Missing Major Religion
- Thread starter Houman
- Start date
Many modern scholars and historians now believe that Judaism wasn't really monotheistic until the Hellenistic era. There is evidence to suggest that before this time it held more in common with Greek polytheism, where Zeus is the king of the gods, than anything else, as there is evidence God was worshipped alongside Asurah and other regional gods.
Oh no.
No Zoroastrianism. Kill Confusianism. No Canadians. No trebuchets! Only Eurasian religions. I shall now uninstall the game and burn the CD. Then I shall jump out the window because my life is officially over.
Seriously, you, and all other people who complain about this ****, what difference does it make? It doesn't affect the gameplay in any way. In case you don't know, they can't include everything and please everyone.
This is my first ever rant, but I am just so sick of having people complain about this nonsense.
Rather than litter the forum with this crap, why don't you make a mod for yourself.
No Zoroastrianism. Kill Confusianism. No Canadians. No trebuchets! Only Eurasian religions. I shall now uninstall the game and burn the CD. Then I shall jump out the window because my life is officially over.
Seriously, you, and all other people who complain about this ****, what difference does it make? It doesn't affect the gameplay in any way. In case you don't know, they can't include everything and please everyone.
This is my first ever rant, but I am just so sick of having people complain about this nonsense.
Rather than litter the forum with this crap, why don't you make a mod for yourself.
zeeter said:
I went to KFC and ate a chicken. Kinda the same thing, right?
Japanrocks12
tired of being a man
I need Shintoism. Bias.
Zarathustra is the persian name for the person the greeks called Zoroaster. thus, either works for the name of the religion. As for it's age, He preached in ancient Iran around the same time that the ancient aryans were composing the vedas. You can tell because his avestan language is so close to the vedic sanskrit that you can pretty much lift entire passages from his book wholesale into sanskrit just by changing h to s in places. Zoroastrianism is a pastoral religion that was pretty much a counter to the nature of the vedic faith. Hindu Devas (or demi gods, beings of light) become Zoroastrian Daevas, or devils as seen in Judeo-christianity. Similarly, Asuras, or demons, became the angels of Zoroaster. It's a really interesting twist on the religions of the ancient indo-aryan people.
Incidentally, this religion was well and established when the Jews fled to babylon, and a lot of Jewish philosophy was morphed through this contact. but that's a lecture for another day. Suffice to say, Civ has enough religions, and should really allow players to give names to the religions they found =)
Incidentally, this religion was well and established when the Jews fled to babylon, and a lot of Jewish philosophy was morphed through this contact. but that's a lecture for another day. Suffice to say, Civ has enough religions, and should really allow players to give names to the religions they found =)
OP: Please do consider reading the religion section in the manual, especially the sidebar.
There were limited amount of religions they could put in, and they did not want to start any religious flamewars, hence they made all their effects essentially the same, while allowing for religion's effects on diplomacy.
As other have said, there are mods out there to add other religion. You might be able to craft your own.
There were limited amount of religions they could put in, and they did not want to start any religious flamewars, hence they made all their effects essentially the same, while allowing for religion's effects on diplomacy.
As other have said, there are mods out there to add other religion. You might be able to craft your own.
Carewolf
Gammelt røvhul
Xineoph said:
Maybe, but it certainly influenced Christianity. For instance it was three Zoroastrian holy men who came to Jesus and bearing gifts.
Even then Judaism imported several old persian myth such as the great flood and Noahs arch (often attributed to the flooding of the black sea which happened just before historic time).
Houman
TR Team Leader
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2002
- Messages
- 1,083
Like Shivam already explained Zarathustra is the Persian name, while Zoroaster is the Greek one.
I am mesmerized to see so many people actually know so much about this religion as well its influences, also the mature way of the followed discussion, at least at the beginning, was much appreciated. This is again the proof that most of CIV players are mature gamers.
@Thanks to those who mentioned the mod, I will have a look on it.
@Xineoph
Often it is quite unacceptable for us if we find out that the religion we believe in our whole life is just based mostly on another religion. Christianity for example is an almost 1:1 copy from Mithraism. And you don't need to believe me that Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrism, it is a fact. Read some books or listen to this BBC 4 radio interview between some great scholars.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20051222.shtml
Listen to it (6:04 - 10:17): http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/ram/inourtime_20051222.ram
A quick explanation about Zarathustranism, the Cosmic Dualism and the human choice. It also remind of Cyrus the Great, the Persian King, who freed Babylon and banned slavery. The Jews were free and their temples in Jerusalem were funded and were rebuilt by Cyrus the Great. The Jews mention Cyrus the Great as their Messias in the Torah. It was at this point where the Jews came for the first time in contact with the idea of an Universal God; that is there for the entire world and not just a piece of land like Israel.
Cyrus brought also the first human rights declaration on a cylinder that can be seen now in British Museum "The Forgotten Empire" exhibition.
(Timescale 9:20)
BBC4: How does Zoroastrism fit into Judaism?
Palmer: ..Well primarily through the experience of the exile when the Jews where exiled to Babylon in the 6th century and suffered really from a massive culture shock. They were suddenly a defeated nation, their land had gone and their notion that God was the God of that particular part of land is shattered. But what then happens, which I say is brilliant, is that they conclude that God is actually the God of the entire world, where many other people would have given up. And there are evidences in Britain; we have various religions have died in the prehistoric periods, where apparently it looks like the Gods have failed the people, the crops failed, there were climate changes...
What the Jews do is to say "No, maybe we were the ones that faulted here. Maybe we are the ones who have not thought big enough. You get this extraordinary expansion of thinking of a century of a tribal God to a universal God.
Kind Regards,
Houman
I am mesmerized to see so many people actually know so much about this religion as well its influences, also the mature way of the followed discussion, at least at the beginning, was much appreciated. This is again the proof that most of CIV players are mature gamers.
@Thanks to those who mentioned the mod, I will have a look on it.
@Xineoph
Often it is quite unacceptable for us if we find out that the religion we believe in our whole life is just based mostly on another religion. Christianity for example is an almost 1:1 copy from Mithraism. And you don't need to believe me that Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrism, it is a fact. Read some books or listen to this BBC 4 radio interview between some great scholars.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20051222.shtml
Listen to it (6:04 - 10:17): http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/ram/inourtime_20051222.ram
A quick explanation about Zarathustranism, the Cosmic Dualism and the human choice. It also remind of Cyrus the Great, the Persian King, who freed Babylon and banned slavery. The Jews were free and their temples in Jerusalem were funded and were rebuilt by Cyrus the Great. The Jews mention Cyrus the Great as their Messias in the Torah. It was at this point where the Jews came for the first time in contact with the idea of an Universal God; that is there for the entire world and not just a piece of land like Israel.
Cyrus brought also the first human rights declaration on a cylinder that can be seen now in British Museum "The Forgotten Empire" exhibition.
(Timescale 9:20)
BBC4: How does Zoroastrism fit into Judaism?
Palmer: ..Well primarily through the experience of the exile when the Jews where exiled to Babylon in the 6th century and suffered really from a massive culture shock. They were suddenly a defeated nation, their land had gone and their notion that God was the God of that particular part of land is shattered. But what then happens, which I say is brilliant, is that they conclude that God is actually the God of the entire world, where many other people would have given up. And there are evidences in Britain; we have various religions have died in the prehistoric periods, where apparently it looks like the Gods have failed the people, the crops failed, there were climate changes...
What the Jews do is to say "No, maybe we were the ones that faulted here. Maybe we are the ones who have not thought big enough. You get this extraordinary expansion of thinking of a century of a tribal God to a universal God.
Kind Regards,
Houman
MRM
Prince
Zoroastrism is not in civ4 because it don't play a role today - like many other religions too - so would it be a good idea to add a few more religions and add a system that allows religions to fade away if they are not supported enough ? Would that relect religons in the history somehow better ? There would be some kind of natural selection of religions during one game - can this be worked out that it add someting to gameplay ?
romelus
NUCULAR!
bleh all the religions already in the game are similar enough as is. it's just a name thing really. i'd rather have fewer religions but more differences between them
Palantir30
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2005
- Messages
- 241
panzooka said:
The problem is that you cant have that religion until you discover the Internet. That doesnt leave a lot of time to spread it around....
Unless you have the Omnipotent Noodly Appendage to help...
Xineoph said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the satan of Judaism was the same one of Christianity, that is, a fallen angel, not just someone who tempts and gathers sinners in Hell, but someone who has defied God and been cast to Hell for this, a sinner himself.
This vision is clearly seen in passages like Jobe, where Satan sort of challenges God to prove Jobe's worthiness.
Unless, Xineoph, you are talking about Kabbalah, which has less of a antropomorphisized (phew!) vision of Satan. But is that the mainstream vision for most Jews?
