[BTS] Middle-earth Mod 0.4.1

[topsecret]

There are lots of civilizations that I could choose, and especially if I limit myself to 18, then I'm pretty much going to stick with what I have.

That's not because I don't value others' opinions, but because EVERYONE has an idea of which civs should be included, how they should represented, how they should be named...

So on civs, I'm pretty much set on what I have (with one or two possible exceptions), unless I expand past 18. I am, however, planning on adding a Hobbit civ, so no worries.

And I would love to see people simply mod what I've done to make it like they want it. It's great to see what other people think. I appreciate the advice. Thank you.

 

[Mousey_Commander]

I would suggest the following Civilizations for a Middle-Earth MOD:

• Elves could be bundled in three main Civs, according to different Elven cultures, rather than realms:
  
  Noldor - High Elves (including Lindon, Eregion, Rivendell)
  Sindar - Grey Elves (including Lothlorien)
  Nandor - Green Elves (including Greenwood)
  
  
• Dwarves
  
  
• Hobbit deserves to constitute a standalone Civ, mainly based on growth, trade and culture.
  
  
• As for Men, in Third Age, other than Arnor, Gondor and Rohan, Dale should be renamed Rhovanion, as to include all the Northmen (except the Eotheod).
  
  Gwathuirim (Men of Shadow) could represent not only Dunlendings, but also the Dark Men of the White Mountains and other akin peoples living in the West of the Middle-Earth. Easterlings and Southrons represents the other two main Mannish groups in the East and in the South, whereas Umbar should constitute a Civilization, with a focus on its (Black) Numenorean heritage and its seafaring and piracy activity.
  
  
• Evil Civilizations should incluse Mordor, Isengard, Angmar and the Goblins, that is the Orcs of the Misty Mountains, who have been long active in the Third Age as proxies and vassals of Mordor.
  
  
• If you want to include also the First and the Second Age, the missing civilizations are Numenor, Angband and the Edain (representing the three Houses of Men in Beleriand, as well as Edainic tribes in Eriador in the Second Age).

I agree with you on the hobbits and renaming Dale to Rhovanion, even including lake-town under Dale doesn't properly represent the region considering the transition from city state to kingdom happened so late in the lore.

But I think with the elves and other civs you're too focused on dropping the number of civs, even though many are technically the same culture, regional differences are still important from both a culture and gameplay standpoint. A civ with both Lindon and Rivendell on a map this big would be too weak, and for single city starts it leaves several expanses of land empty.

 

[euskingc]

Well, I'm back for the winter, and very impressed with the progress you've made since our discussions! I'll be working on the Dagor Bragollach scenario again, and I have to be frank, if you don't mind I'd like to pillage a lot of your work for it. If you're amenable to that, then you've actually saved me a great deal of time.

Just downloading your mod now, so for Bragollach work tonight I think I'll concentrate on research by giving your mod a playthrough =)

 

[topsecret]

Heads up, the mod was seriously delayed because I got a job. That and school take up lots of time, so I can't be modding. However, I will get the mod finished... if I ever have free time again.

 

[euskingc]

If I ever finish Dagor Bragollach I'd like to help =)

As you well know, I have mountains of work though.

*Edit*

I'll be needing some non uruk-hai orcs and I'm not really happy with any of the ones I've seen out there so far... they just don't seem dark or malicious enough. Once I have all the other units added in I'll be looking to learn to reskin existing ones. I like code, I'm not an art guy, but if you are busy with school and work and what not I'm not opposed to giving it a shot. If I do a reasonable job feel free to make use of them. I saw you were working on mordor orcs when everything kind of got sidelined. Maybe this is one of the things we're needing done in common for our two mods, and I'm not opposed to doing the grunt work on this once I figure out what I'm doing.
Your thoughts on this? Any advice?

Also had some thoughts to add to the discussion on religion. To broaden things up a bit, even though there's only Theme of Illuvatar and ... I forget what I called the other one in my mod, something or other for morgoth... what I'm thinking of doing is a civics category that lets you choose to focus on one or other Valar, call it devotion category or something.
That way elves can have traits that fall in line with their love of Elbereth, or Yavanna, and dwarves can dedicate themselves to Aule. Those with the Melkor religion can of course only choose the civic that focuses on Melkor, and the Illuvatar worshippers can of course not dedicate themselves to Melkor.
Another way might be exclusive buildings, if not calling them temples outright... but something that if you build the one associate with Yavanna in that city, you can't build the one associated with Aule or Mandos or whoever.


Rings of power: have you thought of having an opposite of wastelands ... e.g. like Rivendell or Lorien or Aman, that can be obtained through several ways, one of which being through the use of an elven ring of power? Could eventually make it so these create a 'building' in the city when the spell is cast a la FFH2 (think inspiration spell or hope), which changes nearby terrain like the temple of the illians, but that sacred terrain tends to revert back to normal slowly over time (certain % chance per turn) if the caster leaves the city and the spell thus ceases. This could simulate how Lorien just kind of became normal years after Galadriel left with the ring of power.
As for Aman, if you ever do a Valar civ, you could just make it so inside their cultural borders things always go sacred.


If you're not having time to work at this, are you opposed to putting up a list of what you need done and if any volunteers want to take a crack it, they can feel free? If I see a lot more things in common with my own to-do list, I might be persuaded to start with those things.
A mod is a lot of work for one person to do alone, and I think people like the direction you're going with this, and it's broad enough to be used as a good starting point for a lot more specific visions. I for one would like to see a war of the rings scenario made with it. Or a rise of numenor scenario.

But this Mod you're making is way overdue. And it's so far along now already. And to make it for civ5... well... civ5 just isn't as good a game as 4 =)

 

[derflensburger]

As being a great fan of Tolkien's books I've been looking forward to a playable Middleearth-MOD for years. I still can't believe, why noone ever attempted one after the ARDA-MOD was dead.

I'll read way more of this thread soon and will comment on gameplay thoughts and "realism" in terms of Tolkien's ideas (actually I see it that way).

I cannot really help you with actually making the mod but feel free to ask... and feel free to ignore my thoughts...;-)

 

[euskingc]

Aloha derflensburger!

The boss may be a bit busy with real life at the moment, nevertheless, if all parties are amenable, I am hoping to assist with the project once I get much farther along with my own. I wouldn't mind seeing a few scenarios produced for it as well... say... war of the rings, rise/fall of numenor, that sort of thing.
I'm working on a Silmarillion mod at the moment, and hope to have a version 0.1 ready to release in a few weeks, including a remake of the old Dagor Bragollach scenario for Civ2.

Even if not much is being done at the moment, what has been is still very playable and wonderful, and for the time being if no one else has time to, I may steal your ideas myself for my own work, so please, post away! And don't worry topsecret, I'll stop sponging off of yours and post up my own thread soon enough hee hee =) =)

 

[topsecret]

As being a great fan of Tolkien's books I've been looking forward to a playable Middleearth-MOD for years. I still can't believe, why noone ever attempted one after the ARDA-MOD was dead.

I'll read way more of this thread soon and will comment on gameplay thoughts and "realism" in terms of Tolkien's ideas (actually I see it that way).

I cannot really help you with actually making the mod but feel free to ask... and feel free to ignore my thoughts...;-)

I'll take all the ideas I can get! There's been some I haven't included, but that's the good news about modding: Anyone can change things so it's made the way they want it.

And don't worry topsecret, I'll stop sponging off of yours and post up my own thread soon enough hee hee =) =)

No worries! I'm very sad that I don't have as much time as I'd like. Summer promises a bit more time without school, so even with work I may get some modding done! And yes, I am aiming for a War of the Ring scenario.

 

[euskingc]

Can I ask a quick question? How did you get mordor to have +2 food in the wasteland? I see the <extraterrainyields> in traitinfos.xml... but beyond that I have no idea what you did.

*Edit*
Scratch that, I think I found it.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15737
I followed some tracks, and they led me here. Is that indeed how you did it?

 

[topsecret]

Can I ask a quick question? How did you get mordor to have +2 food in the wasteland? I see the <extraterrainyields> in traitinfos.xml... but beyond that I have no idea what you did.

*Edit*
Scratch that, I think I found it.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15737
I followed some tracks, and they led me here. Is that indeed how you did it?

Yes. You got it. Asaf's DLL includes lots of handy tags, a better AI, and a system for making ethnic buildings when I get to that point.

 

[derflensburger]

I finally found enough time to look into this interesting mod.

Looks good so far, a lot to be done left, I suppose.

Question: is there any working scenario anyone has made for this?

 

[need my speed]

I finally found enough time to look into this interesting mod.

Looks good so far, a lot to be done left, I suppose.

Question: is there any working scenario anyone has made for this?

I have tried to do so, and I remember having a map for Civilization III of Lord of the Rings cities years ago, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Which is pretty sad.

EDIT: And just like that, I find them. I'll try to make something nice.

 

[need my speed]

Mhm, it's probably my lack of knowledge, but I do have some problems with properly placing cities, as the map seems to be wrong at certain spots. For example, the whole area around Sarn Ford, Rhudaur, and Annúminas seems to be too large?

Anyway, I would say I'm done with Mordor, Gondor, Rohan, and Isengard, and have started working on Arnor and a few Elven, Easterling, and Dwarven places I came across. I've occasionally sacrificed precise accuracy for better city placement; I dislike putting cities on top of resources or one spot away from the coast.

That is, city placement; I haven't touched roads, units, buildings, or map visibility.

But, really, I am not at all knowledgeable at this, so correct me, if you like.

 

[topsecret]

Mhm, it's probably my lack of knowledge, but I do have some problems with properly placing cities, as the map seems to be wrong at certain spots. For example, the whole area around Sarn Ford, Rhudaur, and Annúminas seems to be too large?

Anyway, I would say I'm done with Mordor, Gondor, Rohan, and Isengard, and have started working on Arnor and a few Elven, Easterling, and Dwarven places I came across. I've occasionally sacrificed precise accuracy for better city placement; I dislike putting cities on top of resources or one spot away from the coast.

That is, city placement; I haven't touched roads, units, buildings, or map visibility.

But, really, I am not at all knowledgeable at this, so correct me, if you like.

I'm working on a much more accurate map. Unfortunately, I'm also trying to hold down a job and do school at the same time.

 

[need my speed]

Oh, that would be nice, I won't work on that map in that case. And hey, a job and school are way more important! We'll wait, take your time (any idea when this map will be released? )!

 

[need my speed]

Oh, if you need maps for references, I have a few.

 

[need my speed]

Well, you aren't confined to Civilization; for example, here.

 

[derflensburger]

I have played around with the existing map for a while and found it fun to play.

But:
To create scenarios I would like to have more options especially concerning Civs and Leaderheads.

1) I'd like to have more than one Leaderhead for large/widespread Civs, like Dwarves, Haradrim (northerly/southerly). This way you could split the civs to cover more area without splitting one civ (negative for cash flow...;-).

2) More Civs, like Variags, Easterlings, Dorwinrim, Lossoth, People of Eriador (kind of basic humans, stats and UUs and UBs might be rather basic as well, maybe even none) with a couple of leaderheads, Corsairs...

Additionally, the map (i.e. scenario setting) coming with the mod is rather strict with decisions on customizing the scenario upon setup.

I know this means work, which I actually can't amke, simply because I'm not that deep into modding, but it would be a great leap forward in making this great mod more useable for different kinds of settings.

Please feel free to ask for help concerning background information or ideas, however I can't really help modding.

 

[need my speed]

Well, this mod has inspired me to make my own Middle-Earth civilisations, so there's that (currently I have Mordor, Isengard, and Angmar in-game, and I actually just quit a game as Sauron).

I would suggest splitting Umbar and Haradrim, now that you mention it. But city lists and unique buildings are kind of hard to think up - how did you even get the Toy Market idea for Dale?

And, concerning city lists, feel free to ask the list I made for Mordor, Isengard, and Angmar. Although Isengard only has a dozen or so, if that (on the other hand, Angmar has 60 or so, and Mordor probably 50 or more).

 

[topsecret]

I have played around with the existing map for a while and found it fun to play.

But:
To create scenarios I would like to have more options especially concerning Civs and Leaderheads.

1) I'd like to have more than one Leaderhead for large/widespread Civs, like Dwarves, Haradrim (northerly/southerly). This way you could split the civs to cover more area without splitting one civ (negative for cash flow...;-).

2) More Civs, like Variags, Easterlings, Dorwinrim, Lossoth, People of Eriador (kind of basic humans, stats and UUs and UBs might be rather basic as well, maybe even none) with a couple of leaderheads, Corsairs...

Additionally, the map (i.e. scenario setting) coming with the mod is rather strict with decisions on customizing the scenario upon setup.

I know this means work, which I actually can't amke, simply because I'm not that deep into modding, but it would be a great leap forward in making this great mod more useable for different kinds of settings.

Please feel free to ask for help concerning background information or ideas, however I can't really help modding.

Well, I don't have much time right now, but I am working on it. More updates will come once I can get the tech research rate balanced (which is a nightmare).

As soon as I get some more time on my hands (Read: Summer), then I will definitely be needing ideas. Also, extra leaders/civs can be easily made once I get everything worked out.

Well, this mod has inspired me to make my own Middle-Earth civilisations, so there's that (currently I have Mordor, Isengard, and Angmar in-game, and I actually just quit a game as Sauron).

I would suggest splitting Umbar and Haradrim, now that you mention it. But city lists and unique buildings are kind of hard to think up - how did you even get the Toy Market idea for Dale?

And, concerning city lists, feel free to ask the list I made for Mordor, Isengard, and Angmar. Although Isengard only has a dozen or so, if that (on the other hand, Angmar has 60 or so, and Mordor probably 50 or more).

The Toy Market came from the world renowned legend of toys from Dale- and suddenly it just came to me.

As I said, summer will be a great boost in this mod's update speed.