Minimum configuration

[Startaff]

Here I am after only a few months of absence...

Well, I'm considering buying an old destop for my 10yo son to play and I'm worried about what could be the "minimum requirements" to have Civ running (and therefore OSX and other games of similar "weight")
G3 at which speed?
RAM?
Video?
I was thinking about an iMac or PowerMac G3 350 or 400 with about 200Mb RAM.

Thanks and ciao

 

[AlanH]

I was thinking about an iMac or PowerMac G3 350 or 400 with about 200Mb RAM.

I think that'll work OK as long as you don't want to play large or huge maps. G3s run much better under Panther than with earlier versions of OS X. I'd go for a G4 if you can, though, if only because it will last longer as your son's demands get more severe. And the more memory the better.

I've been running on a 350 G4 for a long time and it was OK. The G4's Altivec processor probably doesn't add a huge amount to performance but the bus speed on the G4 tower is pretty good - don't know how it compares with the G3s. I have to say I recently gave it a GigaSystems 1 GHz CPU for UK£225 (about US$300). In combination with the GeForce graphics card I bought for it six months ago, the performance of that lowly machine is now awesome.

 

[Startaff]

My... Alan! You're always out there quickly answering to everybody!

1000 thanks.

Unfortunately, G4's still command serious money here in Italy (500 Euro for 400MHz) while iMacs can be found at 200/250 Euro for 350/400MHz.
Last question: are graphic cards a major issue? I don't know anything about this and don't know which models are advisable or preferable to have.

 

[AlanH]

My problem was that the old G4 towers had a low spec ATI Rage card with insufficient memory to run Quartz Extreme. I put one in with more memory (32 or 64 MB I think) to solve that problem. I don't know what you get in a G3 iMac or PowerPC, but it does make a big difference. It takes some of the graphics processing load off the CPU, and Quartz Extreme gives some very pretty special effects, like the user switching. I used to run Civ3 with Quartz text switched off to conserve CPU, but with the GeForce card I started to run with it on, even before I upgraded the CPU.

 

[dojoboy]

I ran Civ3 on a G3 / 333MHz w/ 512MB RAM (ATI Rage card) for 2 years just fine, avoiding large and huge maps. Well, you can play the large and huge maps, just keep the number of civs to a standard map size number (8). I did, as Alan mentioned, leave quartz rendering off while using classic and 10.1, but w/ jaguar, it ran fine. You're going to need at least 128 MB RAM if patched to 1.21g or 1.29b2, and more if using jaguar or panther (I'm assuming).

 

[Startaff]

I was assuming to use Panther anyway and I've read everywhere that it runs smoother than any previous OSX version but it obviously needs RAM (who doesn't?)

I just did a quick survey on old Macs' specs.
All the G3 (both iMac and PowerMac) had ATI Rage (with 8/16M RAM on iMacs and 16/32M RAM on PMacs), as well as the blue&white G4 PMacs.
To get a GeForce with 32M RAM I'd have to get at least a "Quicksilver" G4 PMac or an "upgraded" G3.
In both cases, we get close to 700/800 Euro, which is the money for a brand new eMac at 1,25GHz (and very far from the money I have!)

 

[AlanH]

Can you get an old G4 tower? Mine was a 350 MHz Sawtooth, vintage 1999 I think, and IMHO it was the best Mac value I've ever had. I imagine they might be quite cheap now as 'previously loved' equipment? Of course you also need a monitor, but it will drive any cheap CRT.

Mine ran OK for years even before I bought it a Geforce 4MX (about 160 Euro from Other World Computing) last year, and the 1 GHz CPU (about 320 Euro from 2nd Chance in the UK) last month. It had a couple of RAM upgrades when Jaguar arrived, and it now has 1.12GBytes. I also gave it an 80 GByte second hard drive and a firewire CD burner. Oh, and it's Airport enabled, so it has an Airport card and can provide a wireless basestation for my daughter's Powerbook. It seems to be semi-infinitely upgradable, making it an excellent investment. A lot of the bits I've added to it would also be portable to another system if I changed, but I can't see that happening for quite a while yet.

 

[Startaff]

I made a few calculations with the help of your upgrade costs and, apart from upgradeability, an old Powermac - once upgraded - will cost more than a brand new eMac and far more than I want/can spend.
I'd like to get an "interim" machine, able to keep my son busy for a couple of seasons before he'll jump over our (mine and my wife's) portables.
I've learnt that the "tireness" factor - as far as games are concerned - depends on:
a) games owned by playmates (often Windows-based, therefore: no chance!)
b) games always new
I'd go for route b, constantly looking for new but simple games, able to run on lowly machines and this should allow me to keep him satisfied with a "brand new" old iMac

 

[AlanH]

Sure, I wouldn't buy one for upgrade now. My thought was you could buy a cheap old G4 and it would work out of the box now, but it would be expandable as time goes on, delaying the time when you have to discard and replace it.

Here's an example: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4607&item=5100057179&rd=1 (no keyboard or mouse though, and I don't know if it's Sawtooth)