Middle Ages scenario: Am I doing something wrong?

[player1 fanatic]

Playing as England, on Emperor difficulty.
I conquered Celts with no big probelms (army rocks).

I took 2 cities from French and burned the 3rd one (Orleans).

And I'm technologicly backward civ.

It seems that Monachy unit support doesn't favor me at all.
Without access to Aquaducts or Marketplaces I barely have enough money for unit support, even at 100% tax.
Over time, I bought Horse Riding, Castle Building, Code of Laws and got Monasticism with peace treaty with French.

On the other hand, one turn before I razed Orleans (after which I signed peace), French got first Crusader and that means they will have much better military tech (luckly they didn't had any Knigts at the moment). And I still have just bunch of Swordsmen, and will probably make more (since all other infrastucture is already built).

What should I do, how to get Feudalism for Knights and keep good military?


I was really thinking at one point that I would've been better in Despotism, because that way I could maybe get some tech.

Still, I miss that Feudalism government doesn't exsist in this scenario.
It would be terrific for this setup.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Here is the save (just before the war with the French).

 

[player1 fanatic]

Here is the save (few turns after the war with the French).

 

[~Corsair#01~]

How many troops do you have?! I'm as the French and have about 250 troops, then again I own all of Western Europe.
I would advocate a change in strategy. Capture a weak country's relic, then lay low until you A. Have galleys, or B. Have a HUGE number of those crappy little boats you get at the start, then just load up your army and take Jerusalem in one vast battle- game over.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Well, I would really like to take out French first, so I won't lose captured cities by culture.

But to do that I need good military tech.
And that's almost imossibile since even with 100% tax I barely get enough money to support the troops.

Should I just switch everything to wealth and put science at bare minimum to get Knights?



P.S.
I lost my 2 starting Galleys.
One from Finish barbarians and another by French cluture flip. lucky my starting army is already on french soil and not in britain.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Look 2nd save for troop calculations.

 

[Pook]

I agree with Corsair#01's strategy. Get out of the war with the French- it's not helping you.
Losing those two galleys really hurts. Make a beeline for Seafaring so that you can build your own galleys. Corsair#01 is right- you need two relics into Jerusalem to win- one is not enough.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

First, don't start with a minimum run on Norse Traditions. Balcksmiths rule, and once you know the starting tech of the other flavors. the others are cheap to trade for. Then, make as many contacts as possible; your Galleys rule here again. Head for Code of Laws and Map Making. Prebuild the Domesday Book. Broker TM and WM like mad - if you're first for Map Making, you should get all available techs, about 1000gp and a complete WM. Usually you'll also get one or more Luxes, but as England you don't own a Harbor.
For more strategy, look at the SG forum; there was a RBCiv series, and 5 of my own Middle Ages Modified games, featuring the normally AI only Civs (who are ALL much weaker than England).

 

[player1 fanatic]

I agree with Corsair#01's strategy. Get out of the war with the French- it's not helping you.
Losing those two galleys really hurts. Make a beeline for Seafaring so that you can build your own galleys. Corsair#01 is right- you need two relics into Jerusalem to win- one is not enough.

Well, I would really like to take Paris at some point, so I could get 2nd relic.

But for that I need better tech and my unit support doesn't encourage sci. development.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Any good strategies to continue current game (look the saves).

My cities can't really build anything exemp units (barracks, temple and town hall already built). And units seem to become obsolete since french got knight and crusader techs.

 

[Strider]

I got done playing the Middle Age screnario today with Denmark (Demigod difficulty), and had no problem. I took out Germany/Poland/England/Celts first and just kind of sat back and let my cities build up after that.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Well, putting out island nations like england or celts with beserks is really easy.

 

[Cuivienen]

As England, DO:

Minimum research on Norse Tradition.
Buy Horseback Riding.
Conquer the Celts
Research/Buy Castle Building
Beeline for Map Making
Buy Monasticism in the Map trades
Pre-build, then build The Holy Roman Empire
Grab Arab Learning and Feudalism with the HRE.
Invade France while allied with Burgundy. (Or Germany if Burgundy is defunct.)
Trade around with the Byzantines, Abbasids and Turks, who will nearly always be the top three in tech.
Build Robin Hood. (The AI can't cascade to it.)
Sack Jerusalem carrying the Holy Grail and Crown of Thorns thriumphantly through the streets.
Win.

 

[tomart109]

Well, I would really like to take Paris at some point, so I could get 2nd relic.

Playing Germany, I just watched the French and Burgundian relics walk by, carried by lone Swordsmen on Barbarian-chasing duty!!!!?!?!?!!!!
I followed them, not ready to snatch them and start wars, but curious where they were going. It wasn't to Jerusalem! One went up to the far north (Finn) bunch of barbs, the other went due east across the Rusland...

This was early in the game, they must have just picked up their relics and then went about their normal duties...

So this explains why I couldn't find relics in capitals in previous games...

(Note: you can't tell who's carrying them unless you right-click on the unit or stack - then it's obvious, that unit's words are in red!)

Also: Some civs in this Conquest have a hard time financing big armies. When I played Cordova and Fatimids, I was paying 30 or more gold per turn to field the big armies that won more land that supported more armies...
I certainly favor the Feudalism government in this Conquest.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Noticed I made a typing error in my first reply, making the opening sentence nonsense. Of course, *DO* research Norse Traditions at min.

Ciuvenien's tutotial is absolutely correct. The only other good way England can be won even on Sid is:
*Research nothing but HBR and CB.
*Pump up London to size 12.
*Build Temple in Thetford ASAP.
*Contact everyone.
*Gift London to a Civ that cannot reach you (essentially everyone except Vikings, Celts and France).
*Immediately declare on that Civ, capture London (you own a tile directly adjacent to the city). 1200VPs.
*Gift London to the next Civ. Declare. Capture.
*Rinse, repeat. Will net you around 15000VPs.
*After about 20 turns, you will be able to talk with everyone again. Gift London for Peace, declare, capture.
*Even your rep stays clean...

Exploit? Well, can hardly imagine a bigger one

 

[player1 fanatic]

Since, nobody bothered do look the save, I would just ask.
What can you do when you have no Feudalism, when enemy tech will make mockery of your Swordsmen, when cities can't build anything better then units (infrastructure already built), and when you have no money to fund the tech.

Please, I just want to contunie current game.

 

[nullspace]

Since, nobody bothered do look the save, I would just ask.
What can you do when you have no Feudalism, when enemy tech will make mockery of your Swordsmen, when cities can't build anything better then units (infrastructure already built), and when you have no money to fund the tech.

Please, I just want to contunie current game.

That's just the way things are for the european civs in this scenario, it IS the dark ages. I don't know why you're saying that everyone has better units than you; no one is ahead of you in tech except France. Your swordsmen are fine as long as you avoid the berserks, and French knights. The only problem I see is that you have a large army (unavoidable), but you're not using it. You can get a ROP with France and use that to attack just about anybody in Europe.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

What are you doing wrong? Quite a lot

Picked up the second save, and got Feudalism in 12 turns.

• Far too few cities. When you killed off the Celts, you should have had a couple of Settlers at hand to fill Ireland. But still room for 3 more cities in England, and the Isle of Man. One of those cities in England isn’t great, but required to bring Irrigation to the N.
• Your capital (only city with a Market!) works unimproved tiles.
Better MM required. Disband 2 Regulars. Can change from +6gpt to +18gpt.
• You’re not building Monasteries? They are Libraries!
• You have far too many Swords. I will disband a few of those in the next turns. Horses are better; the only Civs you have to fear now are Vikings, and Berserks are weak on defence. And Horses upgrade to Knight (though horribly expensive – but you’re planning to capture Ghent with Knights Templar anyway, right ?)
• You didn’t broker Maps. Key is giving Monasticism to Poland for WM. This is especially helpful, since a strong Poland means a weaker Germany anyway.
Start with 92gp and little knowledge of the map. End with a complete WM, 381gp and 5gpt. This allows me to get Feudalism in 18 at -27gpt. But unit support is currently 48gpt, this will improve.

Enter.
Turn 1:
Disband useless units – the Curragh in the Mediterranean Sea, some Reg Spears, most Vet Swords in France. Move Armies out, flip risk is huge.
Repeat the Map brokering. Start at 354gp, end with 397gp. Hire more Scientists, Feudalism in 15.

Turn 2:
Join Worker to Chippenham.
Maps: Only 15gp this turn.
Feudalism in 12 @ -25gpt.

Turn 3:
WM brokering isn’t worth anything.

Turn 4:
Found Coventry. Should be only a temporary city, to bring irrigation up N. Set to wealth now, will build Settler or Worker to disband.

Turn 5+6 lots of roading, 2 more Settlers.

Turn 7:
1st Monastry completes, start Knight prebuilds.

Turn 8:
Monastery in Chippenham, found city on Isle of Man, Feudalism in 5 @ - 40gpt

9,10,11 landscaping

Turn 12:
Feudalism comes in, 1st Knight completes. Trade Feudalism to Poland for Early Siegecraft, Worker and WM. Hawk around WM. Found 2 more cities.
I now strongly suggest to research Norse Traditions ASAP (currently in 20, but that will improve further), trade for Smithing, found a couple more cities close to Angers (you can grab their only Iron!), trigger your GA against a weak Civ like Castile, build Manors and Blacksmiths everywhere, stockpile Knights and whack France. Get Arab Learning soon, you can build Hospitals.

Voila, Feudalism, positive cashflow at 40% Science, Early Siegecraft, complete World Map in 12 turns.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Anyway, I just realised why France get good military tech.
HolyRomanEmpire wonder.


Thanks for help Doc.

 

[player1 fanatic]

I think I just got too addicted in making war with France, that when they got HRE I was completly unable to adapt.