eromrab
Naked Pirate
yeah, i like the population thing... that way you're guaranteed to get work done each turn and not have to sit "stagnant"
Micro management
- Thread starter Ribannah
- Start date
eromrab
Naked Pirate
haha... yes, i beileve it was 
eromrab
Naked Pirate
i think it's a good idea, but, i don't think it should be implemented unless it has a box you can click to disable it... such as a "don't show this again" box...
eromrab
Naked Pirate
oh yes, and you should be able to click on each item and have it center the screen on the event...
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
That could work, but I don't see what the reason for it would be. You don't need craftsmen or raw materials to clear forests or dig irrigation, just manpower. Shields don't actually represent manpower, they represent raw materials that have been gathered and processed. Citizens represent raw manpower. That's why they also gather food and do trade, and that's why the work of manufacturing from raw materials, harvesting food, and trading is all dependant on citizens, because they are the workforce.
Also, using shields doesn't account for the fact that, except for the last 50 years or so, agriculture (not mining!) would be the key factor in determining how much road-building and so on that a nation could conduct. Lots of agriculture is the strategy to building a big workforce, which is what you need to build roads and dig ditches.
Also, using shields doesn't account for the fact that, except for the last 50 years or so, agriculture (not mining!) would be the key factor in determining how much road-building and so on that a nation could conduct. Lots of agriculture is the strategy to building a big workforce, which is what you need to build roads and dig ditches.
I see shields representing engineering potential, not raw materials. That's why factories have the game effect they do. And using shields perfectly reflects that a worker with a tractor can clear a forest more efficiently than one with an axe.
It's certainly more realistic than using gold to do tile improvements.
If you want to have people be the primary resource in a workerless system, you'd probably need a slider which reduces everything equally, and this would have the unintended side effect of making tile improvements effectively cost more as your cities grow larger.
It's certainly more realistic than using gold to do tile improvements.
If you want to have people be the primary resource in a workerless system, you'd probably need a slider which reduces everything equally, and this would have the unintended side effect of making tile improvements effectively cost more as your cities grow larger.
eromrab
Naked Pirate
i think it would be best if you just take 50% (or some other random number) of your population and that is how much "work force potential" you have each turn... if you have only one city with 8 population, then you would get 4 workforce potentials to use... it wouldn't be a city by city thing, but a national thing... if you had 2 cities with a population of 4 each, then you would have 4 WP to use that turn anywhere you wanted...
shields are raw materials... which is why they come from mining and whales and such.
shields are raw materials... which is why they come from mining and whales and such.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
eromrab said:
I like that too. Simple, elegant, no management necessary. I don't like the idea of sliders because you shouldn't be able to just make workforce appear and disappear at the touch of a button. It should be a constant constraint you have to work within.
As for the specific numbers, they're probably a bit high (well, all depending on how much WP it takes to get things done) but they can and would be tweaked by the game designers to get a good game balance. But I like the general idea of fixed extrapolation from the total number of citizens. Perhaps it would rise a bit when you got things like steam engine or motorized transportation etc.
rhialto said:
Factories represent an ability to process more of the raw materials that you gather into more finished goods - thus the 50% bonus on all shields collected from the terrain. Engineering potential is already accounted for by the fact improvements cost 50% less when you get Electricity (though another tech could easily be substituted). That doesn't need to change. If you change it to shields, then building more mines means more improvement power, which makes no sense at all.
But having a mine increase your ability to build tile improvements is entirely realistic. It takes heavy construction industry to build just about anything, and roads aren't made of shovelling dirt alone. That asphalt and concrete has to come from somewhere, and moreso if you are building more mines. A modern mine isn't a mere hole in the ground.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
rhialto said:
It takes some materials to build a modern road, yes, but it's hardly the greatest factor. Most of the roads are built before the modern age anyway. And what materials do you need to chop a forest or dig irrigation ditches? Not much, once you have built workers who are presumably equipped for such tasks. And what "heavy construction industry" did the Sumerians have, for instance? They built roads, canals, irrigation, mines, you name it. It doesn't take "heavy construction industry" it takes manpower.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
Spatula said:
I love that idea. Everybody loves that idea. That's probably why we haven't been talking about it ... there's not much to say. It's awesome.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
rhialto said:
Wouldn't axes, spades, and heavy equipment all be assumed in the current construction cost of a worker (built with shields)? You don't need to buy a whole new tractor every time you plow a field do you? I should think that the harder thing to organize is putting a worker behind every shovel, not making the shovels. The game is 6000 years long, and truly efficient tractors have only been around about 150 years. Distinguishing between two different systems would also add a layer of complexity where now it is very simply managed - get electricity, work twice as fast.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
rhialto said:
Still workers, just no worker units.
Jon Shafer
Civilization 5 Designer
Frekk, you ever played Call to Power (II)?
Something they took out in Civ3 but that was in Civ1/2 was a text pop-up informing you that x had been built. They got rid of it in Civ3 in favor of those little messages that appear above the building city that you can barely see...in order to make things move along more smoothly.
I personally would have kept the pop-up system only condense it into 1 Domestic Advisor prompt with a list of the things built. You then click on the events that interest you or close the prompt if there is no interest.
I would do this for each advisor:
Example:
Military Advisor
............................................................................
: _ x :
: Units Lost:
:
: \/ ___________ (pull down list; click on item an map centers on square)
:
: Units Attacked:
:
: \/ ___________
:
: Cities Lost:
:
: \/ ___________
:
: o List All Available Forces
:
: o See Intelligence on:
:
: \/ ___________
:
............................................................................
Info on rival civs could definitely be more streamlined and include a lot more info.
I personally would have kept the pop-up system only condense it into 1 Domestic Advisor prompt with a list of the things built. You then click on the events that interest you or close the prompt if there is no interest.
I would do this for each advisor:
Example:
Military Advisor
............................................................................
: _ x :
: Units Lost:
:
: \/ ___________ (pull down list; click on item an map centers on square)
:
: Units Attacked:
:
: \/ ___________
:
: Cities Lost:
:
: \/ ___________
:
: o List All Available Forces
:
: o See Intelligence on:
:
: \/ ___________
:
............................................................................
Info on rival civs could definitely be more streamlined and include a lot more info.
