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Missing Civilizations

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by Tunch Khan, Oct 24, 2005.

  1. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
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    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Do we even know for a fact that Dido was a real person? Since the Romans only have Caesar, I don't think two Carthaginians are a priority.

    I'm at a disadvantage in giving good suggestions, since I don't own the game, so I'm not sure about leader traits.

    Hannibal strikes me as an agressive person. I personally think Caesar was organized, industrious, and other things, but he doesn't get any of them, which makes me wonder what Hannibal would get. I'd probably say Agressive and Organized. The Carthaginians are financial, but I wouldn't necessarily attribute that to Hannibal.

    I personally like Rome Total War's symbol a lot (the crescent moon facing upwards with a circle below it). It could be too arabic, though.

    I've never seen this palm tree thing before, but I don't know if my idea is any better or worse.

    Still at a disadvantage with my knowledge. Maybe Fishing and the Wheel

    I'd have to think about these.

    I'd disagree here. Carthage's use of War Elephants have been vastly overrated in my opinion. I still think Numidian Horsemen are the best idea (and I've thought it since PTW). Not sure how to differentiate it from the Keshik, but it would probably replace Horse Archers.

    Seem fine :)
     
  2. Tunch Khan

    Tunch Khan King

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    805
    Location:
    Williamsburg, Brooklyn
    Thank you very much for all of your suggestions. Every suggestion is muchly appreciated.

    What I'm trying to do in this database is to stick to historical facts as much as I can while modding these orphan civilizations in a way to make them popular, by including popular figures in history or popular myth. Hannibal was a statesman and general, but he's the only popular Carthagenian person. As is Dido, since she appears in many early Greek and Roman sources, some like respectable Virgil. She's considered as founding queen of Carthage and I think that should be enough for a fun mod that tries to revive an ancient civilization whose written records are long forgotten. Besides it's always nice to have a few extra ladies in our diplomacy screen. :)
    About Romans having only Caesar, that's a shame. I'm a strong believer in presenting the players with as much diversity as possible. I'm sure they can add more leaders for Romans. If no one comes with a better idea (which I'm sure everyone has one when it comes to Romans) I will add Berlusconi as I'm a personal fan of his. ;)

    The same popular idea goes for War Elephants. I'm not against Numidian Horseman but Hannibal's elephants were the subject of many popular stories all through the middle ages up until today. I believe they should be given some priority for these reasons, but I will place Numidian Horesman as a second UU.
    It has been suggested in this thread that palm trees would represent Carthage better, and after making some research on Carthagenian coins (which you can find here) I have concluded to have either a palm tree or a horse under a palm tree as their flag. It seems that Carthagenians loved horses (which is a good sign for their Numidian Horseman UU) and they lived under the palm trees. :lol: There are some other animals like elephants and crabs as well as some crops, but horses and palms appear like in almost every coin through their histrory.
     
  3. Vietcong

    Vietcong Deity

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    2,570
    Location:
    Texas
    for the vikings, i whold use the biserker agin, it was a very good uu...


    i whold personly use it to replace the maceman, or the ax man
    give him the same stats, but insted of a 20% *or 25%* advantage aginst foot troops, i whold give it a 50% along with amphibius asult.maby even 25+ city atack
    * whold that be too over powering??*
     
  4. dalek master

    dalek master Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Depths of the time war
    Civilization : Australia

    Leader : Gogh Whitlam

    Capital : Canberra

    Flag : The Australian Flag

    Starting Techs : Hunting, Fishing

    Great Scientists : ????

    Great Merchants : ????

    Great Prophets : ????

    Great Artists : ????

    Great Engineers : ????

    Unique Unit : Dig Infantry (more defensive Infantry)

    Cities :

    Canberra
    Sydney
    Tasmania
    Melbourne
    Wollongong (my father's home town)
    Brisbane
    more, but I can't be bothered to remember any more right now...:)
     
  5. Tunch Khan

    Tunch Khan King

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    805
    Location:
    Williamsburg, Brooklyn
    I like the berserkers as well, added to the Vikings. I need to wait and see the game files first to code the unit stats.
     
  6. Tunch Khan

    Tunch Khan King

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    Location:
    Williamsburg, Brooklyn
    dalek master; I know more Aussie cities than that and i haven't even been there yet. And you say your father's home town is over there, shame on you ;) put on some more cities. :) lol, kidding. Can you explain the dig infantry please.
     
  7. dalek master

    dalek master Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
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    336
    Location:
    Depths of the time war
    It represents the Australian Military during wartime-australia. A nicer name than "anzac infantry", as "anzac" may be an unpopluar word umong aussies.
     
  8. Danc2Lindy

    Danc2Lindy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Messages:
    1
    Would the following be correct? I think that is the way it is in Conquests.

    Starting Techs :Alphabet and Masonry


    Great Scientists : Bomilcar, Tanit, Eshmuniaton


    Unique Unit : Numidian Mercenary
     
  9. vladdy

    vladdy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Messages:
    13
    Civilization : Serbia

    Leader : Dusan

    Capital : Belgrade

    Flag : Red, Blue, White with 2-headed eagle

    Starting Techs : Agriculture, Archery

    Great Scientists : Nikola Tesla, Mihailo Pupin, Mileva Pavlovic (Albert Einstein's wife, great in physics herself, that he took most of his ideas from)

    Great Merchants : Cirilo, Milutin, Nemanja,

    Great Prophets : , Njegos, St. Sava, St. Nikola, St. Stefan

    Great Artists : Zdravko Colic, Weird Al Yankovic :), Vlade Divac

    Great Engineers : Ratko, Radovan, Momcilo

    Unique Unit : Chetniks (guerilla that were fighting for king in WWII against both germans and communists)

    Cities :

    Belgrade (Capital)
    Novi Sad
    Nis
    Podgorica
    Banja Luka
    Kragujevac
    Sabac
    Cacak
    Trebinje
    Srpsko Sarajevo
    Subotica
    Cetinje
    Niksic
    Vranje
    Pristina (kosovo IS Serbia)
    Smederevo
    Zrenjanin
    UZice
    Kraljevo
    Leskovac
    Pirot
    Budva
    Zajecar
    Negotin
    Herceg novi
    Pljevlja
    Kos. Mitrovica
    Kotor
    Bor
    Pancevo
     
  10. Tunch Khan

    Tunch Khan King

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    Oh I got it, but i didn't know ANZAC would be unpopular as there's an ANZAC Memorial Day in Galippoli (Turkey) every year and the Aussies are always present with their highest representatives like Prime Minister and many Aussies travel across the world to attend it.
     
  11. Tunch Khan

    Tunch Khan King

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    Location:
    Williamsburg, Brooklyn
    Thanks for the ideas. Added the techs and scientists. I think I placed Numidian Horseman which are mercenaries already. Let me know if that doesn't work.
     
  12. raen

    raen Coat of Arms

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Messages:
    2,284
    Location:
    Portugal
    Civilization: Portugal

    Leader: - D. Afonso Henriques (Founder and first King of Portugal – Expansive and Agressive)
    - Infante D. Henrique (Prince Henry) (Starter of the Age of Discovery - Expansive and Organized)

    Capital: Lisboa (Lisbon)

    Flag: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/pt).html, http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/pt-1143.html

    Starting Techs:

    Great Scientists: Egas Moniz (nobel prize of medicine), Pedro Nunes (mathematics, astronomy),
    Bento de Jesus Caraça (mathematics), António Damásio (medicine),
    Daniel Sampaio (medicine), Garcia da Orta (biology)

    Great Merchants: (I put the portuguese great navigators, from age of discovery here,
    I think they fit, dont really know the meaning of tycoon)
    Vasco da Gama, Pedro Álvares Cabral, Fernão de Magalhães, Gil Eanes, Bartolomeu Dias.

    Great Prophets: Padeira de Aljubarrota (Woman baker), Irmã Lúcia (Sister),
    António de Pádua (Santo António) (Saint), Papa João XXI (Pope), Padre António Vieira (Priest)

    Great Artists: Vasco Santana (cinema), Manoel de Oliveira (cinema), Luis vaz de Camões (literature),
    Gil Vicente (literature), Almeida Garrett (literature), Eça de Queiroz (literature),
    Fernando Pessoa (literature), José Saramago (nobel prize of literature),
    Amália Rodrigues (music), Zeca Afonso (music), Carlos Paredes (music),
    Maria João Pires (music), João Cutileiro (arts), Vieira da Silva (arts)

    Great Engineers: Marquês de Pombal, Fontes Pereira de Melo, Siza Vieira, Edgar Cardoso, Fernando Távora

    Unique Unit: Nau (Carrack) or
    one from here (hard to choose):
    http://www.viriatus.com/catalog.asp?Escala=54&Per=Z (since I only see ground units in civ4)


    Cities:

    Lisboa
    Porto
    Faro
    Guimarães
    Coimbra
    Braga
    Beja
    Setúbal
    Leiria
    Aveiro
    Guarda
    Bragança
    Ponta Delgada
    Portalegre
    Évora
    Viseu
    Vila Real
    Viana do Castelo
    Santarém
    Funchal
    Goa
    Damão
    Diu
    Ceuta
    Luanda
    Lourenço Marques
    Bissau
    Praia
     
  13. BloodCelt

    BloodCelt Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2003
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Yserbius
    Confederate States:

    Leader : Jefferson Davis, Woodrow Wilson

    Capital : Richmond

    Flag : 1st Confederate National Flag ( Red/White Fields, Blue Circle with white Stars)

    Starting Techs :Agriculture, horseback riding

    Great Scientists : George Washington Carver, Matthew Fontaine Maury

    Great Merchants : Howard Hughes, Etienne de Bore

    Great Prophets : MLK Jr,

    Great Artists : Louis Armstrong, Elvis Presley

    Great Engineers : Merewether Lewis (admittedly my knowledge is weak here, but he did find a way west to the pacific, so I'm sure he built a canoe or something along the way)

    Unique Unit : Mounted Infantry, or Early Sub.

    Cities :
    Atlanta
    Nashville
    Macon
    Jacksonville
    Chattanooga
    Knoxville
    Little Rock
    Houston
    Dallas
    Baton Rouge
    Jackson
    Charlotte
    Charleston
    Birmingham
    Huntsville
    Pensicola
    Key West
    Memphis
    Fort Smith
    Murfreesboro
    Raleigh
    Winston-Salem
    Greensboro
    Tulsa
    Muskogee
    Oaklahoma City
    Auburn
    Montgomery
    Tuscaloosa
    Selma
    Tallahassee
    Tampa
    Gainsville
    Cape Canaveral
    Savannah
    Dalton
    Pine Bluff
    El Dorado
    Vicksburg
    Meridian
    Natchez
    Biloxi
    Gulfport
    Sumter
    Shreveport
    Lake Charles
    Lynchburg
    Norfolk
    Arlington
    Kingsport
    Lubbok
    El Paso
    Amarillo
    Corpus Christi
     
  14. Hemiptera

    Hemiptera Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18
    To add to his 15.

    St. John's
    Gander
    North Sydney
    Lunenburg
    Yarmouth
    Fredrickton
    Moncton
    Charlottetown
    Trois-Riviers
    Hull
    Sudbury
    North Bay
    Mississauga
    Thunder Bay
    Sault Ste Marie
    Saskatoon
    Moose Jaw
    Red Deer
    Yellow Knife
    White Horse
    Iqaluit
    Alert
    Prince George
    Banff
    Stewart
    Guelph
    Inuvik
    Churchill
    Sherbrooke
    Chicoutimi
    Regina
    Kelowna
    Medicine Hat
    Kamloops
    Lethbridge
    Victoria -- Or is this too common
    Brandon
    Portage La Prarie
    Flin Flon
    Sept-Iles

    How many of each group should we try to have at a minimum? and at a max?

    For cities 25-50?
    Each category of great people 10-20?

    Louis Riel should be a great prophet. There are a few Canadian saints too but I don't know them off of the top of my head.

    Great Artists: Micheal J. Fox, Maragret Atwood, Robert Service, Tom Thompson (the rest of the group of 7),

    And one minor correction it's Ottawa.
     
  15. SuperBeaverInc.

    SuperBeaverInc. Groucho

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2003
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    14,923
    Location:
    British Columbia
    Alert, Yarmouth, and Iqaluit before Regina and Victoria?
     
  16. Durams

    Durams Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1
    wtb byzantium =)
     
  17. Fox Mccloud

    Fox Mccloud Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,750
    Location:
    The Empire of America
    I always thought they were hard to make. Somehow, though, we got tons of leaders from the fans for Civ3, I think Civ4 will do just fine.....
     
  18. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Little known fact is that, of the Elephants that crossed the Alps, all of them died by the second or third battle (many of them just dying in the crossing). The only one that survived was the one Hannibal road. The only place Hannibal got to really try out Elephants against the Romans was at Zama, where he lost (the Elephants were the reason he lost, since Scipio had figured out how to defend against them and caused them to panic and stampede across Hannibal's own troops). The most effective use of Carthaginian Elephants against Rome predates Hannibal and would have been in the first punic war.

    BTW, after looking at some information about different units, one thing I think Numidian Horsemen should get is a withdraw ability (from what I hear, Horse Archers do not). I'm not sure what the Horse Archer gets, but the Keshik gets first stike, so I think they should get it as well. So that would be 6 strength, 2 movement, 25% retreat chance. Not sure how powerful that is, don't want it to completely outclass contemporary units (especially Roman Praetorians).

    OK, than that's cool :)
     
  19. Hemiptera

    Hemiptera Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18
    I suppose I should have ordered them by importance, or at least by aproximate founding date. Instead I just went east to west and then realized I was doing provincial capitals too.


    Here is an ordered list by aprox size/importance. Starting with capitals and fixed a few spleling mistakes.

    Ottawa

    Provincial Capitals

    Toronto
    Québec
    Edmonton
    Winnipeg
    Halifax
    St. John's
    Victoria
    Regina
    Fredricton
    Charlottetown

    Territorial Capitals

    Yellowknife
    Whitehorse
    Iqaluit

    The non-capital important cities

    Montréal
    Vancouver
    Calgary
    Mississauga

    The rest in no particular order

    Saskatoon
    Moose Jaw
    Red Deer
    London
    Kitchener
    Windsor
    Gander
    Churchill
    Sherbrooke
    Chicoutimi
    Kelowna
    North Sydney
    Lunenburg
    Moncton
    Trois-Riviers
    Gatineau
    Sudbury
    North Bay
    Thunder Bay
    Hamilton
    Sault Ste Marie
    Brandon
    Portage La Prarie
    Alert
    Prince George
    Banff
    Yarmouth
    Stewart
    Guelph
    Inuvik
    Medicine Hat
    Kamloops
    Lethbridge
    Sept-Iles
    Squamish
    Flin Flon
    Punkydoodles Corner

    Ok some of those may be on there for my amusement :D

    Some more prophets care of Wikipedia: Jean de Brébeuf, Noël Chabanel,Antoine Daniel, Charles Garnier, René Goupil, Isaac Jogues, Jean de Lalande, Gabriel Lalemant.
     
  20. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    One thing about PTW's Numidian Mercenary is that they intentionally misnamed it. Carthage was a rich nation that depended completely on hiring mercenaries. They used Spanish troops, Phoenician troops (from other Punic cities besides Carthage herself, which was exempt from serving), and even Celtic troops (Hannibal especially relied on them to take the blunt of Roman attacks because many of his soldiers died crossing the alps and he could readily replenish them). But a good portion were African. The Numidian tribes that lived near by were good for light cavalry (such as the javelin throwing horsemen they were famous for). But their foot soldiers weren't very good, being mostly lightly armed skirmishers. The bulk of the heavy infantry were Pikemen from Libya. Firaxis was going to call Carthage's uu the Libyan Mercenary (check the INI file, it still says Libyan Mercenary). Unfortunately, Libyan Mercenary sounds like some kind of terrorist, so they changed it to Numidian Mercenary.

    EDIT: Need to comment on this

    Isn't Alphabet later in Civ4? Do civs really start with stuff so advanced? Since Carthage is historically a mercantilistic power than dominated the mediteranian, I figure they have to start with fishing, so they can get sailing easily. The Phoenicians (who founded Carthage) are the origins of our modern alphabet, so the other tech besides fishing probably should be something that leads to Alphabet. The Wheel works well, since they are from the Middle East).
     

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