Minor Civilizations as Resources

HooDoo

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At the request of Dom Pedro II, I am copying and pasting a post I made in Kinboat's "Egyptian Units" thread so that we do not clutter up that thread.

Gentlemen,

I, too, used to worry about how to utilize many of the great "flavor" units that are available to us. As my choices grew, it became increasingly more frustrating for me to try and play each civilization as new units became available for that civilization. A few months ago, I came up with a solution that works, at least for me. I use "minor civs" as resources. I play on a huge map, with sixteen civs. Setting the appearance ratio at 25 for each minor civ resource means that each minor civ will appear only 4 times on the map (I think). I currently have exactly 50 different minor civ resources, ranging from the Tunit in the Tundra to the Kush in the Flood Plain. Each minor civ resource has a specific improvement/small wonder that can be built only if the minor civ resource is within the city radius. The improvement/small wonder produces a unit unique to that specific minor civ resource. The build time varies between 10 and 20 turns. In this way, I can be playing the Iroquois, but I may end up with a military force that contains not only the great native North American units, but also may contain a fighting force consisting of Incan Slingers, Jomon Warriors, Lion Warriors, and Pictish Warriors fighting side by side.

They say that variety is the spice of life, and I can vouch that the variety the minor civ resources bring to my Civ game certainly has "spiced up" my enjoyment in the game. In addition to the various units, some minor civ resources also open up unique pathways in architecture, commerce, religion, etc. I no longer start with specific "culture groups". Every civ starts with basically the same "vanilla" architecture and tech tree. What architectural style, religion, improvements and wonders your civilization develops depends almost entirely on what minor civs you encounter and assimilate.

I'm sure that my mod of the game may make some historical purists blanch, but it is kind of cool to be playing as England and have your dominant religion be Hindu and your dominant architectural style be Meso American, or to play as Persia and have your dominant religion be animist and your dominant architectural style be Far Eastern.
 
Thanks :)

I really think this is a fantastic idea! It's so good, in fact, that I'm stealing it... sort of. In part I should say. You probably haven't seen this yet, but I'm working on a mod called The Age of Man which is an attempt to create a unique gaming experience for each civilization. Here's a link: The Age of Man Travel Guide

I don't really feel comfortable with having so much of each civilization dependent on the peoples under their authority, but I think that they should, indeed have variation among their regions based on the culture of the people who originally occupy these lands. I think I'm going to create maybe 10-15 minor civs that will allow for mercenary units to be built by the various civs, and also it will allow for improvements unique to that culture, but they will only be buildable in the city that has that civ within it's radius. So you probably won't have more than one of these buildings, but you might if you get multiple resources.

This will work well since each civilization has a strength in military... some have more infantry units and less cavalry units, others have more cavalry and less infantry... then it's broken down into light vs. heavy infantry/cavalry. The mercenary units will allow, for example, a civilization like the Aztecs with very poor cavalry to build Khazak light cavalry units if they have them within their empire. They cost more though, of course, and I think, in general, I'm going to lessen the mercenaries' HP.

I'm interested to know though, as a civ expands, do you ever find that the building queue gets really cluttered if you've got like six different minor civilizations under your control?
 
Yes It’s a very nice idea with a lot of possibilities. It would be great if they are preplaced in some scenarios. I was thunking in a Classic world scnenario, in a Napolionic Era or to use some native colonial forces or mercs in Large real imperiums (Rome, Spain, Great Britain)

Sure I will try. It will be a great way to introduce some lovely units (I.E. Kryten’s hoplites & Bebro´s chariots).

But I’m not sure to understand de mechanics.

When you say: Each minor civ resource has a specific improvement/small wonder that can be built only if the minor civ resource is within the city radius.

You increase an icon unit at the icon resources table.
You introduce the new resource at the pedia

You introduce a new small wonder for each new resource
You introduce the new wonder at the pedia

You go to the edit and mod the new resources (tech, bonus, trade) and the new wonder (works as Temple of zeus & Iron works)
 
DP II,

The building queue does not become too cluttered (at least for me). Because the building queue generated by the tech tree has been pared back somewhat, the additional buildings that become available through the minor civ resources, combined with the tech tree buildings, amount to an increase of only about 20 to 30%.

(DP II, I'm on another break from work. This is probably the last chance I'll have to respond until Saturday).

Everyone,

Keep those questions coming, and I'll try and answer them on Saturday.
 
It is not too different from the usual: Resource "Horses" allows to build Unit "Horsemen" for every civ that owns the resource... only that in this case it'd be rare as hell.

I suggest using this in a scenario environment, preplacing these underneath or in immediate vincinity of barbarian cities and name the barbarians according to what the minor civ resource is supposed to be.
 
Not a bad idea. It's kinda similar to what I'm already doing with my FF mod, except that the minor "civs" are Elvaan and Dwarves, and if you have those resources, you can build certain units (for instance, the first Tank-type unit available is the Dwarven Battle Wagon, which requires Iron, Saltpeter, and dwarves to build. If you don't have dwarves, youll have to wait until you research Advanced Steam Engines (optional tech available after Industrialization) to build a tank-type unit. I do, however, need to decrease the frequency of the Elvaan and Dwarves resources in order to keep everyone and their uncle from having them. If I can find the apropriate graphics, I may even throw other minor FF races in as Strategical Resources.
 
Weasel Op said:
This is a really interesting idea, but it sounds like it would be best limited to scenarios only. Otherwise you have the same minor civ appearing several places randomly around the world, and you get civs building various units from different parts of the world.

True, but I'd still like to incorporate this to some degree in the epic game...

What might be cool is setting a Disappearance and Appearance Ratio so that you get something akin to migration of tribes... :D


EDIT: Maybe I'll make up a set of generic minor civ resources... and one will be called Nomads and it'll have a high Appearance/Disappearance Ratio so it moves around the map rather frequently....
 
Personally, i love this idea, though the question in my mind is; what civs to use to make minor civs...

one coudl easilly implment three minor civs for every major civ present...
 
I'd say most of the barbarians could be good choices... there'd definitely be a few civs that might be candidates for elimination and making into minor civ resources: Hittites, Mayans, Portuguese, Sumerians.

You could also add the Assyrians, Scots, Picts, Khazaks, Seljuks, Gokturk, Tupi, Cherokee, Moche, Goths, Poles, Khazars.... lots of good stuff...

But again, I wonder if it'd be better to go with generics? I mean, it'd be a little weird if you have the Picts appearing on one continent and then appearing on a totally different one.
 
I think that the appearance rate should be set so that only one of each appear.
I, too, like the idea. :)
You could use the barbarian list from the game... at least for most of them.

BTW, Xen, your sig is too long...
 
mrtn said:
I think that the appearance rate should be set so that only one of each appear.
I, too, like the idea. :)
You could use the barbarian list from the game... at least for most of them.

BTW, Xen, your sig is too long...

I don't think it's possible to have only one of each resource appear... is it?? :confused:
 
If you want the minor civs to be clumped together, just set them as luxury resources. I've found in C3C that it tends to group luxury resources on certain continents, but not on others. For instance, one continent will have spice and incense, but not furs or dyes, while another continent has furs and gems, but no incense or spices, and so on. Of course the only problem with that is that you'll have these minor tribes making your citizens happy. :/
 
Hikaro Takayama said:
If you want the minor civs to be clumped together, just set them as luxury resources. I've found in C3C that it tends to group luxury resources on certain continents, but not on others. For instance, one continent will have spice and incense, but not furs or dyes, while another continent has furs and gems, but no incense or spices, and so on. Of course the only problem with that is that you'll have these minor tribes making your citizens happy. :/


Are you sure it has to do with the fact that they are luxury resources and maybe not that they are distributed at random? Have you ever seen what happens when you randomize the strategic resources?
 
Hikaro Takayama :I’m not sure about you idea. If you set them as lux resources they will appear just in the acurate terrains for this luxuries, but you can find everywhere you have hills or jungle, or desert the same minor tribes.

My PC at home it´s actually broken and i can’t try. But I love so much this idea.

Really it´s so good for an scenario.

How about use it with the dynamic of the horse resource (as Winter suggest) combined with a kind of Temple of zeus+Ironworks. You need a technology & the resource to build horsemen: but you can choose at edit nation list the acurate race & time unit (i.e. Egypt chariots, knigths, Conquistador, anzar, cosack etc).

We really need only 4 minor tribes resource Icons (you can add more) to play:
- MTR-(Cavalry)- Horseman line
- MTR-(Defensive inf)-Sperman-line
- MTR-(Attack Inf)-Warrior-swordman line
- MTR- (Ligth inf) –archers line

We put these 4 icons as normal resources but we check-uncheck the possibility or not to build the units for the different nations i.e. :

the resource -MRT-Def. inf- appears every where on grassland but only
- Greeks can make Subjugated hoplites,
- Germans only euro-spearmans,
- Chinesse, jomon warriors, etc

I think it will be a nice new flavour units solution acurate to races & culture groups.

waiting for you on saturday HooDoo
 
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