Minimod

[BeefontheBone]

Oooh, nice - I missed this gaining some new features.

I might have to second the above on the avatars - built the avatar of Lugus (who's a mean fogbuster, especially when you've already got lightbringers to hand!) with Barbarian World enabled and the early hero promotion really chews through those barbarians, even before it gains access to more magic and extra affinity. Could be as simple a change as giving them a tech requirement.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Personally I really don't like the idea of Avatar Units: it sounds like a clear violation of the Compact. Plus, aren't the Mithril Golem, Messhaber of Dis, and The Avatar of Wrath already Avatars of their elements.

But, I guess its ok for a modmod, so long as you don't try convince anyone that it should be added to the main mod.

 

[Sureshot]

ya, make sure you got patch F heh

but its currently balanced i find, starts off as pretty much just a grigori warrior hero.

im surprised you havent seen the AIs making theirs, im always seeing them and having fun avatar vs. avatar battles, so much so that im considering making it so if an avatar kills another avatar they get a temporary immortal promotion that basically gives them a free life.

feedback is welcome, but avoid "i dont like this" comments if you're capable, im making these to add interesting mechanics

 

[Niveras]

Just started trying out this mod today, as I liked the idea of being able to build farms/pastures/plantations on non-bonus terrain and having a chance to gain a bonus (which made sense to me, basically planting the resource you want to grow, but it being more difficult to succeed given it is outside its natural environment). In any case, I wanted to modify it slightly more so that certain mana can give higher chances of making new bonuses appear, like Earth mana does for metals. For instance, sun mana could improve the chance of discovering farm resources, water mana improving the chances of discovering plantation resources, something-I-haven't-yet-decided to improve the chances of discovering pasture resources.

My difficulty is that I have no idea how this works. In the XML, the only thing I could find is that Earth Mana changed iDiscoverRandModifier from 0 to 20, with no stipulation as to what discovery it can make (e.g., whether it discovers metals or food resources). Additionally, while looking at the improvements.xml, the iDiscoverRand of the resources under Farm, Pasture, and Plantation were actually 0 - wouldn't this mean they actually have no chance of discovering resources? But if that's the case, why does the line about discovering resources show up in the game's interface when you go to build them? I was not able to find any references to Earth mana in the python files, so I figure however this functionality works, it's purely altered by XML.

I can only assume that there is only one variable to modify the discovery of any resource, and that since ordinarily discovering non-metals is not possible, Earth mana modifies this chance in the minimod, as it does to metals in FFH-vanilla. Still, why does the iDiscoverRand for all other resources show 0, when for the Mine, they are set to 10000?

 

[Sureshot]

you're prolly looking at the xml files in the assets/xml/terrain/ folder instead of in the assets/modules/multimod/ folder

and ya, it appears earth helps with all resources, i had thought to make other manas help with other resources but couldnt find a simple way to make it so

 

[onedreamer]

Main change to make it multiplayer friendly:
-Great People by one player does not increase the GP pool threshhold of other players on the same team

Doesn't this make Altar of Luonnotar a bit too easy ?

 

[Falc]

Since it does not look like the AI will build Avatars, this could be really unbalancing in favor of the Human player.

I certainly saw an avatar show up along with the rest of the AI army after just a few techs in an Epic speed game. Since my starting position sucked, it also killed me.

Heck, I managed to kill his first avatar and he rebuilt it...

 

[xienwolf]

Can you add in some more elements to allow other mana to make other resources more likely? (and restrict Earth mana, which seems like it might be a tad TOO good with your mod?)

Change from:
<iDiscoverRand>

To:
<iDiscoverRandMine>
<iDiscoverRandFarm>
<iDiscoverRandPasture>
<iDiscoverRandPlantation>
<iDiscoverRandCamp>

Then just set it at 0 for all but the improvement which can provide that resource.


Not entirely sure how hard it is to add a line, but should just have to edit the profile and then make sure to add it to each of the entries.

 

[Sureshot]

Doesn't this make Altar of Luonnotar a bit too easy ?

no easier than normal. ive never found it hard to get enough Great Prophets to build up the altar, the hardest part is teching to that last altarand building that, which can't be completed with Great Prophets.

 

[Sureshot]

Can you add in some more elements to allow other mana to make other resources more likely? (and restrict Earth mana, which seems like it might be a tad TOO good with your mod?)

Change from:
<iDiscoverRand>

To:
<iDiscoverRandMine>
<iDiscoverRandFarm>
<iDiscoverRandPasture>
<iDiscoverRandPlantation>
<iDiscoverRandCamp>

Then just set it at 0 for all but the improvement which can provide that resource.


Not entirely sure how hard it is to add a line, but should just have to edit the profile and then make sure to add it to each of the entries.

not seeing those specific xml tokens anywhere, and ive yet to try creating new tokens like that as it requires a different level of coding.

 

[xienwolf]

I used to have that problem. Start running one or 2 engineers in your GP forms and get (and save) some engineers. Makes it a bit too easy.

 

[Sureshot]

ive looked around the DLL a bit and found what id need to change to make different manas affect different improvements. i havent messed around with the DLL before so could take a bit to get it working but ill give it a try.

itll add 5megs before zipping to the download tho heh

 

[Caradoc]

After a second game, I take back what I said about the Avatar being overpowered. In that game I was playing Amurites with Faeryl. It was the Avatar of Oghma's having Adept in addition to Fire affinity that pumped it up.
With Ljosalfar, the Avatar did not get Adept EPs and did not become a super unit until it ate an Archmage.

 

[Sureshot]

Druids are the ideal thing to sacrifice, since it gives sorcery, divine, and channeling2 and 3.. tho for ljosalfar your avatar is pretty much just a weaker druid with less spells heh

 

[Sureshot]

MultiMod18

just added in that when an Avatar kills another Avatar its gains a free life via Immortal Promotion.

 

[Mesix]

sureshot :
you say that farms and mines are equals to camp and pastures..
I think that's not really true :
-farms need fressh water tiles : close to rivers, at least until the good tech and then, you still need to maintain the irrigated chain. and never on hills.
-mines are limited to hills. (and ressources)
-cottage begins low and don't provide any food or hammer bonus.

fishing boats, camps, pastures and quarry are buildable everywhere in your mode and thus have an avantage over the 3 previous improvement. so making them having a bit less yield is not dommageable IMO.

I think in your mode, with the value you give, for all early game you will mostly have only camps and pastures... and maybe quarrys, few farms, few mines, few cottages.
and then, in late game, when mines are +4 and farms +3, workshops are+3, all that was done before will go toward mines, farm, workshops..
so the landscap will change around mid-game.
to counter that, maybe you can make camps... less powerful at early game, and then a bit better late game, (maybe pasture gets bonis with the horse line of techs) but always a bit less powerful than mines or farms as they are more versatil. thus you should have landscape with around 1/2 or 2/3 with cottage-mines-farms and 1/3-1/2 with camps ..Etc.
(and what about workshops, lumber-wind-water mills ???)

maybe if you made them on a 2 level improvement :

pasture (+1F) worked 20/30 turns goes into "corral" (+1F, +1H)
camps (+1F) worked 20/30 t goes into "hunter reserve" (+1F, +1c)
etc...
(but then ,you have to make corral and hunter ereserve able to harvest the ressources... maybe not easy to mod)

thus they would still have a +2 yield, people will be reluctant to erase those improvement they had worked for. and they won't be overpowered compared to early farms/mines, they would be choices.

I always thought of camps as an early game necesisty and a late game luxery. Early on, hunters and gatherers go out to the forests in search of food. Later on, when farms and pastures are providing food for the masses, camps become hunting grounds for sport. Maybe the "hunter reserve" that you mention could provide +1 happy in the city. I also think that it should lose its +1 production, because loggers are not working the forest tile if the king has decreed that it is a hunting reserve.

Maybe the late game improvements that you came up with could be buildable improvements. A worker would have to return to an earlier improvement and upgrade it to the new improvement.

 

[Mesix]

I used to have that problem. Start running one or 2 engineers in your GP forms and get (and save) some engineers. Makes it a bit too easy.

This is good advice for both the Alter of Luonnatar and the Tower of Mastery victories. I wouldn't waste engineers on the four early towers, but the final tower takes a long time to build without engineers.

 

[Mesix]

One feature that I've always thought would be cool was a bonus to capturing the capital of another civ. Each unique capital gives three resources. It would be overpowering to just give the capital building (along with all of its bonuses) to the capturing civ, but it would be cool if one of the primary bonus mana types could be captured by a conquering civ.

This could be done one of two ways:

One way would involve a special national wonder that becomes available when you conquer an enemy capital (or maybe when you take their last city). Something like "Monument of Grigori" or "Khazad Forge" or "Lunan Harbor" that is thematic for each civ. The national wonder could provide a single resource (some mana, some not) and perhaps another small benefit that fits the theme of the civ that was conquered (bonus exp for units built, bonus GP points, bonus culture, bonus promotion for units of a particular type, work the third ring of the city, etc.).

Another way would be to add an item that could be moved and/or captured. This would work similar to the existing artifacts in the game, and each civ would either start with their artifact producing one of the resources for the capital, or have a unique artifact that they can build. This could be picked up and moved to another city (if the capital is being overrun for example) or captured by the enemy who takes the city.

 

[Locust-71]

I would like to see for example, if you take over a big elven or orcish city, the inhabitans of the city not just magicaly become human. So, if you as good player produce evil orcish units, with a small chance to run away.

 

[Caradoc]

After some fooling around with my Avatar, I notice that I can feed it a religion hero (Hemah). It can't be Mutated or merged into a Flesh Golem. As a Hero it is able to gain Twincast. (Haven't tried Govannonizing it yet.)

Just curious: the 'Pedia shows a long list of Promotions for the Avatar, including levels 2 and 3 from other spell spheres. Is there some way to get those?