Merz01 - Monarch OCC, Straight Up

Good points afpunk. I do love monasteries for the + to research, but it's hard to found religions on Monarch, so we would have to deviate from the master beeline somewhat (costing us turns to Education, etc). Definitely the great debate is between philosophical and industrious. I guess we'll see. I'm hoping people will play better than I have since I still haven't won a private Monarch OCC since the patches (out of maybe 5 attempts).
 
One tip for the homies... one thing we need to get is Heroic Epic. The hard part is this requires a unit with 10+ experience. This is pretty much impossible just with fighting barbs, but I've developed an easy way to get this. At some point in the game there will be a very weak civ that everyone hates. Just declare on that civ or join a war against that civ, and send a couple units over to fight. Once one gets 10+ experience, give him the 3rd promotion and we can build the epic (with Literature of course).
 
@afpunk: I hope you aren't one of those quiet lurkers. It would be nice to use your experience. I've only been in two OCC SG's; one a Space win and the other an AW that we are slowly bleeding to death on :blush: .

@Merzbow: I believe the uploads problem is only on your end. I've uploaded a test save and looking at Uploads10 I see uploads roughly every several minutes all day long. The problem must be on your end. Do you have a firewall or some other sort of security that could be blocking it?
 
Methos said:
@Merzbow: I believe the uploads problem is only on your end. I've uploaded a test save and looking at Uploads10 I see uploads roughly every several minutes all day long. The problem must be on your end. Do you have a firewall or some other sort of security that could be blocking it?

No firewall. I've changed nothing recently. Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore now that I have my own web storage. I'll just host all my photos and files there.
 
Not for sure about that site you are using to host the save. My security sure didn't like it.

I believe afpunk was stating that due to using Saladin he was able to get several religions, and thereby gain the benefits from monastaries. I did not get that he was stating we should attempt that. My interpertation anyway.
 
A good start. I think we are a little shy on the resources but if we are smart we can overcome this. Go us! (Well Germany anyway).
 
Liq said
Saladin is spiritual and philo with camel archers being a relatively worthless UU for the occ.. as we are looking for deterant, not a war, knights obsolete too fast. Civ starts with a warrior.

afpunk said
However, my favorite leader hasn't come up at all. I love Saladin for many reasons. Philosophical gives you twice the great people until Philosophy, and then 50% more than normal at that point. Since great people are your science and production, that's a pretty necessary trait.

Liq said :confused:


other than that, Got it! I think.. yah dl'd fine.

As for the screenshot utility, thanks again for the heads up mertz I will test drive it.

To counter your advice might I suggest civscale from the blue marble package, it can eleminate clouds so that the pull away view is readable.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140246&highlight=blue+marble

to reiterate earlier advice from mertz...
an improved civlopedia over at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=148253
was updated for 1.52 patch.

will post turns after some food and drink.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
Eternal thanks for the link to CivScale, finally those darn clouds are gone.
 
Preflight:

hehe, I add capturewinpro as just one more of my legion of civ sg tools in the other monitor. too bad all the colors for the toolbar are garish looking.

oh also using notetab light as a textpad replacement... on the pre 1.52 crashes, I lost so many writeups because I forgot to save after every text entry, I moved to this program... it's really sweet.

ok sort of limited on resources but our normal tiles are all food rich and we are on a river. A good mix of forests (5) as well, not bad.

since buildling a worker change from working a forest tile to working the third flood plains for the extra coin, cuts a turn off meditation..


[1]2800 BC

worker is built whom I name Mel Lentz...
P2_gog_fea_Mel_Lentz_saw.jpg

the man Jerry McKinnis of ESPN2's "The Fishin' Hole" says..
[lumberjack competitions are] certainly a compelling sport, one where there is a legitimate hero in the lumberjack world.

His name is Mel Lentz. And he is my hero...


yah ok! shame on you for not knowing all that!!!:crazyeye:

start on another worker since they gonna be near the same archer, that allows the cutting to go faster and allows me to stay on the flood plain for the extra commerce. worker two in 10 turns.

Mel heads off to the closest forest out of the city radius SW where he and Leo the archer will hook up.

ok that was the entertainment for this boring turn!

[2]2760 BC
ooooo Gazebo's telephone moma comes over the www.cbs.nu yes, the 80's disco terror is arriving as we speak!!


start mel chopping.. says 30 hammahs

[3]2720 BC
lumberjack fun!

[4]2680 BC
forest cuts for 30 hammers and worker in 2. moving to next forest.

[5]2640 BC
Cyrus converts to hinduism.
next forest is 25 hammers.

[6]2600 BC
jbeckett.jpg

Justin Beckett (the worker) is born in Berlin and heads over to the sw... archer in 9 as I switch back to working a plains forest.

meditation came in, priesthood in 7 (was 6 working flood plains).

[7]2560 BC
zzzz:sleep:

[8]2520 BC
oooh score, victoria says hi... 3/3 on no psychos! after zav04 with toku only like 20 tiles seperating our capitals, I relish the sane civ leaders!

[9]2480 BC
mel finishes his chop, archer in one turn... moves onto next.

Sven the archer will buddy up with mel prolly. start on a barracks before next archer.... it needs the chops more than the archer.

[10]2440 BC
mel and sven heading to the nw to chop

10 turns on barracks

[11]2400 BC
a lion pokes it's head out in the NW, mel and sven and paired so np.

[12]2360 BC
Judaism is founded somewhere.

[13]2320 BC
priesthood comes in, writing in 12 oracle takes 22 turns on a high hammer diet. we need barracks and archer to finish.

[14]2280 BC
45 hammers from two chops comes in, barracks in 1.

[15]2240 BC
barracks finishes and archer in 1 turn, queue up oracle to build after archer.


ok finished 2 workers and 2 archers... a 4 exp archer is due next turn for city garrison. barbs soon so keep him there.

crucial next step is make sure writing comes in before oracle finishes so we can grab code of laws. Careful with those chops!:eek:


berlin_2240_BC003.jpg

I switched berlin over to a high food/beaker setup to speed up max happy population and take writing down to 9 turns... play with the tiles to minimize the time it takes to get oracle + code of laws. if a few dead turns building a few scouts is fine!

next tech is masonry for pyramids, Animal husbandry to hook up the cows is important as well but masonry first.

5 is max happiness click stop growth next round.

berlin_2240_BC002.jpg

not much else to show other than no souts killed.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK...

lumbr4.jpg


Merzbow
Liquidated
Methos (up)
grs (on deck)
Thormodr
 
Excellent roleplaying with the lumberjacks. I love Monty Python. I will check out the map and familiarize myself with the terrain so it becomes second nature to me. Good work everyone. :goodjob:
 
You're right Liquidated, I completely looked over that part of your post. Its quite right that there is no perfect answer yet for who to pick as your leader. However, the ones that are mentioned do stand out. This being Civ IV, there probably is more than 1 way to win every OCC game, but there are some definite guidelines to follow as well. In case you were wondering, the research path I follow most of the time with Saladin is Polytheism, Mining, Bronze Working, Masonry, Monotheism, Priesthood, Writing, Code of Laws, Civil Service, Alphabet, Literature. Also, I will throw in Agriculture somewhere early in that sequence, and if there are resources using animal husbandry or hunting, I'd stop and get them. In about 80% of the cases, you will get both Hinduism and Judaism, and often Confuscianism as well.

Obviously, the biggest weakness of this approach is that if you don't have copper, you are stuck with warriors until alphabet. Now, a properly fortified and promoted warrior can fend off archers, but if they get Axeman, you're in trouble. If worried, you can stop off and get archery, but you may miss out on a religion.

My build order usually starts with 3 warriors, then 3 workers, then the pyramids, then the oracle. I chop like crazy with my worker/warrior pairs, knocking out every tree that can possibly give me hammers. Usually, there are enough trees to finish up the workers, pyramids, an oracle, and sometimes more than that.

I'm not saying this is the best starting strategy for OCC, but it has worked for me. I had a Monarch OCC space win before the latest patch, and I had one come up 2 parts short after. I know there have to be better strategies than mine out there, that's why I'm so interested in this game. Good luck :)
 
Agreed afpunk. The perfect leader for a occ would be phil/industrious with the starting techs debatable...

Maybe Lincoln will be phil indus...

As it is though, there's more than a few viable strats for occ so far, somthing that makes CIV4 really shine. This game really is the jewel of the series.


Cheers!
-Liq
 
All I can say is that I've as of yet failed to win on Monarch with the strategy posted on my introductory message. I'm hopeful that together we can modify the strategy to be more optimal and of course 'represent' when it comes to the all-important skills of micromanagement, diplomacy, and just plain ass-kicking. So guys, play your turns slowly and THINK. :p And a little luck won't hurt...
 
Turn 44 (2240 BC)
Methos: Interesting strategy going for chopping forests only and not improving the land. I do not believe I've seen anyone do this before. Not for sure if it’s good or not. Guess we'll see.
Methos: We're currently at -1 gpt with 23 gold in the vault, with Writing due in 9. I'll leave it as it is until Writing is complete.
Berlin finishes: Archer

Turn 45 (2200 BC)
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Methos: Begin two chops that will net us +37 hammers and +45 hammers, for a total of +82 hammers.

Turn 46 (2160 BC)
Methos: Our scout following the western coast spots a barb archer to his north.
Contact made: Arabian Empire

Turn 47 (2120 BC)
Methos: We meet Saladin, who is not an aggressive leader. So that makes us 4/4.
Methos: Our western scout flees from the barb archer.
Contact made: Chinese Empire

Turn 48 (2080 BC)
Methos: We have now met Mao Zedong. I'm unsure about how aggressive he is.

Turn 49 (2040 BC)
Berlin grows: 5
Berlin's borders expand

Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Methos: After growth I continue to emphasize commerce for research. Currently the Oracle is due in 3 and Writing in 4.

Turn 51 (1960 BC)
Methos: Well, we're considered 5th as the most cultured nation of the world. 1st place goes to the only unknown civ still left.
Methos: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that one of the workers is mining the only hill in our radius.
Methos: The other worker I parked outside Berlin since we have no worker techs he is basically useless right now.
Methos: The Oracle has 137/150 with +7 hammers.
Methos: Writing is due in 3.
Contact made: Spanish Empire

Turn 52 (1920 BC)
Methos: We meet Isabelle. We now know everyone and I don't believe any one of them is very aggressive.
Methos: The Oracle is now 144/150 with +7 hammers and will be done in 1 turn. Writing is due in two. I switch to an archer and leave the Oracle in the queue.
Berlin begins: Archer

Turn 53 (1880 BC)
Tech learned: Writing

Turn 54 (1840 BC)
Research begun: Masonry
Methos: Huayna Capac asks for Open Borders; I agree. It benefits us since we're not expanding.
Methos: Switch back to the Oracle. It'll finish in 1.
Berlin finishes: The Oracle

Turn 55 (1800 BC)
Tech learned: Code of Laws
Confucianism founded in Berlin
Confucianism has spread: Berlin
Berlin begins: Archer
Methos: I decide to make Confucianism our state religion. It'll allow us to grow another size due to happiness.
Confucianism has spread: Machu Picchu (Incan Empire)
Scout loses to: Barbarian Archer (3.00/3)

Turn 56 (1760 BC)
Methos: Our northwestern scout was killed by a barb archer.
Methos: Set Berlin to grow. It'll finish its current archer in 3; same as when Masonry is known.
Methos: BTW, we have two barb cities near us. One to the east and another to the southwest.

Turn 57 (1720 BC)

Turn 58 (1680 BC)
Methos: Mao Zedong asks for Open Borders. I agree.
Tech learned: Masonry
Berlin finishes: Archer

Turn 59 (1640 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry
Berlin begins: The Pyramids
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Confucianism has spread: Tiwanaku (Incan Empire)
Methos: Both workers have begun their chop. Both workers will grant Berlin +45 hammers each, or 90 hammers total.
Methos: I decided to start research on Animal Husbandry. It'll allow us to use the cow which will help production.

Confucianism spread naturally to one of the Incan kings’ cities, plus I influenced another with the free missionary. Amazingly, with only one city influenced (at that time) the Mayans converted to Confucianism.

Finishing research on Animal Husbandry IMO is a necessity. Pasteurizing the cow would cause that tile to produce +3 food and +3 hammers. It’s worth the 6 turns.

I also believe Agriculture is worth it too due to the farms. In 23 turns our cultural borders will expand picking up the rice, and possibly the sheep and silks. The silks don’t matter at this point but the other two do.

After growth switch citizens to tiles as I have indicated in the pic below. Realize that in the pic the cow tile hasn’t been improved yet, but will gain an additional food once it has. The below will produce enough food to stagnate growth and produce 12 hpt. Even with this it'll take around 30 turns, so we should probably chop another forest or two.

Merz01_Size_6.JPG


Our first great prophet should go towards the shrine. After that super specialists.

Here’s the 1640 BC save.
 
Lurker comment:

Why build a shrine in an OCC? Money is never a concern and you're probably not going to have much time to build a lot of missionaries to spread it around. I would just merge him for the hammer boost which it looks like you guys desperately need until lumbermills come around.
 
Shillen said:
I would just merge him for the hammer boost which it looks like you guys desperately need until lumbermills come around.

Good point on the shrine. I guess it all depends on how much influence Confucianism has.

As to the lumbermills there's no need. I have a feeling there won't be any forests left by the time it makes it back around to me. I'm not so sure thats a good thing.
 
I would be inclined to build the shrine with the great prophet. It's free money in the bank. It all depends how much Confusionism (spelling intentional) is spread. He gives us five gold a turn if we merge him as a super specialist. If we don't and Confusionism spreads to more than five cities, we make more money. If we merge it though we get two hammers a turn forever though. Maybe extra hammers are the way to go.
Changed my mind. Merge first. If we get a second one, build the shrine.
Just my opinion. :P
 
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