Mehmed Immortal Cookbook

[hzf]

Just want to add that this is a really fun map. I played a little further into it and a few really interesting things happened. My only criticism is:

Spoiler :

The abundant forests for GLH makes is a bit easy. I managed a 9xxAD lib>astro and stopped, feeling that I could not really lose at that point.

 

[kossin]

@hzf

Spoiler :

Here's the dilemma: the game is too hard, people complain and don't play. (Mansa)

The game is bringing new concepts, not too hard not too easy... people lose interest (Montezuma)

The game is easy... people play a lot more, more discussion, more everything... and a few find it too easy.

I could try running a few Deity games but I'd feel bad to not participate in them as I don't have much playing time as of the last 2 months.

Anywho, fun and learning... fun and learning...

 

[dirtyparrot]

I decided to have a little fun and play a round. I'll throw my save into the mix.

Spoiler :

I started off like I'm sure that most did with a worker and teching to AH. I think after that I teched Fishing, Mysticism, Masonry, and BW.

With stone so nearby it's really tough for me not to go for the stone wonders. I got failure gold for Stonehenge, build TGW and the Pyramids. MM has been OK. Probably cost myself a few turns not working the pigs for my settler. Plan on chopping out TGL and then teching Writing then Math (for HG could use that health bonus with all that jungle) while spamming coastal cities. I got a barb archer to the south spawn busting barb galleys for me.

Judging from Giggles EP distribution there are probably a couple more civs on his landmass, so it will be worth sending a wb exploring.

Screenshots:

Spoiler :

 

[Grashopa]

Here's my save

Spoiler :

I settled west and went pottery - AH - mining - fishing. Worker, warrior, warrior was enough warriors to spawn bust as you can see I ran into 5 animals to get my W2 early.

I thought the rice square was spawn busted so I moved the warrior there up north where he got archered. 9/10 W2 warrior is healing in the capital. Can always build an axe if the barbs swarm..

The cottages mean we're close to MC.. Stone city is doing up the pyramids so we can knock out a couple settlers before the colossus... Workboat is out giving us very valuable trade routes with the Great Lighthouse. I would plan to settle behind the capital first before going up into the jungle areas I think.. Share stone pig and the capital pig with a couple cities, nab that crabs down south as well maybe..

 

[kossin]

@dirtyparrot
Pretty spoilers please?

 

[drlake]

Grrr, lost my notes so decided to run this again, and my wife came home from work early. I'll finish and post tomorrow sometime. Did get TGW, for what its worth (I like it on maps like this).

 

[obsolete]

Here's the dilemma: the game is too hard, people complain and don't play. (Mansa)

I never complain if a game seems hard to many, it's only when the game is hard due to no food resources in capital (cow glitch, etc.).

 

[obsolete]

BTW, I didn't want to wait last night so I played on from my last save. Finished up with a domination win, so I won't be taking part in the continues I guess.

 

[kossin]

BTW, I didn't want to wait last night so I played on from my last save. Finished up with a domination win, so I won't be taking part in the continues I guess.

I see absolutely no problem with this.

Seeing as the lack of a weekly Immortal University... would anyone be interested in 1 week games as well?

 

[nishant1911]

@vranasm / @nishant1911 / anyone who’s played through to T70:

Spoiler :

(i) after settling if you see lots of forest around (and those forests wouldn't be needed) and if you 'feel' that your workers will not lag behind the rate you acquire worker techs. go for 2 worker start. e.g. we here start with wheel+agriculture.
wheel gets ur worker busy for a long time.

i don't remember the exact worker action but from settling capital and bw is about 27-29 turns away. 13 turns for initial worker ,grow to size 5(building warrior) then another worker(manually) in the meantime you will see first worker has enough things to do. (pigs)+(unforested hill)+(farm-high priority)+(road to your next city). and after BW you will want to chop ur worker settlers out.
in normal cases i tend to leave out few forests for mathematics+bureaucratic chopping but in this map you have hammams and i am going for early wonders so i chopped everything, not just BFC but third ring too.
do not show any mercy on forests, it is arguable that 1hammer at 2500 BC is worth same as 2 hammer at about 1 ad.

(ii)firstly i don't remember exact worker action,but it can be safely summarized by this...i chopped . i left out 'building some mines' for chopping. all this would have been even better if i had whipped something.
and i didn't settled edrine for stone as you can see it has yet to pop borders and stone lies in 2nd ring. i settled it to help in rex for the upcoming glh. also if i remember correctly ,barbs don't enter the borders till about 2000BC on immortal and i got my first axeman exactly at about that time. no need to fogbust when you have copper as you can see i have an axeman about 7/10 and it needs more barbs for 10.

(iii)clams suck. they provide just 1 extra commerce than a farmed floodplain. you will want to have a fish instead with financial to make it worth.

 

[CivConVict]

I see absolutely no problem with this.

Seeing as the lack of a weekly Immortal University... would anyone be interested in 1 week games as well?

Yes, although probably not weekly.

 

[cripp7]

My 70t

Spoiler :

Basically SIP, techs AH>mining>masonry>bw>fish>sailing
builds worker>warrior(until size 2)>settler>warrior>warrior>worker>mids>lh>tgl
settled hill beside stone, started GW>settler>wb

Spoiler :

 

[learner gamer]

@nishant1911: Thanks very much for your feedback, much appreciated.

@Grashopa:

Spoiler :

That’s a brilliant save...particularly given the point I made in my OP re: wanting raw hammers instead of cottages. Yet again, you’ve illustrated just how little I know about the game.

FWIW, your start inspired me to try again by settling 1W...and I have to say that the results were terrific. Indeed, they were much closer to what I had in mind (but didn’t think I could achieve) by going for the early cottages, because getting them addresses what I think is a key point in Dhoom’s OP re: needing a number of early techs (and therefore some commerce to get them.)

Having looked through your save in detail, the other thing that stands out for me is your micro, because I noted that you somehow managed to tech sailing and masonry one turn earlier than I did in my re-run, and BW three turns earlier (the latter of which matters a great deal, given the need to improve the capital’s forested hills to get hammers.) I don’t suppose you recall whether you did anything special, for example re: your choice of tiles to work, to speed up the teching of BW?

I have three other questions for you if I may. The first concerns your choice of location for Edirne (for the stone). Was there any particular reason why you settled it on the plains tile instead of the grassland hill (to get the stone in the inner ring of the BFC)? Was it purely to get access to the wheat for an early food source, or was there also something else?

The second concerns your decision to build the 'mids in Edirne and a settler in the capital. Again, was there any reason why you chose to make the builds in those cities, as opposed to building the settler in Edirne and the 'mids in the capital? Were you, for instance, trying to keep the capital’s gene pool clean (to get GMs) or was it simply that you could get the 'mids out earlier in Edirne?

Lastly, what was it that governed your decision to tech metal casting after writing? Did your decision reflect (i) your view that MC would be good trade bait (ii) is on the path to gunpowder and (iii) opens up The Colossus (which relates back to my question re: whether you’re specifically looking for GM points in the capital)? The reason I ask is that I happened to finish that set by starting to researching maths to gain access to the Hanging Gardens. Although I appreciate that maths won’t be great trade bait, I’m trying to understand why you decided to ignore leveraging the stone to obtain more GE points, in favour of some GMs.

Thanks for any feedback you can give. Once again, great save!

 

[Yoshi1]

Here is a suggestion maybe, don't do a normal Deity.
We all know by now that only a few ppl *want* to play and enjoy it on normal settings.

Instead, give the player an extra worker, a settler and a archer, or something like that.
The Ai will still expand much faster than an average player, but now more than 5% of the player base would have a chance and maybe a nice challenge.

 

[kossin]

Here is a suggestion maybe, don't do a normal Deity.
We all know by now that only a few ppl *want* to play and enjoy it on normal settings.

Instead, give the player an extra worker, a settler and a archer, or something like that.
The Ai will still expand much faster than an average player, but now more than 5% of the player base would have a chance and maybe a nice challenge.

Meh. I can see Immortal+ (give another settler to AI) or Deity-(remove extra settler for AI) but this is too far away from a normal game.

Handicap to the AI vs bonus to the human.

 

[nishant1911]

here is another suggestion
modify deity difficulty from AIhandicapinfo.xml such that AI start with same conditions as player with an exception of archery and 1 starting archer instead of a warrior, but increase their bonuses from 60 to 50%.
this way players wouldn't feel horribly outdone in everything from the start of the game and thus have the motivation to play ,but the game will go increasingly difficult as it progresses.

edit: when i say same conditions i mean AI starting with 1 settler and 1 archer with no bonus to barbs,no extra techs except archery,no -1 diplo penalty,no ridiculous WFYABTA and such.
just the overall production/research/growth etc. bonuses.

 

[Grashopa]

lg

Spoiler :

"Having looked through your save in detail, the other thing that stands out for me is your micro, because I noted that you somehow managed to tech sailing and masonry one turn earlier than I did in my re-run, and BW three turns earlier (the latter of which matters a great deal, given the need to improve the capital’s forested hills to get hammers.) I don’t suppose you recall whether you did anything special, for example re: your choice of tiles to work, to speed up the teching of BW?"

I focused on commerce and did not use the pigs after happy cap for most of the time.

"I have three other questions for you if I may. The first concerns your choice of location for Edirne (for the stone). Was there any particular reason why you settled it on the plains tile instead of the grassland hill (to get the stone in the inner ring of the BFC)? Was it purely to get access to the wheat for an early food source, or was there also something else?"

I settled Edirne because of all the hills, no need to get stone up quick and so that I can fit more coastal cities in sharing the pigs.

"The second concerns your decision to build the 'mids in Edirne and a settler in the capital. Again, was there any reason why you chose to make the builds in those cities, as opposed to building the settler in Edirne and the 'mids in the capital? Were you, for instance, trying to keep the capital’s gene pool clean (to get GMs) or was it simply that you could get the 'mids out earlier in Edirne?"

I want Great Merchants as a GE doesn't speed me toward the win here, stone city had forests to chop reserving capital forests for colossus, capital can knock out 2 settlers then get started on forge just as MC comes in while stone city needs to grow.

"Lastly, what was it that governed your decision to tech metal casting after writing? Did your decision reflect (i) your view that MC would be good trade bait (i) is on the path to gunpowder and (iii) opens up The Colossus (which relates back to my question re: whether you’re specifically looking for GM points in the capital)? The reason I ask is that I happened to finish that set by starting to researching maths to gain access to the Hanging Gardens. Although I appreciate that maths won’t be great trade bait, I’m trying to understand why you decided to ignore leveraging the stone to obtain more GE points, in favour of some GMs."

Great Merchant means lots of gold which means we get to rifles/steel faster and/or troops upgrades. Math you can trade for and with Rep coming you won't bother to build the hammams anytime soon anyway. ( Think library - 2 scientists slowing your growth ) In fact I'm most likely to go after Code of Laws next for caste so the new cities can switch to scientists as fast as possible. Though colossus makes you want to happy cap on coastal tiles first...

 

[Grashopa]

Modifying deity doesn't help you improve, in fact it will hurt you in future deity attempts because the most important knowledge in this game is knowing how fast the AIs are so you know when you have to get things done (wonders, techs for trade, barbs, settlers)

 

[babybluepants]

I don't understand why we'd artificially modify Deity if the purpose of the series is learning.

Just get someone to have a look at the generated save for difficulty. Maybe avoid (semi-)iso, crazy warmongers next door, super quick box-ins, general lack of food, etc. In other words, find a map that's reasonably winnable for players that struggle on Deity.

 

[kossin]

If I decide to run a few deity maps, they'll be real deity. Modifying deity can be done by individuals imo.