table. The file is in the Uploads Directory. All the values are adjusted for Despotism and have an * next to values that would be higher out of Despotism. I added Flood Plains, just in case a bonus on a desert square can also be a Flood Plain (Desert with river).
Here's a JPG version:
I highlighted some things of interest.
Green - Food above 2 after improvements.
Blue - Sheilds above 2 after improvements.
Red - If the tile is next to a river, you wouldn't get an extra commerce from roading.
Purple - The better choice of improvement given terrain. Note that only the Plains and Desert even have a choice.
Yellow - Goats on Desert can not be improved other than roading it in Despotism.
Coastal Tile bonuses will still benefit from a harbor since all food bonuses are 2 and already reduced in despotism.
Always mine Menudo and Olives, always irrigate cotton. Anyone who's had cotton mouth knows you need more water.
Bamspeedy, thanks for the Values. I put together my own Excel table. The file is in the Uploads Directory. All the values are adjusted for Despotism and have an * next to values that would be higher out of Despotism. I added Flood Plains, just in case a bonus on a desert square can also be a Flood Plain (Desert with river).
Here's a JPG version:
I highlighted some things of interest.
Green - Food above 2 after improvements.
Blue - Sheilds above 2 after improvements.
Red - If the tile is next to a river, you wouldn't get an extra commerce from roading.
Purple - The better choice of improvement given terrain. Note that only the Plains and Desert even have a choice.
Yellow - Goats on Desert can not be improved other than roading it in Despotism.
Coastal Tile bonuses will still benefit from a harbor since all food bonuses are 2 and already reduced in despotism.
Always mine Menudo and Olives, always irrigate cotton. Anyone who's had cotton mouth knows you need more water.
nini1972
ruminating citizen
Hallo anyone,
not very appropriate to your discussion on what should be mined and what should never be, but I never saw olives growing up above 500-600 mt.
[I think we can agree that mountains is something like 1.000 meters at least!]
not very appropriate to your discussion on what should be mined and what should never be, but I never saw olives growing up above 500-600 mt.
[I think we can agree that mountains is something like 1.000 meters at least!]
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
What I think the world will be...
Very few grasslands, many plains, hills, mountains, some deserts, at least in our starting landmass. It will be very arid : very few/no lake or river. So the economic challenge at the start will be to make the best use of those special new resources... Will they need to bring fresh water from somewhere or just mine them now ? Coastal works will be important too, but I can't think much about it now. At least, with hoplites, we will have to make the best grab land phase we can with those resources, without worrying much about military. I hope I'm not wrong there...
Very few grasslands, many plains, hills, mountains, some deserts, at least in our starting landmass. It will be very arid : very few/no lake or river. So the economic challenge at the start will be to make the best use of those special new resources... Will they need to bring fresh water from somewhere or just mine them now ? Coastal works will be important too, but I can't think much about it now. At least, with hoplites, we will have to make the best grab land phase we can with those resources, without worrying much about military. I hope I'm not wrong there...
RufRydyr
QSC Map Maker
Thx to ControlFreak and Bamspeedy for the data. Sometimes I can't rap my little mind around too much, but a pic is worth a thousand words. (So how many words is a video worth?)
I think the additions will benefit the experienced players more than the newbies. So I'm happy about that!
Great idea to boost hills and mtns.
I think the additions will benefit the experienced players more than the newbies. So I'm happy about that!
Great idea to boost hills and mtns.
zagnut
Monarch
Thanks Bamspeedy and Control Freak. Your work certainly makes it easier to play the game.
Zwingli
Prince
It looks like many of the new resources are terrain shifted versions of bonus resources which appear under default settings.
Goats/Sheep = Terrain shifted cows
Menudo/lambs = Terrain shifted wheat
Olives/Wool = Food effect of Terrain shifted wheat (but has further bonus).
Oysters/Pearls = Similar to Fish.
Cotton = Terrain shifted furs
Coastal rocks don't have an analogous counterpart in the default game, but rembering the other analogies might help to get an intuitive understanding of the effects of the new resources.
Goats/Sheep = Terrain shifted cows
Menudo/lambs = Terrain shifted wheat
Olives/Wool = Food effect of Terrain shifted wheat (but has further bonus).
Oysters/Pearls = Similar to Fish.
Cotton = Terrain shifted furs
Coastal rocks don't have an analogous counterpart in the default game, but rembering the other analogies might help to get an intuitive understanding of the effects of the new resources.
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