caveman1917
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2009
- Messages
- 110
Micro Plan
- Thread starter Irgy
- Start date
Trystero
Deity
I can update the save and post it here. But once we meet a few more civs, we are rapidly going to surpass my abilities to World Builder in all the relevant variables (trade routes, etc).
I'll try to get the test game with the latest move posted in a bit.
Edit: Latest test game save (turn 50) attached. Note that I neglected to change tile assignments in Canopus to Fish + Gold in the last save. I made that change here so that it corresponds to our game.
Trystero
Deity
From the Turn Discussion Thread:
I tried this quickly:
51:
* Alphabet complete start Mathematics
* 2nd WB in Canopus improves Fish
* Canopus works two fish from this turn on.
52: No action
53: No action
54:
* Canopus grows to size 3, works two fish and gold
* Cottage finished in Canopus
55: Lord Parkin moves to gold
56: Lord Parkin starts roading between the two cities.
57: Mathematics done, start Currency.
58
* 3rd Work Boat finished in Canopus.
* WB moves to Clams at 3rd city site (6 turns)
* Canopus starts worker
59: No action
60: No action
61: No action
62: Settler done in Sirius, start next build
63: Worker done in Canopus, start next build
Looks OK to me. Something to consider If we send Lord Parkin to Sirius on turn 59 he will arrive in time to leave with the Settler. Is that more worthwhile than building the road?
I tried this quickly:
51:
* Alphabet complete start Mathematics
* 2nd WB in Canopus improves Fish
* Canopus works two fish from this turn on.
52: No action
53: No action
54:
* Canopus grows to size 3, works two fish and gold
* Cottage finished in Canopus
55: Lord Parkin moves to gold
56: Lord Parkin starts roading between the two cities.
57: Mathematics done, start Currency.
58
* 3rd Work Boat finished in Canopus.
* WB moves to Clams at 3rd city site (6 turns)
* Canopus starts worker
59: No action
60: No action
61: No action
62: Settler done in Sirius, start next build
63: Worker done in Canopus, start next build
Looks OK to me. Something to consider If we send Lord Parkin to Sirius on turn 59 he will arrive in time to leave with the Settler. Is that more worthwhile than building the road?
My original idea was to pause the workboat and finish the worker first. This would presumably mean the workboat is finished turn 63 instead of the worker, making it get there fairly late.
Your idea of sticking Lord Parkin on the boat with the settler seems like the best option. The workboat looks like it will arrive at the Andromeda city on almost exactly the right turn to settle the clams.
Your idea of sticking Lord Parkin on the boat with the settler seems like the best option. The workboat looks like it will arrive at the Andromeda city on almost exactly the right turn to settle the clams.
Some further tweaks updated in the first post. I've added in the specific turn on which the galley needs to head back, a reminder not to move it all the way back into Sirius (as it's a waste of a galley turn), and details of Lord Parkin's moves, which now include moving into the galley.
pindicator
Emperor
That's okay Trystero - i think we will just have to ballpark things like research rate in the future. We can put in the detail for worker moves still, or troop movements.
Trystero
Deity
Here is the test save file for the last turn played (turn 51). I added the techs gained by trade with the AMAZON, and I World Buildered in Andromeda/Jennilund according to the AMAZON description of the land mass.
Editted into the first post. Thanks for the effort Trystero 
In general I'd recommend we update and upload the test game only every few turns or so, just to trade off the work of uploading it against the work of other people playing a few extra turns to test things. Of course it's worth posting this one now with all the extra work you've done in worldbuilder.
In general I'd recommend we update and upload the test game only every few turns or so, just to trade off the work of uploading it against the work of other people playing a few extra turns to test things. Of course it's worth posting this one now with all the extra work you've done in worldbuilder.
Trystero
Deity
Yeah - I don't think I'll do this every turn, but this particular turn was eventful tech-wise, so I thought I'd try making the island at the same time.
Seidrik_The_Gray
Seidrik The Gray
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,160
Pardon my stupid question, but if we're allowed to play the game through for several turns for "planning purposes" in a "test environment." What's to keep us or other players/teams from using the test files to discover where all the resources are?
AlphaShard
Emperor
Because it isn't the actual game map, it's created outside of the game. We have no idea about the resources. For instance We had a mistake of Plains FP on it.
Trystero
Deity
Just a quick note. Looking at some screen shots, I've noticed some discrepancies between my map of Andromeda, and the actual one in the game. (I missed the whole bottom row of land tiles, for instance). I will make corrections and start to include the island to the south, but I won't update the test save for a few turns, so I can get more information from scouting.
Seidrik_The_Gray
Seidrik The Gray
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,160
Ahhh! I told you it might be a stupid question! Thank you!
Trystero
Deity
I want to start doing some more micro, so here is the current test game. This is a new map where I am reconstructing the map with WB as we uncover it, and I've added in our opponents (although I've given them pretty awful starts 
)
Edit: this save deleted due to errors
)Edit: this save deleted due to errors
Trystero
Deity
Here is some more micro, but it is more of a starting point for discussion rather than a finished production. Briefly the aim here is to get out another settler and worker quickly (for the horse site on Andromeda), and also build a couple of warriors for securing Andromeda. This is accomplished by having the worker built in Canopus chop out the next settler, while Sirius builds 2 warriors and a WB (for the Andromeda clams).
One thing that we (probably me) failed to note in the current micro plan is that Canopus grows to size 4 on the turn the WB is done (turn 58). This makes it much better to build settlers/workers in Canopus if we work the cottaged FP (+2 fish and gold). Sirius is currently stagnant, so it won't grow above the happy cap if we build warriors and WBs there.
Also, in this test, if we found Confucianism, Arcturus would be the holy city.
The plan:
Thoughts welcome.
One thing that we (probably me) failed to note in the current micro plan is that Canopus grows to size 4 on the turn the WB is done (turn 58). This makes it much better to build settlers/workers in Canopus if we work the cottaged FP (+2 fish and gold). Sirius is currently stagnant, so it won't grow above the happy cap if we build warriors and WBs there.
Also, in this test, if we found Confucianism, Arcturus would be the holy city.
The plan:
Spoiler :
Thoughts welcome.
Played it through, some comments.
First on the test game, a couple of issues. One is that we are in danger of running out of space to the south. It probably doesn't really matter, but if you do another one I'd recommend using a bigger sized base map.
The bigger issue though: set all land to ocean not coast to begin with. The game will then fix the coast automatically when you add the land. It's not a big issue for the most part, but the fish in Canopus are currently 3 commerce coast in the test game where they should be 1 commerce ocean, and this in turn mucks up all the dates for the technologies (well, actually, it doesn't change any of them in this run based on what I saw after I fixed it - although we need to check whether our current beakers in Math is correct or not).
One other minor thing, it's missing the clams just N of the copper. I'll upload a save where I've partly fixed the coast/ocean issue and added the clams.
I would build a worker here. We need a lot more workers, the plan as it is will get us to four cities and two workers, whereas the 1.5 rule says we should have 6! I don't think we're in any sort of rush to build warriors or to settle the horses. I'd like the next military unit we build to be an axeman personally (ok with one exception I'll mention next).
We really are short of workers though. On turn 67 we'll ge the great scientist, and once we do we really ought to have two improved tiles to work instead of the scientists (either grass hill mines or cottages), and at this stage it genuinely doesn't look very likely that we will even if we do build a worker now (as it won't be done until turn 69).
So, Canopus is not at the happy cap yet. Well it kind of is, but only because it has no defender. So, I'd recommend a warrior next, grow to the next pop size and work either a mine or another flood plains cottage. For that reason (and because I don't think there's a rush for the settler without enough workers) I'd build a warrior here and grow to size 3.
Or another option I'm thinking is to build yet another worker first. We can improve the second flood plain (or a mine) with this worker, but I'm starting to think that we actually need to get moving on building improvements near Sirius for when the scientist pops.
You mean we go to all the trouble of sending the worker to Arcturus, then just send it back? It did actually take me a while but I figured out what you meant, just being cheeky now.
Also, we start CoL this turn. When testing, I'd recommend world-buildering in Priesthood before starting it, as AMAZON have promised that we'll have it by then.
Well, not a worker first because we want to grow to 2 pop first to work both the clams and the copper. I'd say either granary (that we might interrupt once we get to 2 pop) or warriors.
It arrived one turn later than this in my test, with each other galley move a turn later because of this. Actually I think I've just figured out why. I settled 1N of the copper, you settled 1NE. We can work out where to settle when we've seen more terrain.
From memory, we can work 1 less scientist this turn if we want.
On this turn, we should stop working the two scientists and start growing again (depending on what we're building anyway). I'd really like to get a granary ASAP, so that we can grow properly. That partly depends on when we're likely to get Monarchy though.
One final thing, I think we should still consider the possibility of bulbing Philosophy if we miss the religion from Code of Laws. Whether we want to hold up the Academy for a turn just in case we miss it I'm not sure though, I'd guess that we should probably only take the Philosophy idea seriously if we've already missed Confucianism when the scientist pops.
First on the test game, a couple of issues. One is that we are in danger of running out of space to the south. It probably doesn't really matter, but if you do another one I'd recommend using a bigger sized base map.
The bigger issue though: set all land to ocean not coast to begin with. The game will then fix the coast automatically when you add the land. It's not a big issue for the most part, but the fish in Canopus are currently 3 commerce coast in the test game where they should be 1 commerce ocean, and this in turn mucks up all the dates for the technologies (well, actually, it doesn't change any of them in this run based on what I saw after I fixed it - although we need to check whether our current beakers in Math is correct or not).
One other minor thing, it's missing the clams just N of the copper. I'll upload a save where I've partly fixed the coast/ocean issue and added the clams.
I would build a worker here. We need a lot more workers, the plan as it is will get us to four cities and two workers, whereas the 1.5 rule says we should have 6! I don't think we're in any sort of rush to build warriors or to settle the horses. I'd like the next military unit we build to be an axeman personally (ok with one exception I'll mention next).
We really are short of workers though. On turn 67 we'll ge the great scientist, and once we do we really ought to have two improved tiles to work instead of the scientists (either grass hill mines or cottages), and at this stage it genuinely doesn't look very likely that we will even if we do build a worker now (as it won't be done until turn 69).
So, Canopus is not at the happy cap yet. Well it kind of is, but only because it has no defender. So, I'd recommend a warrior next, grow to the next pop size and work either a mine or another flood plains cottage. For that reason (and because I don't think there's a rush for the settler without enough workers) I'd build a warrior here and grow to size 3.
Or another option I'm thinking is to build yet another worker first. We can improve the second flood plain (or a mine) with this worker, but I'm starting to think that we actually need to get moving on building improvements near Sirius for when the scientist pops.
(emphasis mine)
You mean we go to all the trouble of sending the worker to Arcturus, then just send it back?
It did actually take me a while but I figured out what you meant, just being cheeky now.Also, we start CoL this turn. When testing, I'd recommend world-buildering in Priesthood before starting it, as AMAZON have promised that we'll have it by then.
Well, not a worker first because we want to grow to 2 pop first to work both the clams and the copper. I'd say either granary (that we might interrupt once we get to 2 pop) or warriors.
It arrived one turn later than this in my test, with each other galley move a turn later because of this. Actually I think I've just figured out why. I settled 1N of the copper, you settled 1NE. We can work out where to settle when we've seen more terrain.
From memory, we can work 1 less scientist this turn if we want.
On this turn, we should stop working the two scientists and start growing again (depending on what we're building anyway). I'd really like to get a granary ASAP, so that we can grow properly. That partly depends on when we're likely to get Monarchy though.
One final thing, I think we should still consider the possibility of bulbing Philosophy if we miss the religion from Code of Laws. Whether we want to hold up the Academy for a turn just in case we miss it I'm not sure though, I'd guess that we should probably only take the Philosophy idea seriously if we've already missed Confucianism when the scientist pops.
Trystero
Deity
Thanks Irgy for your feedback. As I mentioned, this is sort of a "rough sketch" so I appreciate you taking a look at this.
Odd. The "Final Game Settings" thread lists the map size as "Standard" which is what I used. Perhaps the size is off because I used "Hub" as the starting map?
Aw crud. Apparently, the "Change tile to Ocean" tile button is different from the "Ocean" tile button. Well, I did want to learn about WB doing this, so good to know. And yes, the coastal fish in Canopus (I should have caught that
) means we have 220 beakers in Math in the Test and only 207 beakers in the actual game. I will attempt to fix this map before I post the next save.
Yeah, I caught that as well, but forgot to mention it.
I would normally agree with you about the workers, but I think two other factors come into play. First: the map. This semi-isolated island start means that we have built a lot of work boats. The WBs effectively allow us to rapidly improve tiles at newly founded cities. That's why I built another work boat rather than a worker for the horse city. The second factor is that our current cities are at or near their happy caps, and thus can't work many more improved tiles. Now I agree we should be improving tiles, but we haven't had much need to up to this point. Having said all that, I agree more workers would be good.
I think my emphasis here was to get at least 4 cities up quickly. I don't think the lack of workers should slow our expansion. The sooner the horse city is founded, the sooner it is producing culture. Also new cities add to our production, even if that contribution is meager at first. I really think we need to get more settlers out now. I also think it is a good idea to build a few warriors while we can. Both to fogbust, and to use as cheap MPs when we adopt HR. What we could do is have the horse city build it's own WB while it grows and build another worker in Sirius.
I was considering building another warrior here to grow to pop 5, but I decided to use Canopus to pump out workers/settlers. Growing to 5 might be more efficient.
I'm just thinking "outside the box" as it were. 
Yeah, I might have missed a comma there.
Yes, it was hard to factor in trades, but giving us PH seems like a good idea.
Sounds good.
Yeah, we need to see more of the map before making an informed decision. I told you this was rather rough.
I've advocated bulbing Philosophy elsewhere. I think that's a good idea. In my test the GS would have bulbed Aesthetics, but I'm guessing that's because I didn't have Priesthood.
Thanks again Irgy. You've given me some things to think about.
Odd. The "Final Game Settings" thread lists the map size as "Standard" which is what I used. Perhaps the size is off because I used "Hub" as the starting map?
Aw crud. Apparently, the "Change tile to Ocean" tile button is different from the "Ocean" tile button. Well, I did want to learn about WB doing this, so good to know. And yes, the coastal fish in Canopus (I should have caught that
) means we have 220 beakers in Math in the Test and only 207 beakers in the actual game. I will attempt to fix this map before I post the next save.Yeah, I caught that as well, but forgot to mention it.
I would normally agree with you about the workers, but I think two other factors come into play. First: the map. This semi-isolated island start means that we have built a lot of work boats. The WBs effectively allow us to rapidly improve tiles at newly founded cities. That's why I built another work boat rather than a worker for the horse city. The second factor is that our current cities are at or near their happy caps, and thus can't work many more improved tiles. Now I agree we should be improving tiles, but we haven't had much need to up to this point. Having said all that, I agree more workers would be good.
I think my emphasis here was to get at least 4 cities up quickly. I don't think the lack of workers should slow our expansion. The sooner the horse city is founded, the sooner it is producing culture. Also new cities add to our production, even if that contribution is meager at first. I really think we need to get more settlers out now. I also think it is a good idea to build a few warriors while we can. Both to fogbust, and to use as cheap MPs when we adopt HR. What we could do is have the horse city build it's own WB while it grows and build another worker in Sirius.
I was considering building another warrior here to grow to pop 5, but I decided to use Canopus to pump out workers/settlers. Growing to 5 might be more efficient.
(emphasis mine)
You mean we go to all the trouble of sending the worker to Arcturus, then just send it back?
I'm just thinking "outside the box" as it were. Yeah, I might have missed a comma there.Yes, it was hard to factor in trades, but giving us PH seems like a good idea.
Sounds good.
Yeah, we need to see more of the map before making an informed decision. I told you this was rather rough.
I've advocated bulbing Philosophy elsewhere. I think that's a good idea. In my test the GS would have bulbed Aesthetics, but I'm guessing that's because I didn't have Priesthood.
Thanks again Irgy. You've given me some things to think about.
