MLDR003 - NOW in the big D

Checking in. I like the hill 2 tiles northwest of NP's suggestion. It has the added avantage of water. Its still 2 early 2 tell but those points together might make a fine choke point. The AI sees all the map and tends to take the safest and most direct route. I'm guessing that Babs will be coming over the mountains.

@Belisar, perhaps just take it. ChrTh has asked for a skip/swap.
 
Originally posted by Northern Pike
Assuming the Babylonians really are to our south and southeast, should we found our first city on the hill three tiles south of Istanbul, strictly on tactical grounds? A walled city here could slaughter a lot of bowmen, while also giving Istanbul some cover.

The idea is not bad, but we will have to guard our cities north sufficiently.
See: Sirian, AWM
fifth picture to demonstrate what I mean. I have observed this in my own games, the AI bypasses strong points and advances to weak targets.
This does not mean that I'm against that location ( I like the site), just wanted to point out that we can't rely solely on a tactical outpost.

An additional suggestion:
We could place at least our first few cities strictly on sites 3 tiles away from each other. I found this extremly useful in GM-2 and in my own AWE game on a pangea to facilitate shuffling our defense units between our cities in one turn towards sites were they are needed most.
I will post a pic.
 
Ok, here we go:

Preturn: Change settler to rax. We need vet spears to survive, the Babs will come
with Bowmen soon.
Thinking of MLD002, this is hopefully not "Revenge of the Babs" ;)

IT: The warrior in the east loses agaisnt our warrior, 2 HP left.
There are 3 Bab warriors in the southern mountains.

3000: I try to block them a little with our southern warrior in the rough terrain,
every turn I can delay them is a turn more to build up our defense.

IT: The 3 Bab warriors advance towards Istanbul.

2950: Istanbul grows, lux to 10%.
I move the warriors on a hile tile and behind the river, on forest.

IT: The Babs move on the open ground.

2900: I block them with our warriors:

IT: And the result of the battle: they attack our warrior,
across the river and on forest. First we get veteran, then elite! :D

mld01.gif


A Barb conscript shows up NW.

2850: rax completed, spear started.

IT: The next Barb conscript shows up NW

2800: I send one warrior on the hills NW, two guard Istanbul and
the elite is heading south on th mountain.

IT: The Barb impales himself on our hill-warrior, the other moves towards Istanbul.

2750: Istanbul grows to size 4, spear next turn.

IT: And finally the second Barb commits suicide at Istanbul.
I like the 'tactical' defenses :D
Meanwhile, a new Bab warrior shows up south.

2670: Vet spear completed, settler started.


2630: -

IT: Another Barb conscript shows up in the west.

2610: I move our west-warrior one tile.

IT: The Barb approaches our warrior

2550: I try to block him, hoping he will attack at the hill.

Only 10 turns this time :D


Notes: We havn't met anyone else but with all the Barbs and the Babs south
even a single warrior could have been the difference between win or loss.
On the other hand we need contacts soon. The settler will complete in 2,
now we have to talk about sites.

Important: Our elite warrior, fortified south should withdraw
if seriouly threatened, we can use him for leader-fishing.

Here is the pic, all red circles are sites were units arrive from Istanbul in one turn without beeing exposed.

mld02.gif


And the save, good luck we will need it. :)

SAVE 2550BC
 
Belisar, good job on absorbing the initial units and getting the RAX in with only a ten trun delay on the settler.

On the placement of the cities. I have nothing against places the cities in a defensive position if it is purely for that reason alone. I actually do a denser city build (not ics) in my private games simple becuase the cities spend more at at or below the size of 12. For AW games this can be a crititcal difference.

I will still refrain from any other comments on the map as I still have a little more knowledge than what the current game map shows.

Don't forget that we want Cats as soon as possible if not sooner. We need 5-6 cats in every city that is exposed to attack. Closer city builds will also help with the shuffling of these crittical units. Just as the AI will bypass a strong position, they will also bypass a city that has enough cats in it.

Use of the rivers and hills for the placement of the first cities is strongly recommended.

Our first job is defense and then slowly building up our offense.

NorthernPike
Belisar
CtrTh (up?)
Coffee (on deck?)
Arizona_Steve (chomping at the bit.
Meldor

Coffee, If you can play and post tonight, go ahead. CtrTh indicated that tomorrow was the earliest he could go.
 
Originally posted by Belisar
I have observed this in my own games, the AI bypasses strong points and advances to weak targets.
[/B]

The trick is to set up the strong locations so that the the AI has to go directly past the strong targets to get to the weak targets, i.e. set up a gauntlet. The AI is rarely intelligent enough to handle avoiding one.

Coffee can go before me if he's able; however if he can't finish before tomorrow night he should probably just wait for me to go.
 
Yeah, if we know precisely where they advance we can set up such traps (Maybe the hill directly south that was suggested from NP, but we would have to guard the mountain tiles as well to avoid huge stacks of enemy units on it). Even if they bypass it, we can knock them down with cats and finish them off.
 
2550 BC - 0
Nothin to do. :) Why do we have diety barbs?
12t to the wheel & 8g. :hmm:

ibt -> meet India at 2 cows, Babylon on the move.

2510 BC - 1
Turn science down.
Trade India Masonary +3gpt -> Alpabet.
Start 40t run on Math. Sorry for the veto. Its either that or 19t for the wheel at max.
This gets us to math 19t sooner and a potential trade. We need to meet the neighbors.

ibt -> Babs avoids our elite warrior fotified on the mountain.

2470 BC - 2
Istanbul settler -> warrior, just in case

2430 BC - 3
2 warriors block my settler moves.
Have a bowman lingering.

2390 BC - 4
Warriors bypass my spear/warrior/settler trio.
The AI is playing better chess than me.
Move settler/spear to forested plains tile, fortify reg warrior to attract some attention.
Move worker to hill to attract some attention and road.

2350 BC - 5
Bab warriors impale themselves on our fortified warrior -> now a vet
Lingering Bab bowman becomes confused and fortifies.
Istanbul warrior -> settler, I'm going to run a farmers gambit at the 2 cows.
I'm really at odds about the next settlement. Np's site is the best defensivly and has the best spacing between the 2 cows site. The flood plain 1 tile east will give control over the desert tiles and if the mountain near Istanbul is fortified total control over that area. I don't like the defense option, it might cost the farmers gambits run. We need cities etc., goin to NP city.

2310 BC - 6
Edrine settled -> spear, workers will have to wait.

2270 BC - 7
A 2nd bowman approaches Edrine.

2230 BC - 8
Now 3 bows, they bypass Edrine.

2190 BC - 9
1 bow impales on our vet warrior -> elite
Move a 3rd warrior to Istanbul.

2150 BC - 10
Istanbul settler -> spear


Mldr2150.jpg



The Game
 
Got it. I agree with the Math gambit.

I have a new motto (and I owe it all to MLDR2): You can't spell Capitulate without Catapult :hammer:
 
Ok, it seems that we now have knowledge of all of the map that I had seen in looking at the starting position. So, now that I can say something, here it goes.

It looks as if the Babs might be on a spit of land below us. It would be to our great advantage if we bottle them up. One city west of Edrine and another to the east may bottle them up and not let them get past us. It would also help to capture some early slaves to do some work. Of course, this will only work until MM comes out and then they will do an end around.

It would also be nice to start building up some archers or chariots to start hitting back in about 50 turns.

It would be nice to get a temple in Edrine to prepare for mounted troops. We shouldn't miss walls and Raxs either.

We have a good start so far. Remember we can't let the AI out expand us by too much or we will be in trouble.

NorthernPike
Belisar
Coffee
CtrTh (up for sure)
Arizona_Steve (It's killing him but he is finally on deck!)
Meldor
 
Nice turns, Belisar and Coffee.

The Indians have Writing, and will give us all their gold (181) for communications with the Babylonians. The downside is that once they're in touch with the Babylonians, they may well join the war against us. But they're probably going to meet the Babylonians within a few turns anyway, so we might as well take the money.
 
Very good turns, Coffee. I was not sure whether to change our research project, but it could be the right move.
I think we should settle the high-food regions in the west first,
then the gold hill to the east.
And we also need more vet-spears. :)
 
Originally posted by Northern Pike
Nice turns, Belisar and Coffee.

The Indians have Writing, and will give us all their gold (181) for communications with the Babylonians. The downside is that once they're in touch with the Babylonians, they may well join the war against us. But they're probably going to meet the Babylonians within a few turns anyway, so we might as well take the money.
It may be possible to make a deal get and embassy and bring them in on our side. We will need to have the AIs fighting to keep both their tech and expansion slowed. This early we may not be able to buy them into the fight.
 
Turn 0 -- 2150 BC

If memory serves me correctly, Coffee followed me most of the time in MLDR2, and kept changing my builds...vengeance is mine :mwaha:
;)

Erdrine switched to Rax .. too much playing with Lee, I reckon -- no regular troops!

I give Communications to the Babs to India for their treasury (181 gold)

I'm really tempted to send that settler S to form a locked border with Edrine, but we really need the settler factory.

Turn 1 -- 2110 BC
Babs are advancing ... I move Elite Warrior back to Istanbul

Turn 2 -- 2070 BC
Assault on both cities about to come ...

IT:
One Bab Bowman dies attacking Istanbul (vs. Elite Warrior), other beats Regular Warrior. Bowman bypasses Edrine...

Turn 3 -- 2030 BC
Bursa is built. Warrior is ordered.

IT:
Bab Bowman kills Elite Warrior in Istanbul.

Turn 4 -- 1990 BC
:sleep:

IT:
Bab Bowman kills Regular Warrior in Istanbul

Turn 5 -- 1950 BC
Spearman completes in Istanbul. This is going to be scary next turn...I change Edrine back to Spear, because I think we're going to need it.

IT:
Bowmen are scared off by Spear!

Turn 6 -- 1910 BC
:sleep:

Turn 7 -- 1870 BC
The Indians say that we are backwards...and they're right! They're up The Wheel, Writing, IW, and Myst on us. I buy IW for 160 gold. There's Iron just S of the Bursa-Istanbul road (a colony would grab it)

Turn 8 -- 1830 BC
Edrine Spear > Spear
Bursa Warrior > Granary (vetoable)

IT: Warrior attacks Istanbul, cut down without loss

Turn 9 -- 1790 BC
Istanbul Spear > Archer
Rome completes Colossus

IT: Attack on Istanbul: Elite Bowman kills Spear after getting redlined :aargh:, another Bowman dies on Spear.

Turn 10 -- 1750 BC
:sleep:

Guys, our situation may be untenable. Babs are sending a chain of fighters at us:
MLDR3-1750BC.jpg


Help us Arizona Steve, you're our only HOPE!
 
Guys, our situation may be untenable. Babs are sending a chain of fighters at us:
Early Deity fight is bad enough, but you are fighting a Golden Age civ. The stream will slow - the question will be can it stop in time?
 
Two things -

Maybe take a chance and use a spear to kill the archer outside of Istanbul. It would have a turn leeway to get back to the city.

Second, switch Istanbul from high food to high shield to build up some spears. It maybe better to scarifice some growth here fro immediate safety.

Was there any cahnce to get writting and get the Indians in on our side. The one thing that will end this game early is a dogpile on us before we have a chance to protect ourselves. However, even this can be weathered a la DefNat.

Good job holding the lines. Defense will get easier once cats arrive and the Babs get out of their mostly wasted GA. They are eight turns (by my counting) into the GA and so we have about 12+ more of danger.

Restoring the proper turn order:
NorthernPike
CtrTh
Belisar
Coffee
Arizona_Steve (Finally up!)
Meldor (on deck)
 
I will have a look at the save when I'm at home.
Nobody said this would be easy or not map(and/or opponent)-dependent.

EDIT: Cross-post with Meldor
 
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