AlphaShard
Emperor
Have a look where? I thought this was the thread for that?
Micro Plan
- Thread starter Irgy
- Start date
? Exactly, have a look here. In the first post, where I edit in the changes...
So, we're running very low on planned turns, it's about time we started exploring options for what to do the next few turns.
I took an old test game, fixed a few mis-built tiles, and played it through to turn 40. The area that the workboat is exploring needs a lot of work, if someone good with worldbuilder would like to fix it then feel free. Although to be honest, getting the workboat exploration area right isn't such a priority anyway, the main thing is to plan the next few moves at home.
I'll have a go myself if I get some more free time.
I took an old test game, fixed a few mis-built tiles, and played it through to turn 40. The area that the workboat is exploring needs a lot of work, if someone good with worldbuilder would like to fix it then feel free. Although to be honest, getting the workboat exploration area right isn't such a priority anyway, the main thing is to plan the next few moves at home.
I'll have a go myself if I get some more free time.
So, I ran a test game myself. I hadn't read Trystero's post above in great detail (though I had the jist of it), but the game worked out quite similar. I think it's basically on the right track. It's easier to write it up as a comparison to Trystero's version above.
Differences:
* Working the silk in Canopus gets the first workboat out a turn earlier. It will get the second out a turn earlier too.
* I built a third workboat in Canopus, which I sent to the clams in the new city on Andromeda. While building this workboat Canopus could grow to size 3 to work both fish and gold.
* Lord Parkin, after chopping and building a cottage on the floodplains, built a road from Canopus. This was needed to get the worker to Sirius in time, as it was delayed a little by growing to size 3 compared to Trystero's game.
* I had the tech path Alphabet->Math->Currency->(World-buildered in Priesthood, on the assumption that we'll get it in trade)->Code of Laws. In the test game, we beat the AIs to Confucianism on turn 69. They founded Judaism on the same turn.
Similarities:
* I think the chop next is a good idea, because it gets the workboat out 4 turns earlier. Even though we'll have Math soon, I think it's worth it.
* Settler and worker in the galley on turn 62, settled on turn 64. This is as fast as we can do it while still following the plan of getting a great scientist for an academy.
Any comments on these plans welcome.
pindicator
Emperor
I know the great scientist is a priority, but for argument's sake what would be the timeline of getting the settler + worker to city site I if we delayed hiring the scientists? How much would that delay the academy vs. how much quicker the next city being founded?
Trystero
Deity
I like all the changes Irgy has proposed here. This was just a quick run through on my part, so I'm glad it stood up to some scrutiny.
This occurred to me as well. I noticed that the improved 2nd Fish was not being worked for a while. I'm glad you tried it out in a test game. By my reckoning it took 6 turns for the WB to get from Canopus to the new city.
I like this tech path. My only concern is that we need a military strategic resource, so we might work in IW if we can't find copper or horses, or trade for it.
pindicator
Emperor
Come to think of it, shouldn't we aim for Iron Working after Alphabet? That way we know the locations of iron in time for our next settler on Turn 62.
Either that or trade for it. Less chance of getting Confucianism if we self-research it, but otherwise it's got a lot going for it. I think there's a fair chance of there being iron on our island. If we find out whether AMAZON have copper that will tell us something too.
Maybe in your next message you should offer to exchange information about which resources we have. We, and the Amazons would learn a lot more about how the map maker designed the map if we could compare our starts and see where symetry exists.
Trystero
Deity
Irgy, I was trying to incorporate your changes into the micro plan, and I have some questions:
When I ran this test, if LP chopped 2 PFH tiles the 3rd WB finished 3 turns before Canopus grew to size 3, or 1 turn before growth if I chopped 1 PFH. Did you get a similar result? What did you build waiting for growth to size 3?
Here's the "two chop" micro I used:
Related to my previous question: did you chop 1 or 2 PFH before building the cottage? Also, did you start the road on the FP you cottaged?
Thanks!
When I ran this test, if LP chopped 2 PFH tiles the 3rd WB finished 3 turns before Canopus grew to size 3, or 1 turn before growth if I chopped 1 PFH. Did you get a similar result? What did you build waiting for growth to size 3?
Here's the "two chop" micro I used:
Spoiler :
Related to my previous question: did you chop 1 or 2 PFH before building the cottage? Also, did you start the road on the FP you cottaged?
Thanks!
1 chop, and indeed there was a turn of needing to build something else. I put it into a lighthouse, but it could have been anything else. Buildings have a longer stretch of time unbuilt before they lose hammers than units I think, so a building is a better choice if we're not going to get back to it soon. I can't remember if Alphabet is in by then, but if it was we could just build research for a turn too.
Trystero
Deity
OK, I updated my micro plan with Irgy's suggestions:
46: Canopus grows to size 2, works Silk and Gold
Worker moves 1N to PFH to chop.
47: Start chop
48: WB finished in Canopus, moves to Fish, start 2nd WB
49: WB in Canopus improves Fish, Canopus works Fish + Gold
Chop finished
50: Sirius grows to size 6 works 2 scientists + 2 Fish + 2 Gold
Galley finished in Sirius, start Settler
2 Warriors + Galley move to Andromeda
2nd WB finished in Canopus, moves to Fish, start 3rd WB
Worker moves 1SW and starts to cottage FP 1S of Canopus
51: Alphabet complete start Mathematics
2nd WB in Canopus improves Fish
52: Galley arrives at Andromeda, unloads Warriors, free to move
53: No action
54: Cottage finished in Canopus
55: Worker starts building road to Sirius on cottaged FP.
56: 3rd Work Boat finished in Canopus, starts Granary, WB moves to Clams at 3rd city site (6 turns)
57: Mathematics done, start Currency
Canopus grows to size 3, works 2 Fish + Gold, switch build to Worker
58: No action
59: No action
60: No action
61: No action
62: Settler done in Sirius, boards Galley. Next build??? (Exploring WB?)
63: Worker done in Canopus, moves to Sirius (3 turns), Canopus finishes Granary/builds another Worker?
64: Currency done, start Code of Laws (7 turns)
*With these changes, the Settler will be done and capable of moving to Andromeda before the Worker reaches Sirius. The galley should have enough time to ferry the Settler and return to pick up the Worker.
*I followed Irgy's suggested research path, but did not factor in the discounts from obtaining Priesthood in trade.
*At some point after Alphabet, we should acquire Monarchy in trade. This plan does not account for the revolt to Slavery + HR, or utilize the whip at all.
As always, comments/suggestions/feedback welcomed.
46: Canopus grows to size 2, works Silk and Gold
Worker moves 1N to PFH to chop.
47: Start chop
48: WB finished in Canopus, moves to Fish, start 2nd WB
49: WB in Canopus improves Fish, Canopus works Fish + Gold
Chop finished
50: Sirius grows to size 6 works 2 scientists + 2 Fish + 2 Gold
Galley finished in Sirius, start Settler
2 Warriors + Galley move to Andromeda
2nd WB finished in Canopus, moves to Fish, start 3rd WB
Worker moves 1SW and starts to cottage FP 1S of Canopus
51: Alphabet complete start Mathematics
2nd WB in Canopus improves Fish
52: Galley arrives at Andromeda, unloads Warriors, free to move
53: No action
54: Cottage finished in Canopus
55: Worker starts building road to Sirius on cottaged FP.
56: 3rd Work Boat finished in Canopus, starts Granary, WB moves to Clams at 3rd city site (6 turns)
57: Mathematics done, start Currency
Canopus grows to size 3, works 2 Fish + Gold, switch build to Worker
58: No action
59: No action
60: No action
61: No action
62: Settler done in Sirius, boards Galley. Next build??? (Exploring WB?)
63: Worker done in Canopus, moves to Sirius (3 turns), Canopus finishes Granary/builds another Worker?
64: Currency done, start Code of Laws (7 turns)
*With these changes, the Settler will be done and capable of moving to Andromeda before the Worker reaches Sirius. The galley should have enough time to ferry the Settler and return to pick up the Worker.
*I followed Irgy's suggested research path, but did not factor in the discounts from obtaining Priesthood in trade.
*At some point after Alphabet, we should acquire Monarchy in trade. This plan does not account for the revolt to Slavery + HR, or utilize the whip at all.
As always, comments/suggestions/feedback welcomed.
Looks good to me. I'll edit it into the first post when I get a chance Some minor comments:
I think I said this before somewhere, but I suggest we don't just dump the warriors at the closest point. The galley moves two spaces a turn, and there's not much to see on the northern part of the island, so why not take one warrior south with it?
It's just something to sort out at the time though, not part of the micro plan, although whoever takes the turns around then needs to know not to head straight east.
What use is a road on the floodplains? I know it feels wasteful moving back onto the gold, but it's the shortest path for building a road. I had the worker from Canopus in the galley on turn 62 along with the settler. From memory, it got there partly by actually helping build one turn of one section of road itself on turn 61. I think I also needed to wait for LP to finish a road on the same turn the worker was produced, before moving it.
Something else to note, the galley should not return to Sirius, it should be sitting one square away from Sirius on T62, where the settler and worker will step onto it from Sirius and move two spaces to be a total of 3 spaces from Sirius by the end of T62.
I think I said this before somewhere, but I suggest we don't just dump the warriors at the closest point. The galley moves two spaces a turn, and there's not much to see on the northern part of the island, so why not take one warrior south with it?
It's just something to sort out at the time though, not part of the micro plan, although whoever takes the turns around then needs to know not to head straight east.
What use is a road on the floodplains? I know it feels wasteful moving back onto the gold, but it's the shortest path for building a road. I had the worker from Canopus in the galley on turn 62 along with the settler. From memory, it got there partly by actually helping build one turn of one section of road itself on turn 61. I think I also needed to wait for LP to finish a road on the same turn the worker was produced, before moving it.
Something else to note, the galley should not return to Sirius, it should be sitting one square away from Sirius on T62, where the settler and worker will step onto it from Sirius and move two spaces to be a total of 3 spaces from Sirius by the end of T62.
Ok, updated the first post with Trystero's proposed micro, up to turn 57. Please take a look, and comments welcome. I made the following tweaks:
* Canopus works floodplains rather than silk for one turn in between the first workboat being built and the fish being improved. We don't need the 1 hammer at this stage, we might want the 1 food.
* Skipped roading the flood plains.
* Added some options - working two fish immediately in Canopus, and researching iron working.
* Canopus works floodplains rather than silk for one turn in between the first workboat being built and the fish being improved. We don't need the 1 hammer at this stage, we might want the 1 food.
* Skipped roading the flood plains.
* Added some options - working two fish immediately in Canopus, and researching iron working.
Ok, I've remembered what I actually did in my game, which is the real reason the worker got there sooner. I actually finished the third workboat *after* building the worker. So what happened in my game was that the worker got to the galley just in time, but the workboat arrived a little late. I'm not sure which is better actually, but it at least explains some of my confusion.
I also sacrificed the Canopus gold for a few turns to grow with 2 fish instead (which is how I managed to grow to build the worker at 3 pop before the workboat was finished in the first place). I believe this to be worthwhile in the long run, as it will get Canopus to its cottages sooner to catch up the commerce eventually. If we're going to the trouble of chopping out the second workboat it seems a bit inconsistant to ignore the fish for so many turns. Working them at least one turn will solve the question of what to build between finishing the third workboat and growing too, as the growth will come first.
I also sacrificed the Canopus gold for a few turns to grow with 2 fish instead (which is how I managed to grow to build the worker at 3 pop before the workboat was finished in the first place). I believe this to be worthwhile in the long run, as it will get Canopus to its cottages sooner to catch up the commerce eventually. If we're going to the trouble of chopping out the second workboat it seems a bit inconsistant to ignore the fish for so many turns. Working them at least one turn will solve the question of what to build between finishing the third workboat and growing too, as the growth will come first.
Trystero
Deity
I considered this as well, but didn't try it in the micro plan. I see no reason not to do this.
I also agree with the tweaks you made in the subsequent post.
I will try these variations out in a test game when I get the chance.
Trystero
Deity
I tried a test game over lunch, building the worker after the 2nd WB. I'm not sure of exactly what you did, but I tried building the road only on the Gold hill, and then chopping a second forest to speed the 3rd WB. I did this because if we research Math immediately after Alphabet, it would be done in time for the chopping bonus to apply. I didn't try this switching to work both Fish tiles, though. I'll try that next. Briefly, here's how it played out:
(Built Worker in Canopus at the point where the current micro plan calls for a 3rd WB)
56: start roading Gold hill in Canopus
57: Math done, road done
58: Worker1 (LP) moves 1E (to Silk) or 1NE (to PFH) to chop
Worker2 done in Canopus, moves to tile 1W of Sirius (to cottage)
Canopus starts 3rd WB
59: Worker1 starts chop
60: Worker2 starts cottage
61: chop done, Worker 2 stops cottage
62: Settler done in Sirius, Settler + Worker2 move into Galley, 3rd WB done in Canopus > moves to 3rd city clams.
Yeah, I don't like the idea of chopping out a second workboat only to build a worker at 2 pop working just gold and one fish. Might as well send the second workboat to Andromeda if we're going to do that
It sounds like it works out reasonably ok though. See if it's better growing to three pop first I guess. I might get time to play around again myself either this afternoon or tomorrow too.
It sounds like it works out reasonably ok though. See if it's better growing to three pop first I guess. I might get time to play around again myself either this afternoon or tomorrow too.
caveman1917
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2009
- Messages
- 110
I'm not sure if this is too much work to ask, but since many here seem to be using it anyway:
Is it possible that, together with the current micro-plan, there is also a current test-save in the first post? That way it's a lot easier to have a go at it, without duplicating effort into world-buildering it.
Is it possible that, together with the current micro-plan, there is also a current test-save in the first post? That way it's a lot easier to have a go at it, without duplicating effort into world-buildering it.
Trystero
Deity
I can't edit the first post, but here is a test game save played up to the current turn (turn 49).
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