Meth01: Culture, with no Wonders
- Thread starter Methos
- Start date
Conroe said:Ah, well.I've been married for quite a while, now. I've gotten used to being wrong.
This I totally understand.
It's definitely nice to know though, as I don't recall seeing anyone post any articles on spreading religions [as in % chance, etc].
I need some help figuring this out. We need to get 3 cities to 50K and, at the same time, prevent Mecca from reaching 50K. Here is a snapshot of our current culture picture:
Now, those numbers will obviously change once all of the Cathedrals are complete. But keep in mind that Damascus has already completed all of its Cathedrals. Mecca has 150% the culture of Damascus and its doing at least 30% more cpt than Damascus.
We'd have to have 6 Great Artist culture bombs just to get our chosen cities past Mecca in culture. Then these cities are going to need more cpt than Mecca just so Mecca doesn't pass them back up.
We've just built the Heroic Epic in Mecca and we're now talking about building Oxford there as well. Shouldn't we be trying to slow the culture growth down in Mecca? ChrTh, I know you've said we don't need to worry about the culture in Mecca, but frankly, I'm not seeing how we are going to make all of this happen.
Now, those numbers will obviously change once all of the Cathedrals are complete. But keep in mind that Damascus has already completed all of its Cathedrals. Mecca has 150% the culture of Damascus and its doing at least 30% more cpt than Damascus.
We'd have to have 6 Great Artist culture bombs just to get our chosen cities past Mecca in culture. Then these cities are going to need more cpt than Mecca just so Mecca doesn't pass them back up.
We've just built the Heroic Epic in Mecca and we're now talking about building Oxford there as well. Shouldn't we be trying to slow the culture growth down in Mecca? ChrTh, I know you've said we don't need to worry about the culture in Mecca, but frankly, I'm not seeing how we are going to make all of this happen.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
We only have to worry about Culture in Mecca if we "Continue Playing" past the end of 2030. There's only 191 turns left. Mecca needs to average 216cpt for the remainder of the game in order to hit 50000.
In other words, stop worrying about Mecca and start worrying about the other three. Baghdad needs to average 249 cpt to hit 50000. With the remaining time, each culture bomb is equal to 21 cpt in net effect. Let's say Baghdad catches up to Damascus and thus has 92cpt (we'll assume it's instantaneously). To get to 249, that's the equvalent of 7.5 culture bombs.
8 great artists are needed just for Baghdad. So we're looking at about 24 total for all 3 cities...in 191 turns, so that's an average of one great artist every 8 turns.
In other words, stop worrying about Mecca and start worrying about the other three. Baghdad needs to average 249 cpt to hit 50000. With the remaining time, each culture bomb is equal to 21 cpt in net effect. Let's say Baghdad catches up to Damascus and thus has 92cpt (we'll assume it's instantaneously). To get to 249, that's the equvalent of 7.5 culture bombs.
8 great artists are needed just for Baghdad. So we're looking at about 24 total for all 3 cities...in 191 turns, so that's an average of one great artist every 8 turns.
BeefontheBone
Windbag of the sea
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 2,018
Tubby Rower said:Just out of curiosity what is legendary culture? I haven't a single cultural victory in. Mainly because I've haven't tried.
Lurker's comment:
The amount required depends on the game speed - 50k is for Normal speed, I think it's 75k for Epic. This is obviously to offset the fact that higher speeds have more turns of play.
Your calculations about the required culture seem to be neglecting the fact that the cities can build culture (at half production), and probably should be as soon as their cathedrals are in place - it's worth a hell of a lot more than buidling walls and castles for a poxy 1 cpt (well, 3 after modifiers). I'm surprised at the lack of Artist specialists in play (and the lack of Sistine Chapel building to go with them), although my only cultural game came down to an SS launch by the AI.
I think you guys have got a lot of work on your hands here - good luck!
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
^Strong disagreement on the Castles. 3cpt for ~180 turns is 540 culture. It takes about 5 turns for our cities to build Walls+Castles, so we'd have to generate 216 hammers per turn for it to be a better investment to build culture over castles. I assure you, we're nowhere close to that.
I'm going to take a look at the save and see if I can put a number to our building culture and recalculate. I think, though, it won't save more than one Great Artist per city. That still leaves us needing 20.
I'm going to take a look at the save and see if I can put a number to our building culture and recalculate. I think, though, it won't save more than one Great Artist per city. That still leaves us needing 20.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Building culture in Damascus jumped us from 92cpt to 128cpt (after emphasizing building) ... working 2 artists (our max) plus castle finishing next turn brings us up to 151cpt (and we can do that without starving). We need to average 244cpt in Damascus, so we're short 93cpt ... which is 5 great artists culture bombing.
Turn 260 (1750 AD)
Methos: In Damascus I removed a citizen and set as an artist. That gained us +16 cpt.
Methos: Qin is willing to give 12 gpt for our spare deer.
Tech learned: Economics
Damascus finishes: Castle
Najran finishes: Lighthouse
Khurasan grows: 7
Khurasan finishes: Christian Temple
Turn 261 (1755 AD)
Research begun: Gunpowder
Research begun: Chemistry
Research begun: Printing Press
Research begun: Scientific Method
Research begun: Biology
Research begun: Nationalism
Research begun: Constitution
Research begun: Corporation
Najran begins: Caravel
Khurasan begins: Library
Najran begins: Maceman
Research begun: Gunpowder
Research begun: Chemistry
Research begun: Printing Press
Research begun: Scientific Method
Research begun: Biology
Research begun: Astronomy
Mecca finishes: Bank
Edit: Didn't realize it kept track even when I was just seeing our options.
Turn 262 (1760 AD)
Mecca begins: Courthouse
Turn 263 (1765 AD)
Kufah finishes: Bank
Turn 264 (1770 AD)
Kufah begins: Barracks
Baghdad finishes: Jewish Synagogue
Turn 265 (1775 AD)
Baghdad begins: Christian Cathedral
Medina grows: 10
Najran finishes: Maceman
Saxon grows: 9
Anjar grows: 3
Turn 266 (1780 AD)
Najran begins: Maceman
Mecca finishes: Courthouse
Kufah finishes: Barracks
Turn 267 (1785 AD)
Mecca begins: Camel Archer
Kufah begins: Forbidden Palace
Najran begins: Camel Archer
Saxon's borders expand
Turn 268 (1790 AD)
Mecca finishes: Camel Archer
Medina finishes: Hindu Mandir
Baghdad finishes: Christian Cathedral
Najran grows: 9
Basra grows: 5
Turn 269 (1795 AD)
Mecca begins: Camel Archer
Medina begins: University
Baghdad finishes: Castle
Saxon finishes: University
Khurasan grows: 8
Turn 270 (1800 AD)
Saxon begins: Aqueduct
Medina begins: Aqueduct
IMO our three culture cities should start converting their surrounding tiles to be more food productive. With our cultural bonuses each artist specialist (+4 cpt) is granting +16 cpt. Biology is looking like a very desired tech right now.
Another thing, whenever a culture city starts building culture please MM the citizens to work the food tiles and run as many specialists as possible. We gain some culture off of building culture but at this moment make more off of the artists. Granted, every little bit counts.
After Medina finishes the University an Aqueduct should be built immediately. We are currently at -2 health. On second thought, it might be wiser to build the aqueduct first and than use those two food towards an artist instead. The lone artist would grant us +16 cpt whereas the university would only grant us +12 cpt. Okay, did the switch, so when the aqueduct is finished hire an artist specialist.
All religious cathedrals have now been built.
Culture Note: Are three culture cities have four cathedrals (+50% culture each) for a total of +200% culture. Free Speech grants us +100% culture. In total our culture three are earning +300% culture. In other words anytime we are figuring up what culture we would get take the +x and multiply it times four.
Note: I have turned on the ‘Avoid Growth’ in Kufah.
Current culture looks like this:
As you can see by emphasizing artists and building culture we already have two cities that have surpassed Mecca in cpt. Out of curiosity I checked to see what our cpt would look like if I moved the 80% research to 80% culture:
I find it odd that Mecca jumps to 2nd place when the slider is set at 80% culture. I’m curious as to why.
Here's the 1800 AD save.
Roster:
Methos- Just Played
Soul Warrior- Up
Conroe- On Deck
MeteorPunch
ChrTh
Methos: In Damascus I removed a citizen and set as an artist. That gained us +16 cpt.
Methos: Qin is willing to give 12 gpt for our spare deer.
Tech learned: Economics
Damascus finishes: Castle
Najran finishes: Lighthouse
Khurasan grows: 7
Khurasan finishes: Christian Temple
Turn 261 (1755 AD)
Research begun: Gunpowder
Research begun: Chemistry
Research begun: Printing Press
Research begun: Scientific Method
Research begun: Biology
Research begun: Nationalism
Research begun: Constitution
Research begun: Corporation
Najran begins: Caravel
Khurasan begins: Library
Najran begins: Maceman
Research begun: Gunpowder
Research begun: Chemistry
Research begun: Printing Press
Research begun: Scientific Method
Research begun: Biology
Research begun: Astronomy
Mecca finishes: Bank
Edit: Didn't realize it kept track even when I was just seeing our options.
Turn 262 (1760 AD)
Mecca begins: Courthouse
Turn 263 (1765 AD)
Kufah finishes: Bank
Turn 264 (1770 AD)
Kufah begins: Barracks
Baghdad finishes: Jewish Synagogue
Turn 265 (1775 AD)
Baghdad begins: Christian Cathedral
Medina grows: 10
Najran finishes: Maceman
Saxon grows: 9
Anjar grows: 3
Turn 266 (1780 AD)
Najran begins: Maceman
Mecca finishes: Courthouse
Kufah finishes: Barracks
Turn 267 (1785 AD)
Mecca begins: Camel Archer
Kufah begins: Forbidden Palace
Najran begins: Camel Archer
Saxon's borders expand
Turn 268 (1790 AD)
Mecca finishes: Camel Archer
Medina finishes: Hindu Mandir
Baghdad finishes: Christian Cathedral
Najran grows: 9
Basra grows: 5
Turn 269 (1795 AD)
Mecca begins: Camel Archer
Medina begins: University
Baghdad finishes: Castle
Saxon finishes: University
Khurasan grows: 8
Turn 270 (1800 AD)
Saxon begins: Aqueduct
Medina begins: Aqueduct
IMO our three culture cities should start converting their surrounding tiles to be more food productive. With our cultural bonuses each artist specialist (+4 cpt) is granting +16 cpt. Biology is looking like a very desired tech right now.
Another thing, whenever a culture city starts building culture please MM the citizens to work the food tiles and run as many specialists as possible. We gain some culture off of building culture but at this moment make more off of the artists. Granted, every little bit counts.
After Medina finishes the University an Aqueduct should be built immediately. We are currently at -2 health. On second thought, it might be wiser to build the aqueduct first and than use those two food towards an artist instead. The lone artist would grant us +16 cpt whereas the university would only grant us +12 cpt. Okay, did the switch, so when the aqueduct is finished hire an artist specialist.
All religious cathedrals have now been built.
Culture Note: Are three culture cities have four cathedrals (+50% culture each) for a total of +200% culture. Free Speech grants us +100% culture. In total our culture three are earning +300% culture. In other words anytime we are figuring up what culture we would get take the +x and multiply it times four.
Note: I have turned on the ‘Avoid Growth’ in Kufah.
Current culture looks like this:
As you can see by emphasizing artists and building culture we already have two cities that have surpassed Mecca in cpt. Out of curiosity I checked to see what our cpt would look like if I moved the 80% research to 80% culture:
I find it odd that Mecca jumps to 2nd place when the slider is set at 80% culture. I’m curious as to why.
Here's the 1800 AD save.
Roster:
Methos- Just Played
Soul Warrior- Up
Conroe- On Deck
MeteorPunch
ChrTh
I apologize that my log wasn't very interesting. Forgot to add comments.
I also forgot to state that I switched to Free Market once Economics was learned. I also switched to Caste System on that last turn for the unlimited artists.
There are also a couple of fish that we need to get work boats out too. They're within our borders so we might as well use them.
I also forgot to state that I switched to Free Market once Economics was learned. I also switched to Caste System on that last turn for the unlimited artists.
There are also a couple of fish that we need to get work boats out too. They're within our borders so we might as well use them.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
The slider is still a function of commerce. 80% of Mecca's commerce is being converted into culture, and since Mecca is light years' ahead of the 3 in commerce, it's going to get a huge culture boost from the culture slider.
How much would it hurt things to rush Medina's aqueduct and University?
ChrTh said:
It would be the obvious!
Looks like we'll need to improve our culture three's economy before we start playing with the slider. BTW, when does everyone feel we should turn research off and go straight culture?ChrTh said:
I'm not for sure. I never checked it. I just switched to Aqueduct so I doubt we'll be able to whip it yet. I do recall that the University had 25 hammers already invested so it is a possibility.
Man, I left a lot out of my log!
Since we had all those forests north of Baghdad I decided to speed up the two remaining cathedrals the city required. I ended up chopping enough to finish both cathedrals and the castle. I also did a chop around Medina to speed up its production as well.
I only chopped where it wasn't a city tile. Realize though that there are still lots of forest around Baghdad and north of Mecca that could be used.
Since we had all those forests north of Baghdad I decided to speed up the two remaining cathedrals the city required. I ended up chopping enough to finish both cathedrals and the castle.
I also did a chop around Medina to speed up its production as well.I only chopped where it wasn't a city tile. Realize though that there are still lots of forest around Baghdad and north of Mecca that could be used.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
We don't need to wait before we play with the slider. We just have to make sure the three hit 50,000 before Mecca. Great Artists are going to come into play, so we just have to make sure they don't come into play in Mecca 
soul_warrior
Termite!
wont be able to grab b4 friday.
skip or switch me please?
skip or switch me please?
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I have a question: how come the other religions aren't spreading to us? Do we not have Open Borders with the Civs that founded the other 3? If we could get Taoism, etc., here fast we could build the temples/cathedrals for those as well.
Roster:
Methos- Just Played
Soul Warrior-Up or a swap
Conroe- Up?
MeteorPunch
ChrTh
How about it Conroe? Can you get this before Friday? If so you and Soul Warrior can swap. Otherwise we wait for SW.
Methos- Just Played
Soul Warrior-Up or a swap
Conroe- Up?
MeteorPunch
ChrTh
How about it Conroe? Can you get this before Friday? If so you and Soul Warrior can swap. Otherwise we wait for SW.
soul_warrior
Termite!
ok.
sad, but i have to do this.
i dont seem to have regular and easy access to my machine.
so, until im finished with moving in with the girlfriend (about a month or so), i have to ask for a permanent skip.
i will keep watch over things, but no for me till then.
sorry mates
sad, but i have to do this.
i dont seem to have regular and easy access to my
machine.so, until im finished with moving in with the girlfriend (about a month or so), i have to ask for a permanent skip.
i will keep watch over things, but no
for me till then.sorry mates
soul_warrior said:so, until im finished with moving in with the girlfriend (about a month or so), i have to ask for a permanent skip.
i will keep watch over things, but no
sorry mates
Understand, things happen. If your computer comes back up before we're finished please let us know.
Roster:
Methos- Just Played
Soul Warrior- Ghosting
Conroe- Up
MeteorPunch- On Deck
ChrTh
