[MH2] - Monarchs take on Deity

[Stochastic]

Ok, while I still think the Ivory is still slightly better because it doesn't need to start off on a granary but can go for a Quecha or two (I really think that we should have 6-7) you've convinced me that gold first wouldn't be quite as bad as I thought to begin with. If Ichabod and Asaf don't chime in with other opinions than I'm willing to go with the majority.

Re the roster, I think Happyturtle has the right idea, 3 is doable but tight, so advertising for some more wictums is a good choice.

 

[shyuhe]

Wow, I learn something new every day while playing this SG

Theoretically they can, but barbies "settle" cities from better city spots first. Since the gold area doesn't have any food nearby (except pigs), I'm pretty sure it's ranked as a bad city spot by the algorithm. So that means it's not very likely to spawn a barb city. Plus it looks like lots of units have been moving around in that area too, which prevents city spawning (only in a 3x3 grid as opposed to the 5x5 spawn busting grid).

 

[happyturtle]

Okay, I started the turnset, but ran into a decision point:

T 37 2520 - move worker to cottage 1W, start moving Quechua 2 in scouting pattern from MH's post, start BW

T38 2489 - survy founds his third city.

T39 2440 - Survy adopts slavery. Oh crap... I did not notice that Quechua 2 was wounded, and he ended next to a barb... >.<

T40 2400 - Q2 survives. Not sure how to promote him. Woodsman 1 and move him 1W across the river to heal? Shock to help against Barb warriors? Combat 2 for general fightiness?

(Also of note: barb city and coast to SE of wounded Quechua)

Spoiler :

 

[Mikehendi]

I'd promote him combat 2 or medic 1 (for quicker healing now, and maybe a future medic 3 GG if he makes it that far), and move him SE on the plains hill to heal.

 

[happyturtle]

If he's going to heal on a hill where he has less of a defensive bonus, shouldn't he just stay where he is?

 

[babybluepants]

I usually promote the early units to WM every time. With Q's, Cover isn't half bad. They absolutely own barb archers with that.

 

[Mikehendi]

If he's going to heal on a hill where he has less of a defensive bonus, shouldn't he just stay where he is?

Well... er... you have a point I guess

I'm just very curious to see across those water tiles,

I usually promote the early units to WM every time. With Q's, Cover isn't half bad. They absolutely own barb archers with that.

Doesn't Cover only add 12,5% extra vs archers, in the case of quecha's?

Spoiler :

(str 2.00 + 100% from quecha + 25% from cover --> from 200% to 225% = from 100% to 112,5% (if this is clear enough).

 

[shyuhe]

The bonus goes from 100-->125% for cover. So it counts as 4.5 vs. 3 on flat land. The anti-archer bonus counts as a non-combat promotion in terms of odds calculation.

 

[happyturtle]

No clear consensus, so I think I'll go with medic for faster healing.

 

[Mikehendi]

The bonus goes from 100-->125% for cover. So it counts as 4.5 vs. 3 on flat land. The anti-archer bonus counts as a non-combat promotion in terms of odds calculation.

I think we're saying the same (I just have problems expressing myself clearly in English):

No cover: 4.00 vs 3.00
Cover: 4.50 vs 3.00

from 4.00 + 12,5% = 4.50

 

[Stochastic]

No clear consensus, so I think I'll go with medic for faster healing.

I think either Wood or CII are the best options early on. If it was surrounded by forest like the south I'd definitely go for WI, but I think the terrain around it looks less forested so I think CI.

Medic won't add all that much IMO, remember the promotion will heal (I think 1/2 to full?) as well.

It looks like we might be about to hit the coast, that is interesting for blocking reasons...

Also, I think we should consider moving our horse location to the newly discovered horse-wheat-cow site, it looks like quite a good production center.

 

[happyturtle]

Panic! Maintenance kicked in when I moved the worker and settler! I moved one Quechua back in city borders to recover a gold, but not sure what to do here.

Spoiler :

T 37 2520 - move worker to cottage 1W, start moving Quechua 2 in scouting pattern from MH's post, start BW

T38 2489 - survy founds his third city.

T39 2440 - Survy adopts slavery. Oh crap... I did not notice that Quechua 2 was wounded >.<

T40 2400 - Q2 survives. Not sure how to promote him. Woodsman 1 and move him 1W across the river to heal? Shock to help against Barb warriors? Combat 2 for general fightiness?

Also, note the barb city.

After discussion, promoted to Combat 2 and set to heal. 5 turns.

t42 2320 - Cottage is finished, Settler is finished, move both south. I looked at working an additional 3H tile to get the Quechua in one turn, but that delayed BW by a turn. But since it's only 1 beaker difference, it won't matter as long as I switch it back next turn, right?

I can see I'll never be a deity player on my own. I'll never pay this close attention to the maths. (And besides, Civ V coming along... )

t43 2240 - Maintenance! Halp!

 

[Mikehendi]

Panic! Maintenance kicked in when I moved the worker and settler! I moved one Quechua back in city borders to recover a gold, but not sure what to do here.

Spoiler :

T 37 2520 - move worker to cottage 1W, start moving Quechua 2 in scouting pattern from MH's post, start BW

T38 2489 - survy founds his third city.

T39 2440 - Survy adopts slavery. Oh crap... I did not notice that Quechua 2 was wounded >.<

T40 2400 - Q2 survives. Not sure how to promote him. Woodsman 1 and move him 1W across the river to heal? Shock to help against Barb warriors? Combat 2 for general fightiness?

Also, note the barb city.

After discussion, promoted to Combat 2 and set to heal. 5 turns.

t42 2320 - Cottage is finished, Settler is finished, move both south. I looked at working an additional 3H tile to get the Quechua in one turn, but that delayed BW by a turn. But since it's only 1 beaker difference, it won't matter as long as I switch it back next turn, right?

I can see I'll never be a deity player on my own. I'll never pay this close attention to the maths. (And besides, Civ V coming along... )

t43 2240 - Maintenance! Halp!

Nice timing on the worker and the settler! (we can start improving gold on the same turn the city is founded)

Maintenance... we'll just have to deal with it now. It will be much worse when the 2nd city is settled. go 0% for 1 turn (you already did), then back to 100%. We're not timing a whip or chop, so the exact turn BW comes in doesn't matter too much.

I think we should send 1 of the 2 quecha's near the Ivory down south ASAP, If the one city defender we have there get's injured, and another barb shows up quickly after, we could be in big trouble.

Good luck with finishing your session! (if nothing else pops up before completing BW ), I need to get some sleep

 

[Stochastic]

Yeah, I think Mikehendi has the right idea here, 0% for one turn and then finish off BW. That has the extra nice feeling of having our worker finish the turn BW does, I'm thinking we should send it to chop the nearest hill plain into a settler and then build a mine on the same tile, that way we can get our third settler out quite quickly too. After that we will need a handful of Quechas.

 

[happyturtle]

Turnset completed:

T 37 2520 - move worker to cottage 1W, start moving Quechua 2 in scouting pattern from MH's post, start BW

T38 2489 - survy founds his third city.

T39 2440 - Survy adopts slavery. Oh crap... I did not notice that Quechua 2 was wounded >.<

T40 2400 - Q2 survives. Not sure how to promote him. Woodsman 1 and move him 1W across the river to heal? Shock to help against Barb warriors? Combat 2 for general fightiness?

Also, note the barb city. <paused for input>

After discussion, promoted to Combat 2 and set to heal. 5 turns.

t42 2320 - Cottage is finished, Settler is finished, move both south. I looked at working an additional 3H tile to get the Quechua in one turn, but that delayed BW by a turn. But since it's only 1 beaker difference, it won't matter as long as I switch it back next turn, right?

I can see I'll never be a deity player on my own. I'll never pay this close attention to the maths. (And besides, Civ V coming along... )

t43 2280 - Maintenance! Halp! <paused for input>

Moved slider to 0% and went back to working 2 FP tiles instead of 3H forest and mine.

t44 2240 - moving guys around, back to 100%

t45 2200 - Quechua 2 is healed, discovers the ocean. Then gets wounded again. On the bright side, Bismarck's archer helpfully kills a barb near our gold. Quechua 1 is promoted to Woodsman 2 for mobility and renamed George of the Jungle.

t46 2160 - Tiwanaku founded and starts on Terrace. Worker starts on gold.

t48 2080 - BW in. Worker in. Slotted in settler for Cuzco, Hunting slotted in for research. All units are awaiting orders, and I did not revolt to slavery yet.

Enemy civs now average 4 cities each, to our 2. I marked the wheat/cow/horse city for future reference. With a barb city at its borders, it should be obtainable.

Spoiler :

Stochastic << Up
Mikehendi << On Deck
happyturtle

 

[Stochastic]

Looks well run! Good calls on prioritizing the FPs over the hills as well as naming our Wood2.
The scouting and revelation of Copper is particularily interesting, I think we should consider moving the old horse spot down by the rice (after IW and assuming Bizzy hasn't taken it obviously ). It also looks like there is a decent spot with copper and wheat. So we seem to have enough room for a few more cities.

Here's some quick thoughts before I go buy some food for dinner (I'm thinking of playing up to the next settlement).

Spoiler :

Workers
I've changed my mind about chopping the plains hill, I prefer chopping the grass forest surrounded by trees (for the better regrow chance and less redundant hill climbing) and then going for a cottage on a FP. My reasoning is I think we want the +2 more than the +1 of a mine. That will get a settler out fairly quickly for the ivory, then I think Cuzo needs to grow to its happy cap, so some Quechas will be in order.

The other worker will finish the mine/road to our third city.

Techs
Any opinions on what to go for after hunting? I'm thinking writing for the libraries and get a GS for an Academy in Cuzo. Another option would be IW to keep up the expansion into Jungle and possibly take out some barb cities. We can probably hold off on the decision for a bit because we will be banking cash for a while.

Scouting
I'm thinking that George should check on Bizzy, while our healing Quecha should go a bit more South to see if there are any other interesting resources by the Wheat.

 

[happyturtle]

Lawl... I didn't even think about looking for the copper, I was so busy writing up the end turnset report.

The eastern copper has quite a few options for city placement. Or we could settle 3N of Cuzco for a nice cheap little port city that could borrow the pigs for growth. If it had seafood, that would be grand. With the barb city and the mountain/lake wall, our eastern border is pretty safe from encroaching settlers for a while, so I think we want to settle to the south first, then fill in when we either run out of room or need copper.

Any thoughts on slavery revolt timing? Is it the earlier the better because there's less commerce lost?

 

[Stochastic]

Lawl... I didn't even think about looking for the copper, I was so busy writing up the end turnset report.

The eastern copper has quite a few options for city placement. Or we could settle 3N of Cuzco for a nice cheap little port city that could borrow the pigs for growth. If it had seafood, that would be grand. With the barb city and the mountain/lake wall, our eastern border is pretty safe from encroaching settlers for a while, so I think we want to settle to the south first, then fill in when we either run out of room or need copper.

Any thoughts on slavery revolt timing? Is it the earlier the better because there's less commerce lost?

Re settlement, I agree on being in a very nice spot for blocking off our land, that's why I'd like to check out the region to the East of the southern Wheat, maybe we can get another spot in there for our 4th city to finish the lock off. Then we can talk about where to put a copper city, but with the current info I'm thinking about either between the Wheat and Copper (nice FIN coastline) or 1SE of that (more land to farm/workshop)

For the slavery I hadn't thought about that, I think earlier is probably better in this circumstance so that we are in revolt before the gold is up.

 

[Mikehendi]

I've bolded the things I really wanted to say, to not let it get lost in all the jabbering around it

I agree on switching to slavery instantly. We are working unimproved tiles now, which our workers are busy improving. So switching now saves 1 turn of working unimproved tiles.

Note that in 2 turns, our borders wil expand to include the northern copper, and also 1 Ivory tile.

For the 2nd worker, I'd have him cottage a tile, and then improve the Ivory tile, finishing the 1-turn road inbetween (this also shaves a turn of settling Ivory) This way, the Ivory city can work an improved hammer+commerce tile immediately to quickly build a terrace (which it needs for food (corn)).

I don't see the point in using up 4+ worker turns to chop a 20h forest to settle the Ivory site 1-2 turns earlier, and then having no good tiles to work (we aren't in danger of losing the site, no need to rush, being able to work improved tiles is way better IMO).

Also, all forests are needed for health when we grow to our new happy cap of 7 (soon) until we connect the corn.

Well, summarized, Improving tiles >>> settling 1-2 turns earlier by chopping

I'm thinking, when the settler is done we could whip a worker in the cap, and then grow back to happy cap on quecha's, while the new worker cottages up tiles or connects the copper. After that, our econ will be strong enough (hopefully) to settle more cities. The New Horse site looks amazing indeed!

I'm not in a hurry to settle any jungle cities while we have several good non-jungle sites available, so writing next sounds good..

One of the yet-to-be-built quecha's should scout the capitals coastline for seafood.

I'd try to get the WII quecha up to WIII, keep patrolling very close near the 2nd city for barbs. He both kills barbs, and prevents too many barbs from spawning near our city (and possibly pillaging our gold ). Scouting down south further can be done with an axeman, we need him to actively defend that city.

Agree with stochastic on having the Gold worker roading gold, then roading towards the ivory site

I agree with Stochastic, you played that turnset really well!

 

[Stochastic]

For the 2nd worker, I'd have him cottage a tile, and then improve the Ivory tile, finishing the 1-turn road inbetween (this also shaves a turn of settling Ivory) This way, the Ivory city can work an improved hammer+commerce tile immediately to quickly build a terrace (which it needs for food (corn)).

I don't see the point in using up 4+ worker turns to chop a 20h forest to settle the Ivory site 1-2 turns earlier, and then having no good tiles to work (we aren't in danger of losing the site, no need to rush, being able to work improved tiles is way better IMO).

Hmm, having put it that way I suppose you are right. Cottageing first would get it done 6 turns earlier than chopping first, to gain 18 In contrast the chop will only get the settler done 1 turn earlier for a gain of 3 and 4 from the new city. So I'll cottage the FP 1S of Cuzo so that I can finish the road before the settler is done. Then start on the Ivory when the settler is in place.

I'm thinking, when the settler is done we could whip a worker in the cap, and then grow back to happy cap on quecha's, while the new worker cottages up tiles or connects the copper. After that, our econ will be strong enough (hopefully) to settle more cities. The New Horse site looks amazing indeed!

I think that we should get a Quecha after the settler and then a Terrace for 30 hammers at which point we should be fairly large, so put in either a settler or worker which can be whipped with the overflow going into the Terrace to help speed up regrowth.