Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (Private Beta I)

zxe said:
When did the hobbits ever muster regular infantry? Besides the 'scouring', weren't all hobbit solders missile units? What about something along these lines?

[edit]

Personally, I would rather see no infantry whatsoever. Only defensive spear units, missile units, and the adventure units/bounders. If they are to have infantry (sword/club style) it should come as part of a wonder. Is there any precedence for swords/clubs besides in the 3rd age under saruman?
Well, there were Bounders, or border guards, presumably throughout most of the Third Age. Here are some references of Bounders:

"At the time when this story begins the Bounders, as they were called, had been greatly increased. There were many reports and complaints of strange persons and creatures prowling the borders, or over them:"

"'All the same,' said Sam, 'you can't deny that others besides our Halfast have seen queer folk crossing the Shire - Crossing it, mind you: there are more that are turned back at the borders. The Bounders have never been so busy before."

As for telling whether or not they used clubs or swords before the Third Age, it is impossible. Hobbits don't seem to exist until the beginning of the Third Age. It is a situation similar to America in Civ3. Although the accounts of early third age hobbits are few, we can gather from Gollum that they were primitive people, and probably were more likely to use clubs.

Since we need to wing a lot of history here, I'd say we should do it like this; base units off of knowable history. In other words, extend the history of the hobbit's advancement during the third age throughout all the ages.
If they were primitive and used clubs early on in their existence, let's give the Hobbits clubs and a primitive status for the first age. Then as we progress, they become farm-like. I.e. farm type utensils in the second era. In the third era, we can base their units off of how they were during the time of the various Thains and Bullroarer. After this, the next step would be the early Fourth age. With Pippin as Thain, someone who served as a royal guard in Gondor, I'd imagine they would have adopted swords.

Hobbits are supposedly an offshoot of Men.
oh, and Zxe, check out the links section to the MSN info site, there is a link to the discussion on invisible hobbit units.
Hamah said:
I can´t remember any slingers too, most of them were archers and some of them with forks and staffs and spears is not a bad idea.
As Mrtn has made me aware, Hobbits also used axes in the scouring of the Shire. I think the axe a good weapon that can come before swords in the offensive line. It has a sort of that militia feel to it. I remember reading that axes were the weapon of choice of many Northern European warriors in the dark ages, when drafted to fight in a battle.
Plotinus said:
I believe it's stated that Hobbits as a rule cannot march more than eight leagues in a day, which is pretty feeble really.

However, it's good that the point is made that all of this has been debated and settled a long time ago. The only question really is precisely what these different units look like, and I think that it's best if PCHighway give a final verdict so that Aaglo knows what he's doing! It's great that he made the offer. I'm sure the results won't disappoint.
I'm not going to say that Hobbits would have good mobility (movement), but I'd think they'd have pretty good agility. Mobility and agility can be intertwined. I can definitely see the hobbits as being more stealthy than a man. For quite obvious reasons. I don't see the offense line getting Stealth Attack options as being too far-out. Although I won't intergrate it. That is the stuff for testing in betas.

Final verdict! Am I the king now? :)
In such a case, I have studied over the matters at hand meticulously, and, in royal fashion have come to a prudent decision. By the power bestowed on me as final-verdict-man, I hereby declare that PCH, out of Demetra Apostalatos by Emmett Joyce, secede unit graphic powers to the new Aaglo ambassador; Martin (Mrtn).
Because of his familiarity with the subject.
Because of his good-taste in graphics.
Because of his non-colorblinded-ness.
Because of his like of hobbits.
So it has been typed, so shall it be done. These be the words of truth, the only good orc is a dead orc, in the name of all that is Elvish, in vengeance of the betrayers of the light, in bloated royal circumstance;
It is done.

Sorry, I had to do that ;). These Cheetos have interesting qualities in them.
Seriously though, I think he (Mrtn) can better decide about this than I can. I just want to remind Mrtn about the hairy feet, and how they would be really cool on the defense, mostly militia, line. Mrtn has talked to Aaglo over MSN about it, so he can decide and stuff.

Much, much, thanks to aaglo for doing this. :goodjob:
 
Attaboy, PCH, way to delegate! :)

Clubs, farming, axes -- they all sound good to me. I had refrained, originally, from suggesting axes, because I didn't get the hobbit feel from them. But seeing how they're in the Scouring of the Shire, I'm converted! (Not like it matters too terribly much.)
 
@TLC: Mobility is not speed. I view mobility as the ability to move around (ie: from terrain to terrain). While they could not travel far hobbits would have had a considerable advantage when passing through a forest or swampland - in fact, they can go places that men dare not travel ;)

@everyone: Thanks for the references to previous posts - there's nothing quite like wading through 10,000 posts before you understand what someone is talking about.

@PCH: I like what I see within the site, re: hobbit invisibility. That should make for a distinct hobbit-style game strategy. My question though, is doesn't that interfere with TLC's gameplay issues? Regardless, it is a moot point, because it has already been decided and I like the final decision. :D
Also, I like the utilization of axes - much better than swords, plus it has historical accuracy.

In terms of 'mobility', I would like to see some units able to move freely through swamp or forest - particularly swamp. Perhaps adventurers? Of course, they should not recieve this bonus within 'dark forest'. (I did my homework this time.)
 
The nasty hobbitses starting unit throws a stone.
zxe said:
In terms of 'mobility', I would like to see some units able to move freely through swamp or forest - particularly swamp. Perhaps adventurers? Of course, they should not recieve this bonus within 'dark forest'. (I did my homework this time.)
I'm not sure about giving the hobbits movement 2, but we could always give the M=1 units ignore swamp movement cost, so that their armies move through swamp fast, if we want.
 
Does this guy look hobbity? Should they generally wear hats? And I suppose it should be smaller than that... :mischief:

[Edit]: I attached some size comparison for reference - as you can see, the kender swordsman really doesn't fit to the scheme... :(
 
Weasel Op said:
What's the point of giving a 1 MP unit ignore movement cost?
Read my post more careful. ;)
The idea is that an army with this unit get +1 move, and thus can move 2, and ignore movement costs...
 
Sorry to stick my nose in here, but are you guys sure you are handling this 'world's best and fastest unit maker offering to make units for you' -situation right?

Normally modders are scrambling for unit makers to do stuff for them, here it seems like people don't care enough to even comment on the unit. Puzzling.

The hobbit looks very hobbity to me. Size looks ok and the unit design is nice.
 
Hey, just cuz some of us aren't glued to the infobahn 24-7 doesn't mean we're squandering super-unit-man's talents! Besides, some of our asian members are, uh, only waking up now? (I never remember if its waking up or going to sleep, though.)

The hobbit looks great to me. I don't think he needs a hat at all. I love the stripes, and the flat-bladed axe. His size is fine, that kender is way too tall. Assuming our Vanilla Warrior buddy is 6 feet tall, I'd say a 4-foot hobbit is about right. (Apparently hobbits were somewhat shorter than dwarves, but I think at this scale that doesn't matter so much.)

So I dunno what mrtn, the newly appointed regent of unit advice, has told you -- aaglo -- on the chat, but as far as I'm concerned, don't change anything. Rather, full steam ahead!
 
@aaglo

:blush:

Damn messengers...

@Mithadan

I didn't naturally mean that people should be online all the time, I was just perplexed with two posts from regulars with no comment at all on the unit. But it's all right. I think I sounded more serious than I intended, I've been reading these threads here and there and I have no delusions on your wish to get more units made for the mod. :)
 
FOr what my opinion is worth, the only thing I would change on your hobbit aaglo is maybe (and I stress maybe) make him a bit fatter/stockier. Other than that I think its great.
 
Steel General, I see what you mean, but as it's about the same size (in height) as a dwarf we don't want it to look as big as a dwarf, and aaglo and I thought it can look smaller if it's thinner. But maybe some of the units can get a paunch or something. :)
To get that "English middle class" look. :)
@Drift, don't worry, we try to keep our PR in order. ;) I mostly discussed size with aaglo. And yes, I'm fairly sure I told him it looks good. ;) :thumbsup:
 
Drift said:
I think I sounded more serious than I intended...
Whoops, actually I think I sounded more serious than I intended! :blush: I was only playing at being scandalised, but I should have tried to convey that better with a smiley or somethting. Damn ASCII text, doesn't quite replace face-to-face embodied commmunication, now, does it? Sorry for any misunderstanding.
 
aaglo said:
Does this guy look hobbity? Should they generally wear hats? And I suppose it should be smaller than that... :mischief:

You make it awfully hard to criticize your work aaglo! It looks very good. But If I was to offer some constructive criticism:

1. I think a change in hair colour might make the unit look a bit sharper. The skin and hair are fairly similar, making the unit look a little 'less human'? than intended.
2. I know very little about body sizes, etc, but don't the hands seem a little big? Especially when compared against the hobbit's head?

Besides these, great job. :goodjob: I would be happy to use the unit as-is, but since a request has been made for feedback...
 
Hey, guys! What about mounted hobbits?
I think that a pony rider is a good idea for the hobbits units line. :)
 
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