mm11: Persian Pandemonium AWN 1CC

Mark1031 · Mar 10, 2006

OK I played this a couple of days ago and then got distracted. I don't have my notes but a few important things happened. First Monty and Huayna are gone. One of the pics is Huayna's capitol after he foolishly attacked with 2 archers and lost allowing an easy capture. Why Monty was still alive is beyond me. We now have 300+ gp and are not hemmoraging at 50% Sci. The other most important thing is Washington's Copper city is Gone. Lost a few immortals doing that but it is well worth it. We can't afford so many anyway. He still has a stack with one spear and 1 axe at least. I started a few archers as they may be needed to counter this and it looked as if he might be heading in our direction with that stack. Finally there are 7 IM's aroung London. Next player please take her out.

Comments: We have too many immortals and they are too scattered. No point in leaving weak civs around with 2 Im's supressing when we can just remove them and concentrate more Im's on the remaining civs. Also, why oh why all the flanking promotions. Immortals are easy to replace, why would I want a bunch of .2 HP units sitting around waiting to heal. They already have a 30% withdraw chance. The only thing I find useful is strength and medic maybe also shock if axes and spears are afoot.

You will note pyramids in the cue. This is probably weedy move and can be nixed, I started it when we were so broke there was no point in building other units. I brought a bunch of workers back so fast forest chop is possible if you want to grab it for the long haul but I really don't think it will be needed.

Mark
Corbeau- 2 week skip
GreyFox-Up
Shinku
Eggs

shinku · Mar 10, 2006

Flanking II gives a total of 50% (if I got it right) withdrawal chance, but more importantly immunize to first strikes, making the Immortals real killers against archers. I thought it might be useful to have a few of them on hand :hmm:

Though I realize that I could have been more aggressive, and ransack a capital or two, I was too afraid of losing an offensive and letting the AI expand.

Mark1031 · Mar 10, 2006

Interesting point about the first strike shinku. But is that much better than 2 strength promotions, I really don't know the calculations and a withdrawn unit takes forever to heal, I would almost rather they die if there death nets a city. I probably only pointed it out because we were going broke with units. As far as aggression goes that is the more important point for me. I took out monty with what was sitting there supressing workers. It was a close call but well worth the chance and he was so close that replacing a failed offensive would have been no problem. The successful immortals are now promoted and on to a new front. Anyway it is not a criticism of you in particiular just my general opinions.

shinku · Mar 10, 2006

I took it as advices, not criticism

To be honest, I don't know the calculations that well, but that sounded like a worthy promotion to give to some Immortals, that and some of them already had Flanking I, so I figured it would be better to promote them to Flanking II, to get the full benefits.

Combat is useful in all situations, so it's always safe to promote them in that way, and put a medic in the stack.

GreyFox · Mar 10, 2006

Got it, too late tonight, will play tomorrow morning.

Wel. I am the one advocating suppressing first instead of taking cities out. I still think that is the more correct approach. IMHO, only when all AIs are being suppressed then should we risk taking the cities out. True, Monty was close, and if you are unlucky with the RNG God working against you, the immortals can easily be replaced. But if we attempted that early in the game, that would mean a few more precious turns to reach the further AIs.

Of-course now that all AIs are being suppressed, we could and should take AIs out. I was thinking of the more cautious approach of bringing cats into the battlefield, but you are right. Immortals are cheap enough to be thrown against AI cities.

-

GreyFox · Mar 11, 2006

----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 140 (0 AD)
Why are the workers set to sleep? Chop!
Immortal promoted: Combat I

Turn 141 (20 AD)
Immortal defeats (0.32/4): English Archer
Immortal defeats (1.36/4): English Archer
Immortal defeats (0.64/4): English Archer
Razed London

Mark has set me up nicely to take London ... and so I took it.

Quite lucky too, without suffering loses.

Persepolis finishes: Archer

Turn 142 (40 AD)
Immortal promoted: Shock
Immortal promoted: Combat I
Immortal promoted: Shock
The above promotions are given to heal these units that survived the attack of London faster.

Turn 143 (60 AD)
Immortal defeats (3.44/4): American Archer
Persepolis begins: Immortal
Americans founded a new city Atlanta, and an archer is in the open while moving to reinforce it. I sieze the opportunity to remove the archer.

Turn 144 (80 AD)
Immortal promoted: Shock <- Heal the Immorta at Atlanta faster!
Persepolis finishes: Immortal
Immortal defeats (2.20/4): English Chariot
The English sends out a Chariot from Hastings, and suicided against our Immortal. Quite lucky here, since it failed to retreat, meaning Hastings has one less defender ... You know what that means, right? Right? :hammer:

Turn 145 (100 AD)
Immortal loses to: American Spearman (4.00/4)
The American attacks from Atlanta. Lucky bastard!

Turn 146 (120 AD)
Immortal defeats (1.72/4): American Spearman
American tries his luck again ... Not everyday is Sunday, Uncle Sam!

Turn 147 (140 AD)
Immortal defeats (2.52/4): English Archer
Immortal loses to: English Archer (0.48/3)
Immortal loses to: English Archer (0.93/3)
I tried my luck to take Hastings .. Geez, what lousy luck.
I recall another Immortal currently suppressing at York to join in the attack.
The next player should be in a btter position to take out Hastings.
This is the situation at the end of my turnset:

Turn 148 (160 AD)
Immortal promoted: Combat II
Persepolis begins: Immortal
Immortal loses to: American Archer (0.48/3)
Immortal defeats (1.84/4): American Archer
Persepolis finishes: Immortal

I tried my luck here attacking Philadelphia.
But lost to that city garison archer.
My good luck are all used up at the attack of London!!!
Moved some immortals suspressing Mansa to reinforce.
This is the current situation at Philadelphia:

My advice to next player is try to attack the city only when the Immortals are fully healed. The City Garison promoted archer is quite nasty.

Turn 149 (180 AD)
Immortal promoted: Combat II
----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 149 (180 AD)
Thought this was the last turn, turned out I have 1 more turn.
Thus a save and a load here.

Turn 150 (200 AD)
Immortal promoted: Combat I
Yikes, Mansa is sending 2 skimishers towards us, promote our Immortal that meets head on with his forces, and move it up a hill for extra defence.

After-Turns Notes

- I still think that we do not have enough Immortals to suppress the Americans. Look at our forces distributon below:

- For al we know, Americans may have hooked the metals west of New York or south of Washington.

- I pumped our science rate to 100%. We can afford it.

- Chopped a few forest for pyramids, although I seriously see no point in building it in this game. But I respect the previous player's decision, and play along with it.

- This is the current situtaion with Mansa. His skimmishers are quite difficult to attack, especially if they are in the city.

- Its the Americans I am worried about. We don't know what's going on in Washington or New York, so I would serously recommend sending some immortals there to find out if he has iron/copper hooked. Look at Atlanta:

- The save. Good luck.

shinku · Mar 11, 2006

That's a lot of skirmishers :eek:

We'll need more Immortals or better units to take them all down (unless the RNG is on our side).

GreyFox · Mar 11, 2006

The main problem is we don't have iron nor copper, else a few axemans would make short work of the skimishers ....

Roster:
Mark
Corbeau - SKIP for 2 weeks
GreyFox - Just Played
Shinku - UP
Eggs - ON DECK

-

shinku · Mar 11, 2006

Oh right, I'm up :crazyeye:

Got it.

shinku · Mar 11, 2006

200 AD - Inherited
Set workers to chopping duty

210 AD - Turn 152
Raze Philadelphia, no losses
Raze Hastings, one Immortal down. Only York left

IBT
Wandering skirmishers attack our Immortal on the jungle hill, we win

240 AD - Turn 155
Pyramids complete, start on Immortal since it's our best unit
Confucianism founded in York, the culture will help the defenders

270 AD - Turn 158
IBT: ambushed by three skirmishers, our Immortal bravely kill one before dying
Kill a skirmisher in the open
New York razed

IBT
The two escaping skirmishers try to attack our jungle hill Immortal, and lose

280 AD - Turn 159
Kill an archer heading for Atlanta

300 AD - Turn 161
Discover Maths, start Construction for catapults

The Mansa situation didn't move, one or two skirmishers left his cities to die in open ground but that's about it.

Washington and Atlanta are pretty much the same. Though there is an improved rice tile east of Washington, one might want to check if there is a coastal city over there.

And here is what's left of Victoria :

York should fall without much difficulty given enough troops. Maybe Kumbi Saleh as well, but expect losses.
And we should find a use to our Pyramids, maybe revolt to Hereditary Rule or Universal Suffrage.

Good luck

GreyFox · Mar 11, 2006

Great turns, Shinku! I was expecting you to raze Hastings and Atlanta, but New York is a pleasant surprise :goodjob:

I think our best course of approach is becoming clearer, kill off English, then possibly American. By then catapults should be ready, and the world would be clear of all non-Persians! Long Live the Babylons!

I think Police State may server us better, the +25% military production may be handy.

-

shinku · Mar 11, 2006

Ah yeah, I forgot Police State, the increase in production will be best with it.
I agree with the plan, we should keep suppressing Mansa to avoid him getting anything better than skirmishers.

[Edit] Wowow there, it's not Atlanta I razed, but Philadelphia :crazyeye:

Sorry for the false hopes

Atlanta's spearman need more than a couple Immortals to fall - and I didn't want to leave Mansa without surveillance

GreyFox · Mar 11, 2006

Oh, right , its Philadelphia ...

I think we could build a group of 5-6 new Immortals which will go city by city to take them out until catapults s ready. A ratio of 2 Immortals versus 1 Skimishers should be enough.

Mark1031 · Mar 12, 2006

OK Eggs is up.

We probably have to wait for cats to finish it off. As I said in my report pyramids was started when we were so broke units were on strike @ 0% science and could have been nixed, I guess I should have just removed it from the cue after we got some war booty. It was certainly not necessary but we were so broke I couldn't build more units. Police state could help finish things up faster though.

Mark1031 · Mar 14, 2006

OK no word from Eggs so I got it.

Mark1031 · Mar 16, 2006

300: Still some immortals to move. Our immortal % is rather low in cities with culture and against skirmishers is like 7%. We need cats. So start library. I will go to representation when we grow and hire 2 scientists. After construction we can go 0% science and finish maybe switching to Police state.

330: Washington builds the oracle.

370: Library done convert to police state no sense in doing Representation as it doesnt add much research at the moment and we cant grow for police state.

400: Construction in 9. We are a Police State pumping immortals but they cant take cities alone. I have been moving troops up on York. I think we can finish them off w/o cat support. Once construction is in I would turn science to 0 and pump out cats until we cant afford it to finish this off.

Mark1031 · Mar 16, 2006

Roster:
Mark-Just Played
Corbeau - SKIP for 2 weeks
GreyFox - UP
Shinku - ON DECK
Eggs -

GreyFox · Mar 16, 2006

Pre-Turn

I agree with Mark's assessment of Representation does not bring much. Why? Let's take a look:

As seen, we have 38 beakers at +25%, requiring 6 turns to complete construction.

If I revolt to Representation, adding +3 beakers per scientist, that is a 6 + 25% = 7 beakers increment, will only tune down our turns required to learn construction by 1 turn. Factoring in the anarchy turns (1 for revolting to Representation, 1 for going back to Police State after learning construction for the +25% prod boost), it actually cost us 1 turn more.

Okay, enough of number crunching bullfeathers, let's get on with the war :hammer:

The Empire where the Sun would Never Rise Again

after the Immortals at York healed, its time to eliminate the English once and for all ...

Turn 174 (440 AD)
Immortal promoted: Shock
Immortal defeats (0.80/4): English Archer
Immortal loses to: English Archer (1.29/3)
Immortal promoted: Combat I
Immortal defeats (1.48/4): English Archer
Immortal defeats (3.12/4): English Archer
Razed York

And English no more ...

The American Front

I moved the war heroes from York to Atlanta ... and this is the situation:

I am undecided whether we should take Washington, or Atlanta. On one hand, Atlanta might be easier, with 0 cultural defense. However, there is a spearman there, which is the prefect counter to our Immortals.

The Mansa Frontline

No changes, except Mansa suicided a few units ...

After-Turn

- Construction is in, I push the slider to 0 to accumulate gold. I have also removed the 2 scientist, changing one to Engineer, one back to work on the tile. MM'ed the capital to again avoid growth (limited by health), but produces more hammer.

- I send 2 groups of workers for chopping duty:

- Autolog, if interested:

Spoiler :

- I suspect this game to end in at most 3 more turnsets ... :cooool:

- The Save: (Have Fun, Shinku!)

shinku · Mar 17, 2006

Here I am.

Eggs · Mar 17, 2006

I have been and am busy. Sorry for not notifying you. I think I'll just skip the rest of the game if no one minds. Sounds like it's almost done anyway

.

mm11: Persian Pandemonium AWN 1CC

Deity

Alive

Deity

Alive

Make it so ...

Make it so ...

Alive

Make it so ...

Alive

Alive

Make it so ...

Alive

Make it so ...

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Make it so ...

Alive

Chieftain

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