mm11: Persian Pandemonium AWN 1CC

[GreyFox]

Just to make sure we are all on the same page, I will advocate not taking Monty out so fast ... just a couple of immortals suppressing his workers and Settlers will do. IMHO, we should not waste time focusing to take out a single AI. We need to spread our Corps of Immortats to all AI as soon as possible. Once all AI's are under suppression, then we start cranking out swords and catapults to take them out one by one.

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[Corbeau]

::sigh:: I should have waited. Both for comments, and for Monte. Ugh.

Basic rundown:

I chopped out some quick Immortals and supressed Monte, killing his expansion settler. I sent our next couple Immortals over and made an attack on Tenoch with the odds favoring us. But you know how that goes.

The next player should be able to take Tenoch quickly (probably two turns, if Monte doesn't somehow pop another Archer), but I'm afraid that I may have slowed us down quite a bit with my risky early try. Sorry guys.

On the bright side, Tenoch is at size 7 and now working our gold mine while cranking Immortals every couple turns.

The save:

 

[Corbeau]

Specifically, we lost two Immortals and killed two Archers. I actually had a turn-by-turn report, but feel too down to go through and put it into the computer.

 

[GreyFox]

Ok, got it, playing tonight.

Couldn't figure out how bad the situation based on your brief report... you sounded all doomy and groomy, but the fact that we only lost two immortals doesn't seems as grave as you made it sound ... ... anyway, I will know when I look at the save tonight (that is, my night ... guess it will be most of you guys' morning).

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[Corbeau]

I guess part of my dismay was that the turnset was going so well until I mucked it up on the last few turns. We aren't toast, but we are slower than we would have been had I gone with pure supression like you suggested.

 

[GreyFox]

From the Research Department

but no iron near us ...

a bit , went for masonry, then go for Metal Casting (keep thinking catapults need masonry and machinery )


From the Battle Frontlines

Small Skirmishes

Turn 72 (1450 BC)
Immortal defeats (3.44/4): Spanish Warrior <- killed a wandering warrior north of our city

Turn 77 (1325 BC)
Scout loses to: Spanish Warrior (0.20/2) <- landed our scouts on the worng tile!

Turn 78 (1300 BC)
Immortal defeats (2.08/4): American Warrior <- killed wandering warrior

Turn 87 (1075 BC)
Immortal defeats (1.44/4): Spanish Warrior
Immortal defeats (3.28/4): Spanish Warrior
Kills two more wandering warriors

Turn 88 (1050 BC)
Immortal defeats (3.12/4): Aztec Archer <- the archer in Monty's city got tired of turtling and attempts to break free, but in fact he is just tired of living


Razing City

Attack of the 2nd Spanish city begins ...

Geez, lost (retreats) with that kind of odds!

Finally, the next turn:

Whew ... they survived, and got a free woker

Turn 87 (1075 BC)
Immortal defeats (1.96/4): Spanish Warrior

Turn 88 (1050 BC)
Immortal defeats (2.04/4): Spanish Archer
Razed Barcelona


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[GreyFox]

After Turns Notes

Some random plans for our immortals:

The siege of spain:

The enemies:

The log:

Spoiler :

Turn 70 (1500 BC)
Persepolis finishes: Immortal

Turn 71 (1475 BC)
Persepolis begins: Immortal
Tech learned: Iron Working

Turn 72 (1450 BC)
Research begun: Archery
Immortal promoted: Flanking I
Immortal defeats (3.44/4): Spanish Warrior
Persepolis finishes: Immortal

Turn 73 (1425 BC)
Persepolis begins: Immortal
Immortal promoted: Combat I

Turn 74 (1400 BC)

Turn 75 (1375 BC)
Tech learned: Archery
Persepolis finishes: Immortal

Turn 76 (1350 BC)
Research begun: Masonry
Persepolis begins: Immortal
Persepolis finishes: Immortal

Turn 77 (1325 BC)
Persepolis begins: Archer
Immortal promoted: Combat I
Persepolis finishes: Archer
Scout loses to: Spanish Warrior (0.20/2)

Turn 78 (1300 BC)
Persepolis begins: Immortal
Immortal defeats (2.08/4): American Warrior

Turn 79 (1275 BC)
Immortal promoted: Medic I
Persepolis finishes: Immortal

Turn 80 (1250 BC)
Persepolis begins: Immortal
Immortal promoted: Combat I

Turn 81 (1225 BC)
Tech learned: Masonry

Turn 82 (1200 BC)
Research begun: Metal Casting
Persepolis finishes: Immortal

Turn 83 (1175 BC)
Persepolis begins: Immortal
Immortal promoted: Combat I

Turn 84 (1150 BC)
Persepolis finishes: Immortal

Turn 85 (1125 BC)
Persepolis begins: Immortal

Turn 86 (1100 BC)

Turn 87 (1075 BC)
Immortal defeats (1.44/4): Spanish Warrior
Immortal defeats (3.28/4): Spanish Warrior
Immortal promoted: Combat I
Immortal defeats (1.96/4): Spanish Warrior
Persepolis finishes: Immortal

Turn 88 (1050 BC)
Persepolis begins: Immortal
Immortal promoted: Combat II
Immortal promoted: Combat II
Immortal defeats (2.04/4): Spanish Archer
Razed Barcelona
Immortal promoted: Medic I
Immortal defeats (3.12/4): Aztec Archer

Turn 89 (1025 BC)
Persepolis finishes: Immortal
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 90 (1000 BC)
Persepolis begins: Immortal

And finally, the save: (Shinku is UP for 20 turns)

 

[shinku]

Got it, will play and post shortly

 

[shinku]

1000 BC - Inherited Turn
MM Persepolis to advoid growth : we don't want angry citizens eating our food surplus since we don't need to whip our couple turns Immortals

980 BC - Turn 92
Monty converts to Judaism, so maybe he'll send his fanatics archers defend the Holy City from the pagan envahissors

940 BC - Turn 94
Kill an American Warrior.
Now I understand the full advantage of ignoring terrain movement costs

920 BC - Turn 95
Spot an English Warrior north of Madrid. May his soul rests in peace.

900 BC - Turn 96
I foresee Mansa's Skirmishers will be annoying
Spot Djenne, one a hill south of Madrid protected by a Skirmisher and a Warrior

860 BC - Turn 98
Monty sends two of his archers on an immortal outside Tenochtitlan and loses.
We kill an english scout

760 BC - Turn 103
Tiwanaku, the second town of Huayna, is razed

700 BC - Turn 106
Monty sends another archer to his death
Huayna sends two archers and a settler away. Our Immortals are on the move
Izzy sends two archers towards Persepolis, easily intercepted. That leaves two unpromoted archers in Madrid.
Kill a malian wandering warrior.
Spot english borders.

680 BC - Turn 107
The two incan archers are no more, we gain a worker !

660 BC - Turn 108
Kill a Quechua

640 BC - Turn 109
Discover London, *only* three archers with one promoted

620 BC - Turn 110
Kill an archer outside of Washington

600 BC - Turn 111
Mansa try to kill our immortal outside of Timbuktu with a skirmisher, we win
Washington now have an Axeman in his capital, I don't know where his metal come from

Metal Casting due in 5, I worked on a road from Persepolis to the center of our pangeae to speed our immortals

We should focus on Victoria & Washington, while looking on Mansa. Isabella, Huayna and Monty are at our mercy.

Sorry lurkers, not much to see

Eggs, onto you ! Twenty turns of goodness await !

 

[Eggs]

Ok , will play today

 

[GreyFox]

Looking good, Shinku! So I see we are suppressing all the AI civs?

If that is so, we can take out time and research captapults, and kill them one by one. So what if we con't have copper/iron?

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[shinku]

I didn't take the risk of loosing a bunch of immortals on their defenses to wipe them out right away. We have the upper hand, and while we won't be attacking with swordsmen, catapults will be enough to hammer them, since they shouldn't have anything else than archers and warriors (and UUs) to defend with.

 

[Eggs]

580 BC
Immortal in Washington dies to Axeman.
Immortal done, start a new one.
Notice that our research will stall very soon since we’re making 21 commerce and our army is costing 18. 24 gold in treasury.
Decide to take down Madrid since there are a lot of immortals there already and it has little defense.

560 BC
Move Immortals so that 7 of them are right next to Madrid, 6 of them on the right side of the river.
Keep making Immortals.
Use workers to build roads through the center of the map.
Use Immortal near London to pillage. Nothing to be pillaged elsewhere, although we no longer have immortals near Washington.

540 BC
Immortal near Aztecs kills 2 archers.
Madrid is defended by only 2 archers and only has 40% defense, so attack with our Immortals.
Raze Madrid, no losses. Get gold to keep research running for a while at 40% and -7.
Move army towards Washington, as he has hooked up copper (got killed by an axe on first turn).

520 BC
Army moving to Washington, still producing Immortals non-stop.

500 BC
Huayna suicides an archer into one of our Immortals and adopts slavery. He has no copper though and even if he did he can’t get out of his city.
Pillaging Victoria.

480 BC
Nothing

460 BC
Immortal defeats skirmisher out in the open.
Same Immortal attacks and defeats warrior, also of Mansa.

440 BC
Army passes one of Mansa’s small cities (this one is not being guarded by Immortals). Decide to move on as it’s on a hill and skirmishers seem to be strong defenders. The city is surrounded by jungle so I and has 0 resources so Washington needs our focus more.

420 BC
Kill an American warrior in the middle of nowhere.

400 BC
Metal Casting done, Writing up next since its on the way to catapults. Not sure what else we’d want to get.

380 BC
We kill another aztec archer suiciding into our horsies.
American group of Spearman + Axeman + Archer moving towards our army.
Still pillaging Victoria and roading to the east (3 workers) and the northwest (Huayna Capac, 1 worker).

360 BC
Spearman attacks our Immortals and kills one. Spear is not hurt.

340 BC
Spearman kills another Immortal, the Spear is now at 1.6 but protected by forest and the axe and archer.

320 BC
Immortal at Huayna’s (north west) defends against 2 archers.
We spot a settler of Mansa’s, guarded by 2 skirmishers.
We have Immortals nearby and kill them, without losses, capturing a worker that can join our roadbuilders.

300 BC
Victoria attacks our pillager with a chariot. It dies of course.

280 BC
We kill another skirmisher in the field.
Also a lost warrior of Mansa’s.
Our pillager gets attacked by and kills another chariot of Victoria’s.
The freaking spearman who had retreated into the city kills another Immortal.

260 BC
We spot Washington’s Copper. Defended by 1 spear. I think we’ll have to suicide our army into it and guard it, or he’ll just continue making more spears.
Our pillager dies to an archer of Victoria’s. She really want to get rid of him.

240 BC
Our treasury is now empty and we are running 10% research. I realize that I forgot to turn down research earlier. Very stupid.
We kill 2 of Victoria’s warriors who were threatening our road builders. Our road is now stretching 3 / 4 of the way to Washington who is on the other side of the map from us.

220 BC
Units on strike it says. I have rarely experienced this and don’t remember what exactly that does. Yeah I’m that new.
An immortal gets killed by a spear.
Our new pillager that I sent on its way to Victoria a while ago has arrived and spots a second city, York.

200 BC
Huayna has decided to go after our road builder that is getting close to him. Our immortals that are guarding his city are just in time to catch them.


The most interesting part of the battlefield (the copper is in the topright):

 

[Eggs]

I didn't think that spear would own our immortals this badly when our Immortals are hiding in the forests. I thought numbers would be able to deny him of his copper. We'll probably need axemen when our forge is done (4 more turns I think). They should be able to get there fairly quickly over the road . Meanwhile we should probably try to pillage his lands, dodging his spears. We should probably see if we can send some Immortals to Victoria too. Montezuma, Huayna and Mansa can't really go anywhere. Monte and Huayna are locked into 1 city.

 

[Eggs]

Oo we should of course destroy the american city at the copper, it's only defended by 2 archers

 

[shinku]

You had to deal with some nasty resistance there Eggs, nice on taking Madrid though

If Boston doesn't fall, we always can cut the road to the capital, to avoid more spearmen to be produced by his productive cities

 

[GreyFox]

First pirority is to disconnect Washy from his source of iron/copper, else we would be doom seeing that we don't have have metals to produce effective counter against axe/spear until crossbows (feudalism).

I think the most effective way of moving our armies is to move them in pipeline, i.e:
- Captial produces Imnortals, move towards nearest AI city
- Immortal currently at nearest AI city moves towards next nearest AI city
- Immortal currently at 2nd nearest AI city moves towards 3rd nearest AI city
- etc


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[Akuma-sama]

I didn't think that spear would own our immortals this badly when our Immortals are hiding in the forests.

Lurker's comments
The problem is that Immortals, as mounted units, get "no defensive bonuses"; meaning, no matter what tile they're on or how upgraded they are, if they're attacked, they're at base 4.
Now you have a spearman (4 str) attacking an immortal (4 str); the spearman gets +100% because it's against a mounted unit and... well...
The result is simple enough

The moral of this story: Keep immortals on the attack, where they get bonuses.

Without Iron, though, this game'll get hard in the midevil ages... Horse archers and Crossbowmen just won't cut it against Macemen and Knights, both of which need Iron to be built. Not only do you need to keep them isolated, but you need to rush for gunpowder and at LEAST musketmen (but preferably riflemen), too!

 

[Corbeau]

Glad to see that we're making good progress despite my early over-fixation on killing Monte.

I wanted to let you folks know that I'm out for a couple weeks due to finals preperation. I can be skipped, or even dropped considering that this game will likely be done before I'm back.

 

[GreyFox]

Good luck on your finals ... Perhaps when you are back, we would be doing 1CC-AWP