MM1: Defiant Sid.

[akots]

Cool, AW again. If America only recently built US, this mean that they are probably only around Fascism in tech race or maximum Electricity, may be Replaceable Part but unlikely. Biggest concern is that US greatly increases culture in Washington. We have to raze the city in anticipation of 20K victory IMvHO.

 

[Aggie]

I agree with that, like I said. But I still don't like the idea that we also use it as a TGL slingshot. But at this moment we still have a number of techs to get before we have to make a decision.

 

[Mark1031]

I'm not sure I understabd your reasoning Aggie for not capturing the GL. If it's that you think we cannot get an army safely onto the American Island then I fear all is lost anyway. I don't see it getting any easier. The longer we wait the tech difference will either stay the same meaning that by the time we have say nationalism then America will have tanks or flight, or more likely the tech diff will get worse. Once they have flight they will bombard the army and we have no hope. There is no significant increase in offensive force over Zerks until tanks and defensive force till nationalism so I don't know why we should wait. If you agree that we must take washington them I'm not sure what point/event/tech we are waiting for. We can have 40 pikes and 20 galley quite soon and that should be more than enough to establish an Army. A 4 man pike army should not be attacked until flight. I hate to say it but I think this is realistically our best if not only hope, but also quite doable I should think.

BTW: Annares is up but we should decide on a plan first. I think we have a reasonable but not huge window for getting the pike army up in America. If we don't take this path I'd like to discuss what the other option is and how it will lead to a victory.

 

[Aggie]

My point is that I can agree with razing Washington because it is getting to a 20K fast. But when I look at AG12 I see that we stopped doing anything called progress for too long to reach this one and only goal: getting TGL. I see that we can be quicker here -maybe even before the lack of progress is going to hurt-, but we shouldn't automatically think that our army is safe on an island with only one civ.

 

[Mark1031]

Well I know that AG12 left a bad taste in my mouth for the GL as only goal but I think the situation is different here. I do not think anything will happen to a 4 or even 3 pike army before flight. At least I've haven't seen it happen in a similar situation. One problem is getting it there. We will have to go through Mongol waters without a ROP as it is against the defiant rules. I'd say we land on the distant silks near NY. This means 3 turns in Mongol waters and one in American. I think we can do this as we don't have to declare until the 2nd turn and will probably only lose a couple of galleys. It would be nice to take out mongols 1st but this would probably cost a fair amount and result in war with Zulu's so I don't see that as a good option. We will need an fleet of regular galleys to be covered with 5 or 6 vet galleys. If we sell the harbor in Trondheim and get it to 15 spt we can have a fleet of 15 ready to go in 30 turns. If we can have 29 pikes and an empty army by then we can go. and land in less than 40 turns. I think this will be sufficient. We then pillage and bring up Zerks/trebs and maybe another empty army when they are ready to take DC. In the mean time we would not be doing nothing but would be consolidating Jap Island and fending off other attacks. Anyway this is the plan I would advocate at the moment unless I hear something more plausible. I think this would get us to America faster than trying to get to Magnetism and in addition the value of the techs we get would probably be about 80K gp.

 

[akots]

@Aggie: So, what do you suggest?

IIRC, you did not want to build TGL. Now, you don't want to capture TGL. We can try for Domination but will apparently fail to do it rapidly enough.

 

[Aggie]

IIRC, you did not want to build TGL.

You remember incorrectly. I never said such a thing. Why would I?

Now, you don't want to capture TGL. We can try for Domination but will apparently fail to do it rapidly enough.

I am not so confident that we will succeed as others seem to be. That doesn't mean that I am opposed to taking and then abandoning Washington (as I said a number of times already). But I like Mark1031's plan and I want to go for it, if only as a learning experience. I want to see if a pike army can survive vs an industrial civ with -probably- artillery. I love to be proven wrong about this one. If we act fast enough there's no reason NOT to go for a TGL gambit. I have said that as well. Acting fast enough is the key.

But for now we have to deal with the Mongols and the last cities of Japan. After that we probably have to defend ourselves against the powerful navy of America. I haven't forgotten our last war vs them. They had A LOT of frigates.

 

[akots]

Most of their atry should stay in cities fortified. Hence, if we don't end the turn move of the army near a city, it might be OK. Hope they don't get bombers. Hope they don't have rubber. Hope they don't have oil. Hence, we battle mostly with rifles and this can be accomplished. Once we pillage roads on Amercian continent, it would be easier. They won't have luxuries and would stop research.

American navy as well as Mongol might be powerful, so it would be nice to have lots of galleys especially veterans for cover up and regulars for transporting. Well, it looks scary indeed. Better leave them alone. May be they revolt to fascism and stop researching. Still Washington is a good candidate for 20K victory.

 

[Aggie]

akots, is this reversed psychology and do you intend to get me to tell you that things don't have to be that bad?

The Mongols are weaker than we are. They shouldn't be an issue. The Americans are constantly at war and therefore will lose enough troops. We shouldn't count on them crippling themselves with a massive amount of units. Instead we should count on them expanding. They will probably be our biggest enemy in a domination race. So we have to face them sooner or later. The do have a small home continent and in fact they may just as well lack a few vital resources.

I don't mind a war on their territory as suggested by Mark1031, as long as we make sure that Japan is reduced to OCC (giving us three techs) and Mongolian Darhan is also removed from OUR 3rd island. That shouldn't take more than 10 turns at most.

When we decide to capture Washington and raze the rest of the American island, we should take into account:
- a proper defense of our three islands. We are defiant and can expect a war any time. This means that a good portion of the troops needs to stay home. Especially the former Japanese island is big. Obviously the armies have to since they can't be shipped in galleys.
- expansion by settling the 3rd island (former Japan).

 

[akots]

Yep, reverse phychology it is!

 

[anarres]

I've been reading this thread, even if I haven't had time to comment recently.

Unfortunately I'm up in AG11 at the same time as here (I think I'm up right?), is there a chance of swapping with someone?

Edit: I just checked and I'm not up yet in MM1

Am I up here or am I totally losing it?

 

[Mark1031]

you are up here. But could switch with Akots if it's a problem.

 

[akots]

@Anarres: You are up. I'll wait some 24 hours and will play then. But IMO, you better play.

 

[anarres]

Yep, I can play some tonight.

 

[Samson]

lurker's comment:
Great game you are playing here, well done all.
I was just wondering why you have not considered getting an army on the merkin continent by capturing a city with zerks, making the army there and then abandoning it? So you never have to face the full force of a railroaded continent.


[EDIT] Happy now?

 

[anarres]

if_only_we_were, did you know that you can use [delurk][/delurk] tag now and it puts your comments like this:

lurker's comment: my delurk comment

 

[Aggie]

But it's a great lurker's comment. An obvious way to get the armies filled up, but I didn't think of it. Thanks

 

[Mark1031]

No capturing foreign cities or demanding them in diplomacy. No foreign workers merged into existing cities.

OOPs I forgot to read my own rules or actually Arathorn's rules. Well this makes the GL capture moot. Sorry I should have noticed this. I still think we need to take out Washington ASAP before they get too far along It just means we won't get the techs Also mean we should get Banking ASAP. This makes things a lot tougher which is what we wanted right . Well we need to pointy our way along, at least we will have trading partners.

 

[Aggie]

Wow. We almost broke a defiant rule Well I still think that we should go after America first, unless someone comes with a grand plan. It makes the 'capture city and create an army there' routine also impossible.

 

[Mark1031]

I'd be willing to do a soft capture rule like in 1/5CC where you can capture and abandon by end of turn if nobody objects. I really just like the novelty of Zerk capture and would like to give it a try.