Millennia | Announcement

I've never played CTP but that screenshot was my first thought too. Would have liked more details on the plan for combat: this isn't a PDS title so battles need not be relegated to jousting spreadsheets. :p
A combat scene.
This one comes from 'Civilization Call to Power'. I think Sid Meier (or Firaxis) sued the game dev not to use the term 'Civilization' on this game

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^ Autocombat. with simple animated graphics.

this one from Call to Power 2
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^ Same. with better screen resolution.

I've played TWO games before. and it is quite difficult since non combat units are very nasty and difficult to counter.
Lawyer is an example, he can halt players progress on any building or training projects for so many turns and rival lawyer is hard to get rid of.
 
A combat scene.
This one comes from 'Civilization Call to Power'. I think Sid Meier (or Firaxis) sued the game dev not to use the term 'Civilization' on this game

View attachment 673313

^ Autocombat. with simple animated graphics.

this one from Call to Power 2
View attachment 673312

^ Same. with better screen resolution.

I've played TWO games before. and it is quite difficult since non combat units are very nasty and difficult to counter.
Lawyer is an example, he can halt players progress on any building or training projects for so many turns and rival lawyer is hard to get rid of.
The top image is from Civilization: Call to Power. The second image is from Call to Power 2.

The Civilization license has had a long, journeyed life, and at some points looked like being dumped completely.

Sid Meier and Brian Reynalds created Civilization the computer game, and acquired a license from Avalon Hill (the makers of board game Civilization), to create a computer game called "Civilization". This was great, and Civilization 2 came out under the same license deal as the first. Sid Meier and Brian Reynalds then left Microprose, to found Firaxis, and took most of the Civilization talent with them. However, the license remained with Microprose.

Activision then made a deal with Avalon Hill to create a game using the Civilization name, (Civilization: Call to Power). Activision then sued Microprose claiming that the Civilization name was theirs solely since the original deal was with Sid Meier and Brian Reynalds who had left Microprose (Civilization 3 was in very early development at this stage), and the courts found that no, the existing 1991 deal Microprose did with AH negates Activision's deal with AH, so Microprose hold Civilization, not Activision. However, part of the deal was that AH gave a license to Activision to publish their game as Civilization Call to Power, but any sequels could not use the name (hence Call to Power 2).

Hasbro during all this going on, swooped in and bought Avalon Hill and Microprose, thus owning both the rights to physical and digital Civilization games. Hasbro was then bought by Infogrammes, who then contracted none other than Firaxis to finish Civilization 3. Take Two then bought the license of Infogrammes, plus acquired Firaxis, reuniting Sid Meier et al with their original Civilization license. Here is an interesting part, when T2 bought the license from Infogrammes, Civ4 was already in development with Firaxis (again contracted). But it took almost a year for T2 to acquire Firaxis. During that time, Firaxis didn't stop development of Civ4, but for a time there was a VERY REAL possibility that Civ4 would have been named something else.

Anyways, that's the Civilization license journey.
 
^ Hasbro did dabbling with digital gaming industry in 90s but it had to reel in early 2000s. I don't know if Hasbro did return to videogames wulin with their owned companies especially after Transformers hype after 2007 Michael Bay movie.

mmm. And what did Sid Meier do today with Civilization (r)'s franchise? When did he trademarked 'Sid Meier's Civilization' so to draw a clear line for this franchise?
 
If I get it right this game has the idea of racing for the next age and thus define its type for every civ to be in it.

I hope it will be a rule only for civs who are in contact with each other...
So in the first part of the game there could be different groups of civs with different kind of ages to be in...
 
1. IMO spartans should've been replaced by hoplite since it's more generic
2. I love the concept of the ages, the only minus thing is every civ would be forced to use same age, should've been more like dark/golden/heroic age of civ vi, but with bias mechanic of first age being selected so that rest of the civ would need to work harder to have different ages
 
So are we creating our own civilizations or are we still cosplaying in Millennia? The Ottoman and French factions make it seem like it's the latter.

And are the Ottoman Spartans and Khans military units? That suggests a culture mix-and-mash like Humankind but even worse.
 
Next question that comes to mind looking at the illustration is: does your choice of 'Engineering' and type of engineering modify what you can construct? Like, if the game includes Wonders or Massive Civic Projects that would seem like an obvious connection and a good way to make Engineering a more attractive choice . . .

My inclination and what I think makes most sense is that God-King will give you bonuses to Wonders or something of the sort, whereas Mound Builders may be to buildings, speed of improvements, maybe extra charges to builders if they use that or a similar system.
 
If I get it right this game has the idea of racing for the next age and thus define its type for every civ to be in it.

I hope it will be a rule only for civs who are in contact with each other...
So in the first part of the game there could be different groups of civs with different kind of ages to be in...
I love the concept of the ages, the only minus thing is every civ would be forced to use same age, should've been more like dark/golden/heroic age of civ vi, but with bias mechanic of first age being selected so that rest of the civ would need to work harder to have different ages
It's probably one-for-all for the sake of coherent gameplay (consider balancing two factions using divergent rules), but yeah, it would be really neat if you had different regions developing different paradigms. It would be the first time something like the Columbian Exchange could be modelled in the base game, rather than through purpose-built mods.

Lawyer is an example, he can halt players progress on any building or training projects for so many turns and rival lawyer is hard to get rid of.
[A brief history of the Civilization trademark]
Art imitates life. :mischief:
 
Had a look at the screenshots and the Spartans are both a spirit and a military unit.
This is going to confuse.

First, of course, it depends on exactly what they are trying to depict with the term "Spartan". If they mean the militaristic system of education and childhood to adult training and conditioning called the agoge, then the modern equivalent would be the Nazi Hitler Youth or Soviet Young Pioneers and neither one is a good image to invoke. IF, on the other hand, they mean a professional military supported, fed and equipped by the state, then they would be better off using a more generic term like Soldier (which originally meant a man paid - given a solidus coin - for participating in the Roman military, but is now near-universally applied to state-supported troops) rather than a specific term that applies correctly only to one small city state of a single civilization/culture in the Mediterranean.

An older term, but unfortunately one pretty obscure, might be comitatus, the ancient term for the bodyguards of a chief or king, paid and supported by the chief as a professional military force at his disposal. This has a long, long pedigree, being traditionally about 300 men at most and applied to Germanic tribes, the Spartan 'knights' or elite that died with Leonidas at the Hot Gates, the Theban elite Sacred Band, and various Central Asian nomad groups.

But again, it is, I suspect going to be confusing to use the same term for two different in-game things, especially when the word is so specific and one item is a very General 'spirit' that can apply to anybody.
 
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Something like the Columbian Exchange is probably not a good fit for Civ-style games anyways. They are just too simple for it to evolve in a non-scripted manner, even in Colonization or something. I spent a lot of time looking into how to handle it and model colonization in the broader sense and the causes of colonization among other things for my own game. Having a much more detailed simulation *really* helps handle this stuff without abstract and gamey facades like a simpler game would have to use. Paradox games like EU4 for instance *really* blow it and Victoria 3 doesn't handle it well either.
The Columbian Exchange was by far the most comprehensive mingling of Resources known since prehistory, but by far not the only one.
Examples:
The latest issue of Scientific American has a summary of the results of a DNA study done on wine grapes, and it turns out ALL modern wine grapes originally came from the Caucasus (as we already supposed from archeological finds) but also all include enormous mingling of traits from other 'table' (food) grapes as the original wine variety spread across the Middle East, Balkans, France, northern Europe, etc. That means the 'wine grape' was never a simple movement of seeds or cuttings, but a blending process with 'native' varietals that constantly resulted in new types.

Similarly, at the end of the Neolithic there were 4 species of modern Horses in Eurasia, but selective breeding for domesticity meant that all modern horses everywhere today have the genes introduced to a single species 6000 + years ago, and all the modern varieties, from Percheron giants to 14-hand riding horses, are descended from the same originals.

Agricultural plants like Wheat, Millet, Rice, and Maize and Potato were all modified by human action, bred for better results and adaptability to human agricultural methods, so that even though 'wild' wheat already grew in Europe, the first farmers coming up from Anatolia brought their own seeds with them and cross-bred with locals to get both the cultivatability and the adaptation to local weather and soil - and this appears to have happened with nearly every plant everywhere.

So, in game terms, most 'resources' like Horses, Cattle, Sheep, Rice, Wheat, Potato, etc should be moveable or spreadable outside of their original locations - with effort.

In fact, since I believe they've claimed the game represents "10,000 years", it is starting about 4000 years earlier than Civ, around 8000 BCE. At that point, there are no horses outside of northeastern Europe to Mongolia, no domesticated/domesticatable cattle north of the Middle East and India, the British Isles are connected to Europe by land, the Sahara Desert is a savannah, and the Black Sea is about half its present size, just for starters, so the game is going to have to have mechanics for massive terrain/climate changes and associated movement of resources.
 
Art imitates life. :mischief:
Want to know a not-so-well-known secret? Known by a lucky few who were talking with the designers of CCTP over at Apolyton back in those days......

The lawyer unit was added to the CTP series as a "F-You" to Microprose for what happened in the court case. ;)
True story!
 
Well there are very few resources, since it is a civ game, and most civ games don't represent resources very effectively. You have spawns on map gen and that is it. Imperator: Rome from Paradox *does* have changes in province goods through the missions trees, and these guys are published by PI, the publishing arm of PDS, so maybe they'll add that? But generally different regions don't have a huge number of distinct resources and in the case of Civ you can spawn basically any resource anywhere. And resources, usually, ended being either trade goods or unit qualifiers. I suppose they could make it deeper but I doubt they have.
I understand that neither Civ nor Humankind do Resources right, but I keep hoping . . .

I started arguing years ago for Dynamic resources: mineral deposits that deplete, animal and plant resources that can be moved with work, etc. Given that the depletion of, especially, Silver and Gold deposits is historically normal - and the finding of new ones always a Significant Event historically, it is a crying shame not to at least try to replicate that in the game.

(Fun Fact: the excellence of Alexander the Great's army, and therefore his ability to become a Great Conquerer, is largely based on his father Phillip's seizing of silver mines in Macedonia and using the resulting wealth to make his troops professionals, paid to train as individuals and military units all year round. As a result they could out-maneuver almost everybody, and were able to counter virtually every enemy they faced, from Thracian hillmen to Indian elephants. Without the silver, he would have been lucky to get out of Macedonia)

As I stated, it could be especially important given Millenia's proposed extended timeframe. IF they really go with a 10,000 year span, that puts the game starting before most of the common Resources were common. As mentioned, horses and cattle, and many of the most important agricultural crops were simply not available yet in large parts of the world, but were introduced by humans between about 8000 and 5000 BCE. If the game simply starts with all resources permanently in place, it makes the early part of the game a complete Fantasy even before anybody picks one of the 'Alternate' Eras.
 
This game should be a bit more simulationistic in terms of how geography affects civilIzations. In game this would amount to 'fractured land' encouraging the rise of new states, the exact climate and biome determining building and unit type (and other things). That's it, though, this is shaping up to be good. A SOTE-lite.
 
Pretty much all I want is to see how non-Earth geography (and thus climate , crop, animal, etc distribution) affects things. Let alone alien technology and magic.

Imagine two massive fertile basins, located next to each other, surrounded by high mountains on all sides and split by a lower mountain range. Two empires war with one another over and over again.

Or an archipelago of temperate and arctic islands. Indonesia meets Europe.

Or a Pangaea-like super continent in a world without polar ice caps.
 
I think once some indie games pioneer stuff like dynamic resources and trade that is detailed you might see non-indie games do it, but not until then. If you like fantasy games though dynamic resources are imminent.
Depleting/Dynamic Resources are already in some new City Builder/Survival games, like the still pre-release Farthest Frontier. In that game, all mineral resources (stone, iron, gold) are Finite and can deplete, sometimes distressingly quickly, and the deer you are hunting for food can move away, the fishing spots run out of fish, etc. But once you've reached a high enough Tier (read: technology in a 4X) you can get Deep Deposits of minerals and establish barns with domestic animals for meat and other materials. It is, in fact, exactly the type of dynamics I'd like to see on a larger scale, Civ wide instead of village wide, and there's no reason why it could not be done.
 
It's probably one-for-all for the sake of coherent gameplay (consider balancing two factions using divergent rules), but yeah, it would be really neat if you had different regions developing different paradigms. It would be the first time something like the Columbian Exchange could be modelled in the base game, rather than through purpose-built mods.



Art imitates life. :mischief:
alternatives ages having pro & cons would be good enough, maybe 'exclusive' tech (you need to reasearch more, or have contact with civ who has that tech, or already advanced to the next age)

no need to go full columbian exchange, at least final expansion if they want to add it as a feature
 
also, one more thing, about russia civ....
..... no, don't give them faster navy, get them faster army

you want britain or japan for faster navy, or maybe america
 
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