Might Karl Rove go to jail?

eyrei said:
If Rove did leak this name, it will probably take a Presidental pardon to keep him out of jail. I'm sure Bush would be quite willing, but Rove himself might advise against it. ;)

Why would Rove advise against it? Bush isn't up for reelection any more. His approval rating can be 15% as long as the Republicans control the House and Senate.
 
Cuivienen said:
Why would Rove advise against it? Bush isn't up for reelection any more. His approval rating can be 15% as long as the Republicans control the House and Senate.
Because if the GOP president screws up, all those that supported him will get more pressure when its their time to get the boot.
 
Eyrei, you really need to get hold of yourself. If there was anything to these rumors, they would've come out before the 2004 election. :sleep:
 
No wonder I heard wolves howling in CFC, someone spoke his name :eek: (American Dad Referance). ;)
 
No lawyer is crazy enough to sacrifice his career on the off chance Karl Rove could be convicted. Nobody in Washington can lay a finger on Teflon Rove, and its going to be YEARS before his nature is publicly known.

He has the makings of a Henry Kissinger.
 
DBear said:
Eyrei, you really need to get hold of yourself. If there was anything to these rumors, they would've come out before the 2004 election. :sleep:

Kinda like calling of the search of WMD after the election.
 
Not being terribly familiar with this case, why did Bob Novak go free while Judith Miller is in jail? I understand she's in jail for not revealing her source, but neither did Novak, did he?
 
Padma said:
If Rove *did* leak the name, he should go to jail. If he *didn't*, he should not. Simple.

No one should go to jail, especially for something like that. Everyone knew that she was a CIA agent anyway before Novak published the story. It's also questionable whether she was truly "undercover" or not (especially since everyone in the know seemed to know she was an agent anyway). And it's been reported that the prosecutor is NOT prosecuting anyone for leaking any name and instead that the investigation has morphed into a perjury investigation (similiar to how White Water morphed into a perjury/obstruction of justice investigation or how Martha Stewart was convicted NOT of insider trading but of lying to investigators -- which is one of many reasons it was really stupid for her to be sent to jail)

People who say that Novak should go to jail are off their rocker. Novak committed no crime by publishing the story. The reason the two other reporters were threatened with jail was not because they published anything but because they refused to testify in the grand jury (apparently now dealing with perjury) investigation -- which is also very stupid ... reporters should never have to reveal their sources ... this is basically a kind of Inquisition because the government is inflicting pain/discomfort/imprisonment on someone to try to get her to violate her conscience or to coerce her into acting in a certain way ... it's similiar to torture in that respect.

Novak hasn't made any comment about whether he has testified or not. Some speculate that he has cooperated and testified. Others speculate that he took the 5th Amendment and refused to testify. Novak has said that his lawyer instructed him not to make any comments ... which leads me to think that he took the 5th Amendment (probably mostly to protect his sources ... if he takes the 5th he doesn't have to reveal his sources while avoiding jail for refusing to testify at the same time ... unfortunately Judith can't take the 5th)
 
ironduck said:
Not being terribly familiar with this case, why did Bob Novak go free while Judith Miller is in jail? I understand she's in jail for not revealing her source, but neither did Novak, did he?

We dont' know whether Novak did or not. He hasn't said and has said his lawyer told him not to say anything. He may have cooperated or he may have taken the 5th Amendment (and you can't go to jail for taking the 5th)
 
ironduck said:
Not being terribly familiar with this case, why did Bob Novak go free while Judith Miller is in jail? I understand she's in jail for not revealing her source, but neither did Novak, did he?
I actually believe he did already and it's not being disclosed just yet.
 
cierdan said:
No one should go to jail, especially for something like that. Everyone knew that she was a CIA agent anyway before Novak published the story. It's also questionable whether she was truly "undercover" or not (especially since everyone in the know seemed to know she was an agent anyway). And it's been reported that the prosecutor is NOT prosecuting anyone for leaking any name and instead that the investigation has morphed into a perjury investigation (similiar to how White Water morphed into a perjury/obstruction of justice investigation or how Martha Stewart was convicted NOT of insider trading but of lying to investigators -- which is one of many reasons it was really stupid for her to be sent to jail)

People who say that Novak should go to jail are off their rocker. Novak committed no crime by publishing the story. The reason the two other reporters were threatened with jail was not because they published anything but because they refused to testify in the grand jury (apparently now dealing with perjury) investigation -- which is also very stupid ... reporters should never have to reveal their sources ... this is basically a kind of Inquisition because the government is inflicting pain/discomfort/imprisonment on someone to try to get her to violate her conscience or to coerce her into acting in a certain way ... it's similiar to torture in that respect.

Novak hasn't made any comment about whether he has testified or not. Some speculate that he has cooperated and testified. Others speculate that he took the 5th Amendment and refused to testify. Novak has said that his lawyer instructed him not to make any comments ... which leads me to think that he took the 5th Amendment (probably mostly to protect his sources ... if he takes the 5th he doesn't have to reveal his sources while avoiding jail for refusing to testify at the same time ... unfortunately Judith can't take the 5th)
You do not know who is undercover. You do not know which businesses are real and which aren't. Without a leak, you do not know anything.
 
Could an American versed in these matters clear something up for me? I read somewhere that revealing a CIA agent's identity counts as high treason in time of war - is that true?
 
zulu9812 said:
Could an American versed in these matters clear something up for me? I read somewhere that revealing a CIA agent's identity counts as high treason in time of war - is that true?
As far as I know it is.
 
Treason is actively working against your country by the treason act of the United States. Actively making war or directly giving aid to an entity involved in a war against the US is the only thing that can get you convicted of treason.

It also must be confirmed in exact terms by 2 direct witnesses. It is VERY difficult to be convicted of treason, as it was designed to be a fixture of english treason act abuses.
 
Romanfe said:
Treason is actively working against your country by the treason act of the United States. Actively making war or directly giving aid to an entity involved in a war against the US is the only thing that can get you convicted of treason.

It also must be confirmed in exact terms by 2 direct witnesses. It is VERY difficult to be convicted of treason, as it was designed to be a fixture of english treason act abuses.
Revealing a CIA agent and business overseas in war is treasonous.
 
oops 10 10 10
 
Azadre said:
You do not know who is undercover. You do not know which businesses are real and which aren't. Without a leak, you do not know anything.

It's doubtful that she was truly undercover or truly undercover at the time the story was published. People knew she was a CIA agent even before the story was published. It was "common knowledge" among Washington elite.

Undercover or not is more like a SPECTRUM. She was a wife and mother. It's not like she was at that time a James Bond style secret agent.

I found this on the web:

Frywesty posts, “I don't have a lot of confidence or trust in an administration that would leak a CIA operative's identity to the press to enact revenge on her husband for criticizing the Bush administration's Iraq policy”

Good thing I read quite a bit or I might have fallen for the media’s hysteria over the big “leak”, too. For all the danger and retribution that might have befallen outed operative Valerie Plame, it should be noted that she and her husband Joseph Wilson were able to set aside their fears and submit to a lengthy Vanity Fair piece promoting their take on this uncomfortable but probably profitable predicament, including a two-page color photo of the two of them (just in case al queda wasn't sure what she looked like, I suppose). But what I find most alarming is their description of the beginning of their romance - when they were both married to other people, naturally. It seems that on their third or fourth date, in the middle of a “heavy make-out session”, Plame told Wilson she was undercover in the CIA.

And there we have it. Our "asset", a trained and experienced operative, giving it up to some adulterous political hack on their third or fourth date during a make-out session. Is there any possibility whatsoever that this kind of disclosure falls within the code of conduct and strict agency rules regarding revelation of identity and occupation for an undercover operative? No, of course not! Moreover, this passion-activated revelation had almost certainly peeked out from under the covers prior to this incident. The fact that these two self-indulgent fools eventually left their spouses and married does nothing to minimize the probability that this was not the first time Plame violated her oath and duty. What a pathetic face Plame puts on all of our truly undercover operatives, who toil in disciplined obscurity to make us safe.

If she told her lover on the 3rd or 4th date that she was a CIA agent, she can't really be that undercover.
 
cierdan said:
It's doubtful that she was truly undercover or truly undercover at the time the story was published. People knew she was a CIA agent even before the story was published. It was "common knowledge" among Washington elite.

Undercover or not is more like a SPECTRUM. She was a wife and mother. It's not like she was at that time a James Bond style secret agent.

I found this on the web:



If she told her lover on the 3rd or 4th date that she was a CIA agent, she can't really be that undercover.
Curiously, you do not give away a source. Also, Washington elites do not know who are undercover agents. Spooks who are uncovered do not remain effective.
 
Azadre said:
Revealing a CIA agent and business overseas in war is treasonous.
doesnt matter, accusations don't matter, its who actually gets convicted. and this isnt something rove or novak could ever possibly be convicted of, especially rove who, if you hadnt noticed, has some friends in low places.
 
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