[MH2] - Monarchs take on Deity

[Soirana]

out of interest:

why you so worried with spawnbusting as Inca? isn't getting barb cities with quechas significantly cheaper than settling them?

 

[Mikehendi]

Great idea. Just read it. Im monarch player, any higher takes too much temptation to replay the last 100 years or so. I love to read deity threads, keep grabbin land

Roster:

Stimpyhoek - UP
Rest of us - Waiting for stimpyhoeks master genius plan

No really, why don't you join us? We need someone to blame if Bismarck DOW's us

out of interest:

why you so worried with spawnbusting as Inca? isn't getting barb cities with quechas significantly cheaper than settling them?

Well, I had to think about this question for a while. (I can't speak for the others, but It's gotten to be a habit really, I usually spawnbust more for keeping barb UNITS from spawning and pillaging then to prevent cities from being spawned.

We'd probably need 2-3 quecha's per archer I guess? I believe deity barb cities have 4 units guarding? so that's 8-12 quecha's from which 4 will survive, which makes for a 60-120 hammer investment.

@Team, we could think about it, but it'd suck to be unable to settle 2 good sites, because we can't pay for them due to capturing barb cities.

 

[Asaf]

Hi everyone.
Sorry for disappearing for so long, but I've been pretty sick in the last few weeks.

I just looked briefly on what has happened, and it looks good.
If you'll have me back, I'll read everything a little more thoroughly so I can add some input.

This is a re-sign-up

 

[Soirana]

Assuming cover quecha and flatlands it is 62% win.


that is 6,4 quecha per city 2,4 being dead... That is assuming no healing and no two wave attack. rest 4 ofcourse most likely get next promo improving odds further on.

 

[Stochastic]

out of interest:

why you so worried with spawnbusting as Inca? isn't getting barb cities with quechas significantly cheaper than settling them?

Hmmm, that is very interesting, I hadn't even considered attacking archers in barb cities with Quechas. I was certainly on automatic in terms of trying to keep barbs out of our land. I think given our current military strength (ie basically non existant) we, as relatively inexpert players, still need the spawnbusting to keep our improved land safe. But that is certainly something to keep in mind if we see a barb city in a nice spot.

 

[Mikehendi]

Hi everyone.
Sorry for disappearing for so long, but I've been pretty sick in the last few weeks.

I just looked briefly on what has happened, and it looks good.
If you'll have me back, I'll read everything a little more thoroughly so I can add some input.

This is a re-sign-up

Sure, welcome back to the team! Looking forward to your thoughts on the game and how to proceed!

 

[happyturtle]

So... is it my turn now, or not? I'm confused.

 

[stimpyhoek]

I just had a go and I think u guys r cookin . Obviously if u get attacked now u r toast but 2 north of nanas to settle is good spot I think. That barb city is an excellent blocker(to the right), try to steal it with a couple of units if weakened.... Aesthetics is great choice and u got a couple more sites to settle. Happy is off the scale. Keep up the good work, at this rate u could even fend off an attack....I would join but I have no idea how to do save post screenies etc.
Just one question if any of u mega experts out there, why do civs voluntarily vassal?

 

[babybluepants]

Just one question if any of u mega experts out there, why do civs voluntarily vassal?

Def, not a mega-expert , but here it is:

Assuming you're a Land Target (namely - you share a border at least 8 tiles long), it's a function of the sum of your power rating and the power ratings of its other land targets divided by the power rating of the AI and added to your diplomatic relations. I'm not a code-diver, so I can't tell you exactly how that works or what the thresholds are.

Put simply, if the AI is weak (in terms of Power), relative to you and other neighbors, and you have good relations, it may want to be your vassal. The better the relations and the lower its power, the higher the chance.

 

[happyturtle]

And it's all benefit for them. They can end it whenever they like, but you're stuck with them. It'd be like if only one spouse was allowed to divorce. If anyone attacks them, you are automatically at war, like it or not. You get negative modifiers with every other civ. And I think (can't remember for sure) that it costs you maintenance.

It can be useful if they have a resource that you need. You can direct their research (but can't force them to trade it to you). You get city visibility for them, and can airdrop your units into their cities. And of course if you're going for a conquest win, then it saves you having to actually war to get them to capitulate. But taking a peace vassal should only be done if it furthers your goals. It's hardly an automatic yes.

@screenshots: Just click 'print screen' on your keyboard. The screenshots will go into My Documents > My games > Beyond the Sword > Screenshots. Then you can upload them to a free photobucket account.

@saves: I think you have to be a member of the forums a bit longer before you can upload files directly, but until then you can use something like mediafire or rapidshare to upload your saves to.

 

[Stochastic]

So... is it my turn now, or not? I'm confused.

I'm pretty sure that you are still up, any new signups should go to the end to give more time to get (back) into the swing of things.

 

[stimpyhoek]

Thats hilarious only posted a few hours ago and answers I wanted. Yeah as to voluntary vassal it weirded me out because it didnt say the usual x% of your land stats. And yes I that makes sense that they are just using and can leave anytime, I was very suspicious of trading rifling. The strangest part tho is that pacal vassaled and he techs faster than me. Anyway get on with the game please
And thankyou 4 help.

 

[happyturtle]

Got it... but which city were we going to settle next? Wheat/cow/horse or something else?

 

[Stochastic]

I was thinking that we should grab the slightly less juicy spot in between the wheat and copper so that we can start building axes asap. Hopefully that way we have a chance to hold off whatever army gets sent to wipe us out.

Earlier on I was speculating on the merits of getting a third worker out fast with a chop of the forest that lies in a direct line between Cuzco and that site and then roading to the site and mining the copper before the wheat to speed things along. But I haven't had the time to think about the most optimal way to do that and I think we need to discuss how much that could help. For example, since we are planning on being very defensive, maybe it would be better to take a side route to archery before Aesthetics and then using archers. In that case we would probably choose to settle the juicy land first so that we can afford all the archers. Or maybe we should do both.

In short, I think we need to decide on how best to set up a defense vs Bismark and any other potential threats and that strategic choice will dictate our next few moves.

 

[happyturtle]

Played two turns. Tiwanaku grew to size two, Machu got it's Terrace in and then got the floodplain cottage assigned for growth. Settler came in.

Potential settling spots. Discuss:

Copper:

Spoiler :

Blocking Bizzy or Wheat/Horse/Cow:

Spoiler :

Bizzy's settler:

Spoiler :

My thoughts:

Spoiler :

Bizzy blocking will make border tensions, be expensive maintenance, and if we're the WHEEOHRN target, be rather vulnerable with no culture built up. Hatty's borders can be seen east of Cherokee. So it's either us or her. So I will cross off Bananaville for now.

Copper would be good to hook up if it's us, since Bizzy has swordsmen. One south of the whale circle would get fresh water and marble, but it's too close to Cuzco. It may have seafood in the fog, but even if it doesn't, it can borrow the pig for growth. The wheat circle will be slower growth and doesn't have any improved squares to borrow. So I am crossing off the wheat circle, but leaving the whale circle as an option.

Wheat/Horse/Cow gets us an amazing city site, and horses, but with the resources all in the second ring. We'd have to get it a grassland farm for growth, and a mine for Terrace production, and then wait for the pop, then improve cows and horses for production and wheat for growth. If the cows were in the first ring, this would be my choice, but it's going to take too long to be useful if Biz is coming after us.

So... I vote for whale circle now, then settle W/H/C next. Then when we conquer the barb city, we'll have our six cities.

EDIT: Didn't even think about archery. We can have it in two turns, and probably should. But the long buildup time it will take to make W/H/C useful makes me still think whale circle first.

 

[Thomas G.]

Just to make sure - the copper IS in the cultural area of cuzco, isn't it? So just mine/road up there and you have access to copper. Better to stake out more land now.

 

[happyturtle]

>.<

How did I not notice that? Okay, my vote is for Wheat/Horse/Cow then. Still need more input though.

 

[Asaf]

Haven't had a chance to read everything yet, so I hope I don't say anything you all discussed and dismissed already...

I agree with Thomas that there's no point in settling the copper/whale now, since we can mine the copper now.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but researching fishing+sailing (6 turns?) now, will save us 2 roads to connect the copper (provided we scout the coast to its north).
If that's not a path we consider, than I think go for IW. It's important to know where the iron is ASAP. Archery can wait, especially once we connect copper and have axes.

Where to settle? the cow/wheat/horse (at 'spawnbust' point). We can build a monument using the forest hill (without growing) in 8 turns I think, and then another 10 for popping, so it's a little long but as you said, it's an excellent city and we'll have horses.

Please double check all my numbers

 

[Mikehendi]

Agree on cow-wheat horse site. Let's hope Bismarck attacks the gold hill city if he DOWs us.

I don't know how crazy we should go on whipping and such to gather enough defense fast enough.

I'm pretty sure that you are still up, any new signups should go to the end to give more time to get (back) into the swing of things.

Yes, I was only kidding around a bit, sorry if it sounded too serious

 

[happyturtle]

Okay, played four more turns, and now Aesthetics is in.

T71: Terrace is in in Machu. Assign the floodplain cottage over for growth. Tiwanaku grows to size 2. Bismark's settler heads west instead of north.

T72: Send our settler to Horsey city and build a 1 turn Quechua.

T73: Pyramids BIADL. Bismark settles Essen. Start barracks in Cuzco to get cover Quechuas for taking the barb city.

Spoiler :

T74: Huh... look at this... Hatty's trying to take our city! I'll just stick some opportunistic kill stealers in place.

Spoiler :

T75: And now only one archer left in Chehalis. But our odds are only 26%, so I don't. Settle Ollantaytambo and work the plains forest hill to get the terrace out.

Spoiler :

T77: Aesthetics is in. Pause for input.

Culture:

Spoiler :

Southeast:

Spoiler :

Northwest:

Spoiler :

I'm not confident in my choices so far. Sending both workers to get the copper out, and the barracks in Cuzco. We only need one spawnbuster in the south now, which is George at the moment... not the best choice as there are no convenient forested hills, but the combat 2 Quechua is in Olly's cultural borders healing to go and hang out the barb city in case there's a kill steal opportunity. There's a Quechua headed back from the northwest who can do spawnbusting in the south, freeing up George to be a scout.

Anyway... Aesthetics is in and I think we need trades now more than Great Library later, especially when we need every hammer we can get for workers, settlers, and units. So I've stopped here.

Bonus... Buddhist missionary headed to Cuzco!