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Ministry of Defense, Term 7

Discussion in 'Team Epsilon' started by peter grimes, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    There is a barbarian city near where Mysterious Marquay. What are we going to about it, if anything?
     
  2. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    Alright, I haven't had as much time to devote to this Office as I had hoped, so apologies. This has left Memphus with more responsibilities than otherwise :salute:

    I've been looking at our production capacity in preparing for the inevitable War of Liberation.

    Immortal Keep can pull in 36 :hammers: at current size. It would be best to grow to size 9 and pull in 40 :hammers:. That will allow us Cavalry in 3 turns and ChokuNu's in 1.5 turns. We can build these while waiting for Astronomy (14 turns) to come in (as long as we nab Horseback Riding - 2 turns). We should be able to round up at least 7 cavalry by the time our boats are ready.

    But we can't go in with only Cavalry. If we want some anti-mounties, we could do Pikemen or WarElephants. They both wind up delivering the same :strength: for the same :hammers:, but W.E. don't get defensive bonuses, while Pikes do. For that reason, I'd go with Pikes to leave behind in cities (if we don't raze.)

    Likewise, we'll need ChokuNus to have as stack defenders too. I'm thinking the initial wave should have at least 4.

    None of these units can get there without boats, and that's where I'm worried. We won't see the production (and XP) boost from a Dry Docks for a long time (Steel), so we're stuck with raw hammers. And we don't have great production centers on our coasts. Point Defiance isn't too bad, but it needs to grow. Sunset Fortress and Sunrise Citadel are also not terrible. We'll definitely need to use the whip here.

    Round-trip travel from the nearest Loco coast that we currently know of is 5 turns - that's assuming a pick-up spot off the southeastern spit. Each Galleon can hold 3 units, so we should have an absolute minimum of 5 galleons at the start of the Liberation.

    Realistically, I think we're looking at somewhere around turn 180 before we'll have all this in place, and are ready to set sail.

    I've never conducted a multiplayer war against such skilled players, so let's all tear apart this plan, and come up with a better one.
     
  3. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    One "army" should consist of:
    2 catapults
    2 chokunus
    2 pikes/elephants
    6 cavalry
    Support units like city raider maces or city garrison muskets
    15 units total.

    I would like to have at least 2 armies for our initial assault.
     
  4. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    Good start here gentlemen! :thumbsup:

    I like DaveMcW's army makeup a lot – but I have a question about the two armies thing.
    Seeing as how we're likely to be in a race with Innovia, I wonder about sending 1 army to attack from the sea via our Galleons, having a ½ ish sized army to attack from the land from Loco's West (staging from that city we're talking about founding down there) and then building up the reserve army to defend against Innovia and/or invade Innovia when the Loco operations are going well.

    Don't forget, we also have to produce Cavalry to send (for free) to Piffle. I'm worried that if we try to play it TOO safe in building totally overwhelming force, we risk letting Innovia completely take out Loco while we're just building.
    Or maybe that's ok? Then we just go straight to fighting Innovia? I think it'll be easier to take Loco's cities from Loco than it will be to take them from Innovia – just because Innovia is technologically superior and has access to their UU.
     
  5. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

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    2 Armies. But the boats are being sverly overestimated.

    By the time we go to war we will have a road all the way to the Barbarian City, and it will be contining to press forwards into loco land. Once aquiring engineering, Cavalry can run at 6 tiles a turn. this means that all cavalry can run there, and continue to reinforce.
     
  6. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    5-move galleons are so much fun though. :) We can terrorize the whole coast at once!
     
  7. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

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    True...and I wouldn't mind a Frigate or 2 to strike fear (and for bombardment)
     
  8. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    Great start to the discussion! :)

    First things first:
    This looks like a great combination, but why have only 2 cats? If we're worried about cultural defense, we should have at least 4 bombarding cats, supplemented by some (4?... for 2 city assaults?) suicide collateral lobbers. Muskets are nice, but if we're talking about staging this invasion soon, then we'll get more strength per hammer from Pikes and Chok's. After the initial assault, we could certainly supplement with muskets.

    Lastly, having 2 armies for the initial assault is great, but that means pushing back the initial invasion launch until roughly t200. Is that OK?

    Really? I don't see how that's possible, personally. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but we're looking at (roughly) 40 tiles that need to be roaded, plus the worker move onto each tile. That's roughly 120 worker turns! Assuming an assault at t200, that means we've got 43 turns in which to accomplish 120 worker-turns. So, this very next turn, we should be executing 3 worker turns on the Grand Highway. That's just not going to happen, with all the other improvements we need.

    We're going to use boats, as far as I can tell. Beleive me, I'd rather build Cavalry than boats, but we are where we are :). And if we're using boats, we need to be dropping off at least one boatload of units on Loco's mainland every single turn. Since it's 5 turns round trip, that means a minimum of 5 ships at the start: this number should grow as the war progresses. The initial invasion will have to be stronger than the supplemental waves, simply because we don't have 10 cities that can produce units quick enough. Will we use the Draft?

    Frigates cost 90 :hammers:, and I think that once we have Chemistry we'll still be pushing out Galleons to terrorize their coast. I'm not advising that we should avoid building Frigates, but I really think that by the time we have the hammers to spare, Loco will be dead. Of course, our Frigates will be very useful against Innovia :evil:

    Speaking of which, I'm not sure where to post this last thought:
    Shall we try and divert Loco into thinking that Innovia is planning on attacking? Clearly we don't want to scare Loco into building up their military, but it might be useful to let them know of certain correspondences that we have had with Innovia. This will serve a dual purpose: to foster distrust between Innovia and Loco, thereby distracting Loco from our intentions; and, secondly, to lull Loco into a false sense of security. We may even talk of extending our 'non-aggression' or whatever it is we have with them, in such a way as to further lull them.
     
  9. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

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    I Just counter. There are 20 tiles that would require a road to the barb city.
    10 of Which move into a Jungle or Forest (meaning 3 turns to road instead of 2)

    This give us 10 * 2 + 10 * 3 = 50 Worker Turns. :)

    Currently 3 Workers are in the area (2 building a pasture and then a road, and will continue to road in the area until the boat can swing back for them to take them to our newly captured barbarian city (By the way it needs a name) the otehr Worker is coming south from Overlook Bay.
     
  10. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    :hmm: I just counted as well, and I can only arrive at 20 tiles needing roads if I count from Loco's border in the south, to Sunrise Citadel - 21, to be exact, and that's utilizing the left-over barbarian road in the deep SE... But we'd still need to get units TO sunrise citadel. For that matter, i was able to reduce the number of roaded tiles by assuming a bridge galleon SE of sunrise citadel. This got the roaded tiles down to 15.

    I didn't even look at how many tiles need to be roaded to get units to sunrise citadel in the first place. What am I missing?
     
  11. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    Made a blank strategy map, and one with my own drawings in it.
    Thought it might be helpful to us as we plan the attack.
    :salute:

    Spoiler Blank Map :





    Spoiler My understanding of the plan :


     
  12. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    Thanks, General_W :salute:

    We should have the galley that's dropping of the Barbarian Expeditionary Force scout out the area where we're going to be building a road. Then, on the return trip, he can hug the northern arm of that Gulf and see how far west Loco has come.
     
  13. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Would it be good to wait for Rifles?
     
  14. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    I assume that we will wait to attack the barb city utnil it gets to size two.
     
  15. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

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    Ok well hopefully a new term 9 thread will be opened soon.

    In any event we have 3 units in the spot for LOS in the East.

    A Catapult
    A Cho-ku-nu
    A Maceman.

    Who will stay behind? Which 2 will continue moving on to Sunrise?
     
  16. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    Let's leave the Maceman behind - the two units that can do collateral damage will be more useful in the upcoming War.
     

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