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Missing Major Religion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Houman, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. snipafist

    snipafist Prince

    Dec 17, 2005
    Zorastrianism and Judaism influenced one another, more precisely. You see an increased focus on the Devil in Jewish thought after the contact between the two.
  2. Xineoph

    Xineoph Prince

    Sep 26, 2004
    Judaism has no 'devil'

    We have Satan....but he is a normal angel.

    More specifically the angel of temptation and the collector of sins....but not the fire and brimstone guy that we typically see.
  3. morss_4

    morss_4 Warlord

    Dec 6, 2005
    Many modern scholars and historians now believe that Judaism wasn't really monotheistic until the Hellenistic era. There is evidence to suggest that before this time it held more in common with Greek polytheism, where Zeus is the king of the gods, than anything else, as there is evidence God was worshipped alongside Asurah and other regional gods.
  4. Kuranes

    Kuranes Chieftain

    Nov 29, 2005
    Given that all the religions have identical effects, does it really matter what they happen to be named?
  5. Jimbo30

    Jimbo30 Prince

    Nov 6, 2005
    When I read the religion specific threads on Civ4, it makes me glad there were none in previous Civs.

    I'd like to think there won't be any in Civ5.
  6. Amask

    Amask Oogala Boogala

    Feb 7, 2002
    Oh no.
    No Zoroastrianism. Kill Confusianism. No Canadians. No trebuchets! Only Eurasian religions. I shall now uninstall the game and burn the CD. Then I shall jump out the window because my life is officially over.

    Seriously, you, and all other people who complain about this ****, what difference does it make? It doesn't affect the gameplay in any way. In case you don't know, they can't include everything and please everyone.

    This is my first ever rant, but I am just so sick of having people complain about this nonsense.

    Rather than litter the forum with this crap, why don't you make a mod for yourself.
  7. zeeter

    zeeter Emperor

    Nov 29, 2001

    When I found out that my religion wasn't represented I had to sacrifice a chicken to the gods in retribution.
  8. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

    Dec 16, 2005
    Detroit, Michigan, USA
    I went to KFC and ate a chicken. Kinda the same thing, right?
  9. zeeter

    zeeter Emperor

    Nov 29, 2001
    Well, you're supposed to drain it's blood first in a sacrificial manner, but the way KFC chickens are tortured you're probably on the right track.
  10. Reignking

    Reignking Prince

    Oct 26, 2005
    Merry Christmas!
  11. Japanrocks12

    Japanrocks12 tired of being a man

    Apr 28, 2003
    I need Shintoism. Bias.
  12. Shivam

    Shivam Chieftain

    Jun 29, 2005
    Zarathustra is the persian name for the person the greeks called Zoroaster. thus, either works for the name of the religion. As for it's age, He preached in ancient Iran around the same time that the ancient aryans were composing the vedas. You can tell because his avestan language is so close to the vedic sanskrit that you can pretty much lift entire passages from his book wholesale into sanskrit just by changing h to s in places. Zoroastrianism is a pastoral religion that was pretty much a counter to the nature of the vedic faith. Hindu Devas (or demi gods, beings of light) become Zoroastrian Daevas, or devils as seen in Judeo-christianity. Similarly, Asuras, or demons, became the angels of Zoroaster. It's a really interesting twist on the religions of the ancient indo-aryan people.

    Incidentally, this religion was well and established when the Jews fled to babylon, and a lot of Jewish philosophy was morphed through this contact. but that's a lecture for another day. Suffice to say, Civ has enough religions, and should really allow players to give names to the religions they found =)
  13. calyth

    calyth /bin/sh of a man

    Nov 8, 2005
    OP: Please do consider reading the religion section in the manual, especially the sidebar.
    There were limited amount of religions they could put in, and they did not want to start any religious flamewars, hence they made all their effects essentially the same, while allowing for religion's effects on diplomacy.
    As other have said, there are mods out there to add other religion. You might be able to craft your own.
  14. Carewolf

    Carewolf Gammelt røvhul

    Nov 3, 2005
    Maybe, but it certainly influenced Christianity. For instance it was three Zoroastrian holy men who came to Jesus and bearing gifts.

    Even then Judaism imported several old persian myth such as the great flood and Noahs arch (often attributed to the flooding of the black sea which happened just before historic time).
  15. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

    Jan 24, 2002
    Like Shivam already explained Zarathustra is the Persian name, while Zoroaster is the Greek one.

    I am mesmerized to see so many people actually know so much about this religion as well its influences, also the mature way of the followed discussion, at least at the beginning, was much appreciated. This is again the proof that most of CIV players are mature gamers. :)

    @Thanks to those who mentioned the mod, I will have a look on it.


    Often it is quite unacceptable for us if we find out that the religion we believe in our whole life is just based mostly on another religion. Christianity for example is an almost 1:1 copy from Mithraism. And you don't need to believe me that Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrism, it is a fact. Read some books or listen to this BBC 4 radio interview between some great scholars.


    Listen to it (6:04 - 10:17): http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/ram/inourtime_20051222.ram

    A quick explanation about Zarathustranism, the Cosmic Dualism and the human choice. It also remind of Cyrus the Great, the Persian King, who freed Babylon and banned slavery. The Jews were free and their temples in Jerusalem were funded and were rebuilt by Cyrus the Great. The Jews mention Cyrus the Great as their Messias in the Torah. It was at this point where the Jews came for the first time in contact with the idea of an Universal God; that is there for the entire world and not just a piece of land like Israel.

    Cyrus brought also the first human rights declaration on a cylinder that can be seen now in British Museum "The Forgotten Empire" exhibition.

    (Timescale 9:20)

    BBC4: How does Zoroastrism fit into Judaism?

    Palmer: ..Well primarily through the experience of the exile when the Jews where exiled to Babylon in the 6th century and suffered really from a massive culture shock. They were suddenly a defeated nation, their land had gone and their notion that God was the God of that particular part of land is shattered. But what then happens, which I say is brilliant, is that they conclude that God is actually the God of the entire world, where many other people would have given up. And there are evidences in Britain; we have various religions have died in the prehistoric periods, where apparently it looks like the Gods have failed the people, the crops failed, there were climate changes...

    What the Jews do is to say "No, maybe we were the ones that faulted here. Maybe we are the ones who have not thought big enough. You get this extraordinary expansion of thinking of a century of a tribal God to a universal God.

    Kind Regards,
  16. MRM

    MRM Prince

    Sep 30, 2005
    Hamburg, Germany
    Zoroastrism is not in civ4 because it don't play a role today - like many other religions too - so would it be a good idea to add a few more religions and add a system that allows religions to fade away if they are not supported enough ? Would that relect religons in the history somehow better ? There would be some kind of natural selection of religions during one game - can this be worked out that it add someting to gameplay ?
  17. romelus

    romelus NUCULAR!

    Jan 4, 2002
    taking chicken milk bath
    bleh all the religions already in the game are similar enough as is. it's just a name thing really. i'd rather have fewer religions but more differences between them
  18. panzooka

    panzooka Prince

    Jul 4, 2005
    i missed flying spagghetti monsterism
  19. Palantir30

    Palantir30 Warlord

    Jan 28, 2005

    The problem is that you cant have that religion until you discover the Internet. That doesnt leave a lot of time to spread it around....

    Unless you have the Omnipotent Noodly Appendage to help...
  20. Arvedui

    Arvedui Great Prophet

    Jun 18, 2001
    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the satan of Judaism was the same one of Christianity, that is, a fallen angel, not just someone who tempts and gathers sinners in Hell, but someone who has defied God and been cast to Hell for this, a sinner himself.
    This vision is clearly seen in passages like Jobe, where Satan sort of challenges God to prove Jobe's worthiness.
    Unless, Xineoph, you are talking about Kabbalah, which has less of a antropomorphisized (phew!) vision of Satan. But is that the mainstream vision for most Jews?

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