Minimod

[Sureshot]

wineries are nice, but a farm still beats them out with the right techs and civics

aristocracy+agriculture+sanitation means
+2 food, +2 commerce per farm
which is twice as good as a winery in both respects.

wineries main use id think would be as a farm supplement for civs that start with crafting and dont have agriculture yet
also, theyre good because they can be used on hills, or for commerce before you get code of laws. tho when they find wines they become much better commerce yields than a corn or such, but you give up a lot of food.

camps are amazing tho, since they go on forests, you can include the forests benefit in the camps for comparison to others, so its like +2 production, +1 food, +0.5 health, and if you can get ancient forests thats +2 food, +2 production, and +0.5 health, and with guardian of nature thats +1 happiness too

the AI uses all these new options fairly well i must say

 

[Sureshot]

MultiMod8
I switched it all to Modular Loading and got rid of a lot of excess things it didnt need, which made it about 1/10th the size.

I made a few changes, made quarries buildable on flatlands as well. I removed the changes to leaders excepting the ones who had no traits (Faeryl and Morgoth).

For Modular Loading, you need to put the Assets folder in the same place, but you also have to edit the ini file, details in the readme, and quoted here:

Installation:
Place Assets Folder into your /Fall from Heaven 2 025/ folder and let it overwrite.

You must also enable Modular Loading, to do so, edit the following file:

Fall from Heaven 2 025.ini

to change the following line (should be at the top of that file) :

; Modular XML Loading
ModularLoading = 0

to:

; Modular XML Loading
ModularLoading = 1


Uninstalling:
to remove this mod, simply delete the /MultiMod/ folder from the /Assets/Modules/ folder
that will remove everything except the drown reskin, to remove that simply delete the folder /Assets/Art/Units/Afterworld_Bleeder_Aberrant/

 

[westamastaflash]

I would venture to say that camps are overpowered. Perhaps they should just provide +1 . Lumbermills do +1 and don't arrive for a long time...

 

[Calavente]

I haven't tested it yet, but it seems giving +2 is kinda big.. compared to mines and farms. almost competitive.
especially as mines are incompatible with forests... and thus gives +3 on hills and camps gives +2 +forest (+ ancient forest)...

maybe some of those improvement could be reduced to a net +1...?
(not all, but some)

and how did you balanced the 'discovery' rate of ressources ?
'coz if every improvement save cottage can find a ressource, there is the risk to discover a new ressource every odd turn.

 

[Sureshot]

they are all the same rate of discovery as mines without any earth manas

played a decently longer game last night of it and only found 1 corn out of a ton of farms and camps, so its not discovering too quickly

ive been considering changing camps to +1 production and +1 commerce

 

[westamastaflash]

ive been considering changing camps to +1 production and +1 commerce

+1 i could live with. Add +1 with Commune with Nature.

A forested plains hill with a camp is better than putting a mine on it until Arete (only if you're ROK) or blasting powder..

Plains Forest Hill with Camp:
1 , 4 , +0.5

Plains Hill with Mine
4 , Hammers from chopping. +1 with Arete, +1 with blasting powder

 

[Sureshot]

MultiMod9

Some changes:
-made Faeryl Arcane/Charismatic to fit better and be a new interesting combination (should allow for some much quicker mages/conjurers)
-added leader Wickedshot for svartalfar, who is neutral with Phi/Rai traits
-made camps +1 , with +1 with Commune with Nature tech
-changed svartalfar secondary color for flags, still havent figured out how to fix the problem with the ljo units overriding the fewer svartalfar specific graphics

 

[Sureshot]

MultiMod10

only change over MultiMod9 is i fixed the svartalfar unit problem.

the problem was that svartalfar had the artstyle of their own for the archers and such that seZ made, but that the promotion_elf artstyle was overriding them, even the svartalfar ones that have been made. to fix it i merged the applicable ljosalfar art into the svartalfar artstyles, and removed the promotion elf change, and applied it directly to the ljo. a bit not as pretty as the way it was done, but no problematic overrides.

 

[kidcarson]

I like most of your mini-mod, but is there any way to make the improvements have an affinity like earth to mines for fishing/whaling boats to water,etc. ?

 

[Caradoc]

On a Plains/Hill/Forest an Elf Worker building a Pasture adds 2 food plus 1 hammer for a very nice 2 food + 4 hammers.

 

[kidcarson]

when i put the changes onto my computer, on every improvement I moved the second of the two bonuses to Communicate With Nature. So at beginning camp/pastures/winery only gives +1 food, and plantation only gives +1 gold. And not worried about what an elven worker can do he still takes a -20% hit on workrate to make up for it, just like when building the improvements on a resource

 

[JDexter]

Wow this is a nice modmod, I really like the idea of building the different improvements A LOT! It's boring to only have farms and cottages and maybe workshops - this spices up not only the visual but also the specialization aspect. Goody goody!

 

[Sureshot]

On a Plains/Hill/Forest an Elf Worker building a Pasture adds 2 food plus 1 hammer for a very nice 2 food + 4 hammers.

pastures only add +1 food and +1 hammer.. you're using Altered Civics mod as well i take it? (so am i heh)
its definitely nice, but then you need to make sure to avoid cottages (since villages and towns suffer -1 and -2 commerce respectively)

moving some of the bonus yields could be alright, ive thought of moving some of them to civics too, but i dont want any conflicts with altered civics.

all in all i made them to be competitive with mines and agri farms, so +2 production and +2 food respectively, so they seem balanced from the get-go to me (excepting camps which definitely needed a change when they were +1/+1)
but moving their 2nd yield to techs makes farms, mines and cottages superior, since they'll start out better and end up better.
farms start out +2 food and can end up +2 food/+2 commerce or +3 food. mines start out +2 production and can end up +4 production. cottages start out at 1 commerce and end at like 5 or 6 commerce. in that scenario i wouldnt bother building anything but cottages, mines and farms as per usual.

in fact, if i were to do anything onto techs for the new improvements i'd start with what i have and then add bonuses on top of those with techs or civics.

 

[Caradoc]

Yes, Altered Civics (thanks to your pointer about the ini file). I'm looking forward to when the Forest becomes Ancient.

Overall, I like all the changes. Any chance you'll put the Dwarven mines in someday?

And here's an odd thing that happened: I had a regular Worker build a Farm on an open plot. The next turn it became a Rice farm ... with a Forest on it. (I can understand how the elves might build cottages and pastures and maybe even plantations in the forest, but how do they manage to farm?)

 

[Sureshot]

not sure how they manage it heh, but thats in vanilla FfH

dwarven mines wouldn't be hard, i'll consider it in my next version of this if i think of some other stuff i want to do

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I've never liked dwarven mines; If you build one and latter discovered a resource there that mines don't harvest, then you are out of luck. (This would be especially bad now that the AI builds over mana nodes; they would become worthless permanently)

What I would like is the ability for dwarven workers to build mines on peaks (I've found that changing <bwater> from 1 to 0 allows workers to build roads there, if they can move impassible, but still can't find a way to build mines there, even on gens or iron)

 

[Calavente]

sureshot :
you say that farms and mines are equals to camp and pastures..
I think that's not really true :
-farms need fressh water tiles : close to rivers, at least until the good tech and then, you still need to maintain the irrigated chain. and never on hills.
-mines are limited to hills. (and ressources)
-cottage begins low and don't provide any food or hammer bonus.

fishing boats, camps, pastures and quarry are buildable everywhere in your mode and thus have an avantage over the 3 previous improvement. so making them having a bit less yield is not dommageable IMO.

I think in your mode, with the value you give, for all early game you will mostly have only camps and pastures... and maybe quarrys, few farms, few mines, few cottages.
and then, in late game, when mines are +4 and farms +3, workshops are+3, all that was done before will go toward mines, farm, workshops..
so the landscap will change around mid-game.
to counter that, maybe you can make camps... less powerful at early game, and then a bit better late game, (maybe pasture gets bonis with the horse line of techs) but always a bit less powerful than mines or farms as they are more versatil. thus you should have landscape with around 1/2 or 2/3 with cottage-mines-farms and 1/3-1/2 with camps ..Etc.
(and what about workshops, lumber-wind-water mills ???)

maybe if you made them on a 2 level improvement :

pasture (+1F) worked 20/30 turns goes into "corral" (+1F, +1H)
camps (+1F) worked 20/30 t goes into "hunter reserve" (+1F, +1c)
etc...
(but then ,you have to make corral and hunter ereserve able to harvest the ressources... maybe not easy to mod)

thus they would still have a +2 yield, people will be reluctant to erase those improvement they had worked for. and they won't be overpowered compared to early farms/mines, they would be choices.

 

[westamastaflash]

What I would like is the ability for dwarven workers to build mines on peaks (I've found that changing <bwater> from 1 to 0 allows workers to build roads there, if they can move impassible, but still can't find a way to build mines there, even on gens or iron)

Perhaps peaks could be changed to a regular terrain type, then just make them impassable? Map generation code would have to be rewritten but eliminating the "peak" type might help?

 

[snarko]

What I would like is the ability for dwarven workers to build mines on peaks (I've found that changing <bwater> from 1 to 0 allows workers to build roads there, if they can move impassible, but still can't find a way to build mines there, even on gens or iron)

You can't build improvements on plots that can't have them, impassable plots can't have improvements and peaks are coded in the SDK to be considered impassable.
If you turn on the appropriate python call (canBuild) you may be able to override this behavior.

 

[Sureshot]

Calavente, I can only guess you are misreading or ignoring what I have written, so I'll state it more clearly and with detailed comparisons:

Camps are only +1 at the start, also note you need a tier2 tech to make them. they only gain +1 after you get Commune with Nature. they are only buildable on forests. also note this is all written in the first post. yieldwise (if you consider commerce, production, and food equal) it is worse all around, and all the time, compared to a mine and just as restricted.

Pastures are only +1 and +1 at the start, also note you need a tier2 tech to make them. they gain nothing from techs. they are only buildable on plains. also note this is all written in the first post. yieldwise they are the same as a mine or a farm with agriculture from the start (and later become much worse), and just as restricted.

Farms (requires tier1 tech)
Worst Case Scenario:
+1 , only around fresh water on flatlands
Best Case Scenario:
+3 or +2 / +2 , any flatland

Mines (requires tier2 tech)
Worst Case Scenario
+2 , any hill
Best Case Scenario
+4 , any hill

Pastures (requires tier2 tech)
Best and Worst Case Scenarios
+1 +1 , only on Plains

Camps (requires tier2 tech)
Worst Case Scenario
+1 , only on Forests
Best Case Scenario
+1 +1 , only on Forests

they are more than fairly balanced and in no way overpowered, they are terrain or feature specific and only match farms and mines at the start. if anything i'd make them more powerful (upping them to +3 or +4 total yield) with later techs, but in no way do i think they should be made any worse. the best reason to make them currently is for specific terrain or to get certain types of resources.

i didn't see a need to mention cottages because its outright foolish to think any of improvement changes i made can compete with an easy 5 , people more often cottaged resources before than the proper improvement if they didn't need the resource, simply because the yield is better.