MM1: Defiant Sid.

[Mark1031]

We can accept straight peace. Go ahead and play 2 turns if you like. If we keep the advanced civs @ war it is almost as good as pillaging to slow down their research. They will build tons of units and wreck their economy. Although they don't know how to use these units for an effective sea assult. I would do this with the tech leader America and maybe a couple of others. I would get an Army on the Jap/Egypt continent. You can do this in our territory after peace with Japs. We should try to get zerks and then try to take this continent IMO.

Be careful about WW it would be nice to stay republic so if we don't lose to many battles or allow attacks on our defensive units we should be OK.

 

[Aggie]

akots, I think we are doing VERY well at this point. I don't understand why you are so negative. We are not too far behind (this being Sid) and berzerks are not too far away (giving us a GA!). I don't think that we will face infantry immediately. And probably also not rifles eveywhere. And if we have to face rifles, well it's 6-6.

 

[akots]

Aggie, you are very optimistic. I'm naturally pessimistic and regret greatly of lost opportunities. But tend to forget it very soon because start to worry about new lost opportunities. There are so many of them lost after all.

OK, I'll try to play 20 turns then during the next 2 days.

 

[akots]

Preturn check. Cannot say we are in good shape. On the small island there are only archers. Hope that enemies do not unload some units there. Cannot make peace with Persia, Zulu, Mongols, America, Arabs, and Egypt because of defiant rules. Can though make peace with Japan. Peace made trading Engineering +56gpt for Feudalism. Army loaded with elite sword (with *) and transported to our territory overseas. Press Enter.

IBT. Nothing much. Just ships sailing and sailing. Egypt lands knight and some other units. Oslo builds market. Starting on archers. America is building Newton’s.

[1] 500AD. America is in IA.

[2] 510AD. Troops unloaded and army ready to be filled. IBT. Japan declared war to Egypt. Mongols are in IA as well.

[3] 520AD. Japan has Invention. It is steal time apparently. We steal Invention! Each upgrade to zerk is 150g, btw. Production switched to zerks everywhere. Game saved. Army (2 pikes + sword) was sent to march for Egypt. Apparently Japan would ask us out. Do we then agree and humbly return to our small chunk of land or be defiant and independent and wage a war against evil Tokugawa? This would ruin our reputation but do we really care? There is not much to trade in this game anyhow but techs during peace negotiations. IMHO, lets kick them hard and pillage all over the place. Please speak up of what to do, I’m holding the save.

There is another issue on the agenda. Do we settle some towns on the Japanese continent? We cannot protect them properly but can launch amphibious assaults from galleys against offending Japanese troops. Also, what to build during GA? Zerks and galleys? Another problem is how to transport army to America. There is little possibility for us to sail there with galleys. It would also be very nice to capture Washington somehow though it seems barely possible even if we throw everything in there.

 

[Aggie]

I don't see anything about us having to deny the request of Japan. AFAIK we are allowed to comply to their wishes. This could mean that we can't reach Egypt by the way...

About what to build: I would build berzerks and galleys only in cities that have all infra. But I would use the GA to build infra in other places (markets, courthouses, aquaducts, harbors).

I don't know if it makes a lot of sense to build a city on the Japanese continent. We can do it, but I'm afraid that it will become a prime target. Otoh we have to expand. I'm very interested in the POW's of the other players.

 

[akots]

I don't see anything about us having to deny the request of Japan. AFAIK we are allowed to comply to their wishes. This could mean that we can't reach Egypt by the way...

We are allowed to comply, certainly. But do we want to? There is a little conflict between RBC rules and defiant variant in this case. The spirit of defiant variant demands us to declare. The RBC rules call for withdrawal. But we can declare as well. Would just trash the reputation. Though this rep thing is of no greater use in this particular game so far.

IMHO, if we can assemble another army and build a city on our own territory on Japanese continent under the protection of this army, chances are the city would not be attacked. However, I'm not sure. It would be really nice to have a canal city so that we can get to inner Japanese cities on the lake (sea) with zerks if this is possible.

 

[Aggie]

I am sure that an army will be attacked when it is positioned in a city. Archers would attack a Modern Armor army when it is located in a city. I've seen it happen (in AG3). It's the worst place to keep and army.

 

[Mark1031]

Is the GL coastal? Maybe we should try to take it with Zerks.

 

[Aggie]

Washington is non-coastal. But tbh I'm getting weary of these TGL capture plans in a lot of my SG's. It was needed in AG12, but I highly doubt the value here. You have to sacrifice a lot for such a plan, like postponing building banks and getting better ships (which can carry armies).

Mark, could you answer Akots question regarding a possible boot order of the Aztecs?

 

[Mark1031]

Sorry, I didn't notice the question. We do not have to force war, we can agree to leave. However, no ROP deals allowed. As far as the GL forget it. If it was a costal city it might have been worth it. OK as far as what to do next that is difficult. The AI will attack Army in city no matter how bad the odds. I'd say we have the following goals. 1) to expand our territory and get some lux. Preferably by going for useful Jap territory. 2) to slow down the tech leaders so we can catch up. 3) to get Banks. For goal 1: I would not ruin our rep just yet. I suspect that Japan might be bought back in by someone anyway. And it will take awhile to build up forces. I would say that we might consider taking back the third island that we lost earlier and maybe some other weakly defended outposts with zerks while waiting for the Jap deal to expire or they declare. This will get us extra cities and potential SP. I think we will need muskets and cavs. As soon as Japs declare or in 20-turns we first weaken Japs by burning down a couple of major costal cities. Pillage an area around our territory, then plant a city and rush rax/walls and load it with pikes/muskets For 2) I would Keep the Americans in AW state. For 3/techs in general, we will need to ossilate into peace and get something out of it. Maybe if we take some Egyptian cities we can get something from them. Lots of possibilities but I would focus on weak targets until we get built up.

Alternate plan. Slow down big guy America by burning a few cities. Negative: might lose a fair number of ships unless make peace all around.

 

[akots]

OK, let me ask it straight. Do I 1) trash the rep and declare war to Japan or 2)do I withdraw the loaded army?

Please answer 1) or 2) and I would like to know the opinion of anarres and homeyg as well. I've asked a question so please answer it. I've read through the posts of Aggie and Mark and cannot understand the answer.

@Mark: I wodn't even try to play on Deity or Sid with this strategy that you suggested. It might be good for Monarch or Emperor. And is definitely good for Regent and below.

 

[Aggie]

2) for me. I hate trashing a rep.

 

[anarres]

2) IMO. Deliberately trashing our rep on SID feels somehow not quite right to me. At least not this early.

 

[Mark1031]

I vote no to trash. We don't have to anyway as we don't have enough troops for assault yet. Just Keep army in our territory on Jap island until we are ready. As far as strategy. Arathorn has won a Sid AW with these map conditions and I have a game going that I will probably win. Keeping AW when you own an island is quite doable even on Sid and quite productive. I'm in 17-- AD and the AIs are all still in the MA. In fact AW might be easier than the varient we are playing but you must get the GL.

 

[akots]

OK, point taken. So what should I do then? How to build more cities? We are being choked with our own trebuchets and units. How to attack Egypt or somebody else? Do we want GA now or later on? I can certainly do whatever I feel is right but it is SG after all and it might be better to discuss. Besides, I cannot play today anyhow.

 

[Aggie]

I would first fight off the invaders and get us in a GA. Imho it is too dangerous out there to sail to Egypt now. We need more ships and more berzerks. I keep saying that 90 gpt isn't that bad.

The fact that you want to play 20 turns makes it a different story. That is a relatively long time in a SG. You may want to post a turnlog after 10 turns, so that we can discuss tactics. As in a normal situation.

 

[Mark1031]

Yes I would take the GA as soon as it is available and use it to build up Zerks and boats, a few Pikes and 2-3 settlers. Then I would go for the Arab/Persian Island that was ours previously.

 

[Aggie]

I would try to cross Japan with the army. Why not try that? That army is not going to get better in time. If we get kicked out, well that's a shame. But keeping it on neutral terrain doesn't sound good to me.

We could go for that island that used to be ours, but zerks appear to be more useful to destroy core coastal cities. Are we able to hold the remote island without a lot of troops?

 

[Mark1031]

Well we want to start spreading out and I think we wouldn't need to devote too many troops to that island and it should be relatively easy pickins'. After 20 turns we make peace with Egypt and take out Japan.

 

[akots]

Yep, going for the Arabs seems to be a good choice. They are not supposed to have many units. And attacks on these cities would not be very fierce. Persia is not very advanced as well. I'll try to play the remaining 7 turns today and post a log.