We cannot build pikemen in any city connected to the trade network.
The military department now has 300 gold to use for upgrades. Enough for probably 3 more will be allocated after the next turns.
Military Dept. - Term 2
- Thread starter Falcon02
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We cannot build pikemen in any city connected to the trade network.
The military department now has 300 gold to use for upgrades. Enough for probably 3 more will be allocated after the next turns.
punkbass2000
Des An artiste
Then I propose we cut the link. What do we need Saltpeter for if not musketmen, until Cavalry. In fact, perhaps we could sell the Saltpeter to another civ. Many are against selling strategic resources, but if at this point it would only cause them to have a disadvantage, I think it would be worth it.
Eklektikos
Eponymous
Well... there is the fact that two pikemen cost twice as much to maintain as a single musketeer...
I cant really see much advantage in mass producing obsolete units, paying twice the upkeep, especially if we have to disconnect cities to do it! I think we should purposefully modernise our military, and be prepared to instantly support the FA and Cultural campaigns.
punkbass2000
Des An artiste
True. However, our military will be seen as twice as strong by the AI. Also, our military will be stronger, perhaps not twice as strong, but we will save time too. I think the costs outweigh the benefits.
Shaitan
der Besucher
This is my least favorite upgrade/build as well. Muskets are only 50% better than pikes but cost 100% more. Unfortunately, it's a price that's eventually going to have to be paid. The cost difference from pike to musket is still there when you go pike to rifleman so it doesn't make financial sense to build pikes now unless we do not intend to upgrade them in the future.
punkbass2000
Des An artiste
I wouldn't call them 50% better, but that's beside the point. However, I do think Shaitan makes a valid point about building pikes, in that they will eventually have to upgraded. I now propose that we build musketmen, but do not upgrade our pikes until nationalism, as the overall cost will not change.
Falcon02
General
Sorry Punkbass, last turn chat I upgraded 5 Muskets for 300g, and distributed them among the Egyptian eastern boarder cities.
War with the Aztecs - we should workshop some options here.
FA is hosting a discussion about this war, and it seems there is a view building that we should attempt to negotiate a peace deal with the Aztecs. If this eventuates, then I guess we will not need to consider the options, and we can just get on with modernising units and deploying them in the most favourable strategic positions.
But if the war persists, who has some ideas about its prosecution?
FA is hosting a discussion about this war, and it seems there is a view building that we should attempt to negotiate a peace deal with the Aztecs. If this eventuates, then I guess we will not need to consider the options, and we can just get on with modernising units and deploying them in the most favourable strategic positions.
But if the war persists, who has some ideas about its prosecution?
Shaitan
der Besucher
Falcon02, please cast your vote in the Cabinet Poll for adoption of Constitution changes.
Here are some military options for consideration:
The first thing is that if we are going to use our present Great Leader to rush a wonder (and it seems the popular consensus is that it should be JSB's Cathedral, and located in a city in the central south ie. perhaps Justinian or Macao), then the Wonder rush should be done immediately at the start of turn 0. This is because we are able to attack at least one of the two Aztec close contact units near Justinian with elite units and there is a chance of generating another GL. So - first up we should rush the wonder (if we are to do it at all), then smack that swordsman near Justinian and hope for the best.
More generally, it also seems that the popular consensus is for a quick peace with the Aztecs. I strongly support this goal, because there is little value in stretching this war out and we should try to avoid escalation and the involvement of other powers. However, I really do think we should try to eliminate the 2 close contact units (as outlined above). If Peace is achieved within the first 2 or 3 turns, then my recommendation 5 is redundant, and recommendation 5B is substituted. Recommendation 1-4 are submitted regardless of the Aztec hostilities.
1. Galleys near Lutetia - let them either attack us or retire. We should not attack because (despite co-rated att/def values) it see,s gallies always do better in defence in 1 on 1 battles. Why? - I don't know. I also note that ships can fortify at sea (not sure if our galley in fortified or not) - we might as well do this, although I'm unsure whether it makes any difference to defence values.
2. Boost Lutetia garrison - we can transfer 1 Musket from Eyr and also 1 Musket from Fox Nest. When the first Musket arrives then transfer the Pike in Lutetia back to Fox Nest for upgrading to Musket. The result is 2 Muskets in Lutetia and Fox Nest each and 1 Musket in Eyr - a much better defensive deployment. We could, do 3 in Lutetia and 1 in each of the other 2 cities (by putting the upgraded Pike/Musket from Fox Nest back in Lutetia) but I prefer to leave a reserve in Fox Nest for contingencies and capital defence.
3. Move the Catapults - at the moment there are 2 catapults in El Armana and Civanatoria and these locations are not really exploiting the value of these units effectively. I think we should transfer both to Abydos, Memphis or Thebes where they are closer to the borders and/or can provide Forbidden City protection. Obviously 2 catapults cannot go into 3 cities, so we just need to choose which 2 (of the 3 candidates) is the best location.
4. Army near Tlaxcala - should be relocated to Heliopolis, which is well positioned to stike or defend from. We can then transfer 1 Immortal from Heliopolis to Alexandria.
5. Justinian forces - First deal with 2 Aztec close contact units. Then begin to assemble an expeditionary force to assault Xochicalco. Here's how it goes. We can put a force of 10-12 units (at least 4 of them elite) in the field within 2 - 3 turns. This will require the Knight near Asyut, the 2 Immortals in the field SW of Cumae and all the forces actually inside Justinian except the Musket and the regular Pike. It will take 2-3 turns to eliminate the close contacts, heal presently injured units and muster. The muster point should be 2 tiles SSW of Justinian (presently occupied by the Aztec swordsman). The proceed thru Greece, avoiding Babylon and giving Corinth a wide berth, SW to Xochicalco.
NB. If Plan 5 proceeds there will be a strong need to bolster the Justinian garrison - we could just rush a Musket (cost would be about 190 gold!) and/or relocate a defender from Macao. The situation can be further plugged with some new Knights which are due for completion over the subsequent turns (Fox Nest starts this in 1 turn, followed by some more). Defensive deployment will also have to take account of the location of JSB's Cathedral (if rushed).
5B - Peace with Aztecs in 2/3 turns - Justinian forces simply need to be partially dispersed and garrisoned. We should keep strong units there, and in Macao, but if JSB's Cathedral is located in one of these cities then this city should be our HQ.
The first thing is that if we are going to use our present Great Leader to rush a wonder (and it seems the popular consensus is that it should be JSB's Cathedral, and located in a city in the central south ie. perhaps Justinian or Macao), then the Wonder rush should be done immediately at the start of turn 0. This is because we are able to attack at least one of the two Aztec close contact units near Justinian with elite units and there is a chance of generating another GL. So - first up we should rush the wonder (if we are to do it at all), then smack that swordsman near Justinian and hope for the best.
More generally, it also seems that the popular consensus is for a quick peace with the Aztecs. I strongly support this goal, because there is little value in stretching this war out and we should try to avoid escalation and the involvement of other powers. However, I really do think we should try to eliminate the 2 close contact units (as outlined above). If Peace is achieved within the first 2 or 3 turns, then my recommendation 5 is redundant, and recommendation 5B is substituted. Recommendation 1-4 are submitted regardless of the Aztec hostilities.
1. Galleys near Lutetia - let them either attack us or retire. We should not attack because (despite co-rated att/def values) it see,s gallies always do better in defence in 1 on 1 battles. Why? - I don't know. I also note that ships can fortify at sea (not sure if our galley in fortified or not) - we might as well do this, although I'm unsure whether it makes any difference to defence values.
2. Boost Lutetia garrison - we can transfer 1 Musket from Eyr and also 1 Musket from Fox Nest. When the first Musket arrives then transfer the Pike in Lutetia back to Fox Nest for upgrading to Musket. The result is 2 Muskets in Lutetia and Fox Nest each and 1 Musket in Eyr - a much better defensive deployment. We could, do 3 in Lutetia and 1 in each of the other 2 cities (by putting the upgraded Pike/Musket from Fox Nest back in Lutetia) but I prefer to leave a reserve in Fox Nest for contingencies and capital defence.
3. Move the Catapults - at the moment there are 2 catapults in El Armana and Civanatoria and these locations are not really exploiting the value of these units effectively. I think we should transfer both to Abydos, Memphis or Thebes where they are closer to the borders and/or can provide Forbidden City protection. Obviously 2 catapults cannot go into 3 cities, so we just need to choose which 2 (of the 3 candidates) is the best location.
4. Army near Tlaxcala - should be relocated to Heliopolis, which is well positioned to stike or defend from. We can then transfer 1 Immortal from Heliopolis to Alexandria.
5. Justinian forces - First deal with 2 Aztec close contact units. Then begin to assemble an expeditionary force to assault Xochicalco. Here's how it goes. We can put a force of 10-12 units (at least 4 of them elite) in the field within 2 - 3 turns. This will require the Knight near Asyut, the 2 Immortals in the field SW of Cumae and all the forces actually inside Justinian except the Musket and the regular Pike. It will take 2-3 turns to eliminate the close contacts, heal presently injured units and muster. The muster point should be 2 tiles SSW of Justinian (presently occupied by the Aztec swordsman). The proceed thru Greece, avoiding Babylon and giving Corinth a wide berth, SW to Xochicalco.
NB. If Plan 5 proceeds there will be a strong need to bolster the Justinian garrison - we could just rush a Musket (cost would be about 190 gold!) and/or relocate a defender from Macao. The situation can be further plugged with some new Knights which are due for completion over the subsequent turns (Fox Nest starts this in 1 turn, followed by some more). Defensive deployment will also have to take account of the location of JSB's Cathedral (if rushed).
5B - Peace with Aztecs in 2/3 turns - Justinian forces simply need to be partially dispersed and garrisoned. We should keep strong units there, and in Macao, but if JSB's Cathedral is located in one of these cities then this city should be our HQ.
Shaitan
der Besucher
1. Water tiles have a defensive terrain bonus. A 1 defense unit has an advantage over a 1 offense unit due to the defender bonus.
Phoenix
Creating Scenarios
I say that now is the time to modernise our army. We should definetly not build any more pikes. Am I correct in thinking that the ROP with china has now expired? Also we should build more musketers and put at least one in every city and aim for more in the boarder/coastal cities. We should also construct fortresses along all of the roads going into our major cities if it is possible for if war with china comes then we may need a back up plan.
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