Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (Private Beta I)

[PCHighway]

Hmm, I'd rather see archers.
Shire-Reeve is just an earlier name for the famous Shirriffs of the Shire.
The Shirriffs were famous for their bows, I'd imagine the Shire-Reeves to be as well.
I don't like the idea of a Hobbit carrying a mase or club.

For defense, I think a staff would work nicely, and could upgrade to the spear unit.
Hobbit Militia: Hobbit with a staff
Hobbit Levy: Hobbit with a pitchfork
Hobbit Guard: Hobbit with a spear
Smial Guardian: Metal-Armored hobbit with a spear

For offense, I seriously have trouble seeing a hobbit wielding a morning star or something similar .

I'd imagine it like so:
Hobbit Warrior: Unarmored hobbit, perhaps Mithadan's farming scythe could work here)
Hobbit Infantry: A lightly armored hobbit with a dagger
Hobbit Adventurer: Don't need - Kindred Scout
Bounder: Don't need - Kindred Swordsman

 

[aaglo]

ow, 6 hobbits... (or is that shirrif-archer 7th?)

well - thanks, Pacific

question - would any of those carry a shield?

 

[PCHighway]

Hey Aaglo, you don't need to do all those units! Mrtn has taught me how to shrink units and stuff. The most important thing would probably be some defense units, I can shrink Mannish sword units, and they would blend in nicely with Kindred72's units.

 

[Mithadan]

question - would any of those carry a shield?

I dunno what the rest of you guys think, but maybe only the last guy in the defensive line would have a shield? (I don't know if the existing, parallell graphic in the offensive line has a shield or not, though.)

A "warrior" with a scythe? I'd wonder about calling him a "warrior," in that case. A flanged mace isn't half so bad as a morning-star mace, I'd think (but I'd save it for later in the line). It's a lot lighter, for one. A spiked club would do just as well, anyhow. My thought had been something similar (though not in all ways similar, obviously) to Sharkey's men, who if memory serves, seemed to carry primarily stuff like clubs. I don't have a problem associating early "warriors" with "thugs" or similarly armed (though not similarly dispositioned) specialists. (Note to self: re-read the Scouring of the Shire.)

Slings would be cool, just because it would preserve the idea of throwing rocks. But indeed, if Shirriffs were known as archers, then...

I dunno about giving a "Levy" a pitchfork. Militia, sure, these are guys just hastily assembled in the face of a threat. I'd expect unmodified farm implements there. But a levy implies some sort of organised, anticipated military call-up. It's not like a levy is a guy who thinks "oh sh*t, someone's attacking the village! Quick, I'll run to the barn and grab something pointy!" A levy is rather a guy who thinks "oh sh*t, cannon-fodder duty again. I guess I'd better find something that serves decently as a weapon (as best as I can afford), else I'm liable not to come home." Which suggests to my mind, at least a modified farm implement, like a billhook (if not something further specialised).

 

[aaglo]

Ok, I'll work on the defensive halflings then (and give a shield to the 4th and maybe 3rd halfling).

How about a flail instead of pitchfork (because pitchfork would be so obvious and dull choise)? Save that if I could animate a flail (that could be tricky to animate)...

 

[Mithadan]

A nice, long threshing flail would be cool with me.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I don't like the thought of hobbits with maces, clubs, or morningstars. Not the sort of weapon I'd chose for fighting people twice my height.

A threshing flail is OK; it's not the sort of weapon you chose for it's functional efficacy anyway, and it's got a better reach.

 

[[Ant]Wimp]

I agree with PCH on the hobbit infantry, though IMO the Hobbit infantry doesnt need to have armor at all. Even the dagger sounds a little too 'military' & 'un-hobbitlike' to me (I like the idea of farming equipment used as weapons. Fork, scythes or sickles (it it sickle in english???) or a (blacksmith's)hammer?)

 

[aaglo]

how about a butchers cleaver ?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Please not.

 

[Greenlocke]

When did the hobbits ever muster regular infantry? Besides the 'scouring', weren't all hobbit solders missile units? What about something along these lines?

Defence:

Hobbit Militia: Hobbit with a pichfork/farm implement
Hobbit Levy: Hobbit with a staff
Hobbit Guard: Hobbit with a spear
Smial Guardian: Metal-Armored hobbit with a spear

Offence:

Hobbit Warrior: Hobbit with dagger
Hobbit Infantry: Thug-hobbit with club-style weapon.
Hobbit Adventurer: Kindred Scout Unit
Bounder: Kindred Swordsman Unit

Missile:

Missile Line: Slinger (Although I can't remember any slingers mentioned in the books.)
Shire-Reeve: Archer Unit
Shirriff: Armoured Archer Unit? Perhaps taller?

Personally, I would rather see no infantry whatsoever. Only defensive spear units, missile units, and the adventure units/bounders. If they are to have infantry (sword/club style) it should come as part of a wonder. Is there any precedence for swords/clubs besides in the 3rd age under saruman?

 

[Hamah]

I can´t remember any slingers too, most of them were archers and some of them with forks and staffs and spears is not a bad idea.

 

[The Last Conformist]

When did the hobbits ever muster regular infantry?

Never, probably. Their small stature would've been a big disadvantage in close combat, and they're not noted for fighting wars.

But for game-play purposes, we need a Hobbit war machine, and having everything with bows would be boring beyond being bearable. Also, a while a Hobbit war machine is fairly ridiculous in itself, any sort of war machines consisting solely of archers on foot would be ridiculous in a medieval setting too.

 

[Greenlocke]

But for game-play purposes, we need a Hobbit war machine, and having everything with bows would be boring beyond being bearable. Also, a while a Hobbit war machine is fairly ridiculous in itself, any sort of war machines consisting solely of archers on foot would be ridiculous in a medieval setting too.

This relates to an unanswered question from the previous board. Does LOTR realism take precedence over gameplay or vice-versa? Personally, I would much rather see the hobbits limited in offensive units (sword-types) and be forced to adopt 'hobbit' strategies. Some gameplay issues obviously force us to misrepresent the LOTR world, but this is one case where I think we should opt for accuracy. There must be other ways to power the hobbit 'war machine'. How about some invisible units? Why not give the hobbit 'war machine' the advantages it would have actually possessed? Namely, mobility and secrecy. What does everyone else think?

 

[The Last Conformist]

It's a little late doing anything radical with unit lines now, I think. We had a discussion of hobbit units in one of the older threads; you may want to look for it.

One point worth keeping in mind is that the AI generally doesn't handle unorthodox unit setups well.

 

[tjedge1]

I like that idea about the rock slinging hobbits upgrading to bows and so on. Especially since aaglo seems to be having fun with rocks lately.

EDIT: We have already debated the hobbit lines with accuracy over gameplay. To make a long story short, the gameplay won out mostly, I think with the hobbits offense not being overly powerful. If I recall correctly.

 

[The Last Conformist]

As regards the general question of M-e realism vs gameplay, the general line is that gameplay comes first. We do not want to introduce anything that can be horribly abused, or that the AI won't grok, no matter of tollkienesquely appropriate it is. In short, we want to have as much realism as possible while retaining good gameplay, but no more.

I'm unsure about the notion that hobbits would've enjoyed any advantage of mobility. Those short legs were hardly made for marching, and they only rode ponies. Stealth units bring a whole lot of problems from the gameplay PoV.

 

[AlcTrv]

*is still pushing for the first in the hobbit missile line to be throwing rocks*

but they did send archers to aid the king of arnor... isn't that the only time it mentioned organized military?

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

There was also the Bullroarer who with the help of Gandalf and an army of hobbits fought off an invasion of wolves or something.

 

[Plotinus]

I'm unsure about the notion that hobbits would've enjoyed any advantage of mobility. Those short legs were hardly made for marching, and they only rode ponies. Stealth units bring a whole lot of problems from the gameplay PoV.

I believe it's stated that Hobbits as a rule cannot march more than eight leagues in a day, which is pretty feeble really.

However, it's good that the point is made that all of this has been debated and settled a long time ago. The only question really is precisely what these different units look like, and I think that it's best if PCHighway give a final verdict so that Aaglo knows what he's doing! It's great that he made the offer. I'm sure the results won't disappoint.