mm15: Berserk Bismarck- AWM-1CC

Gotag · May 3, 2006

Well we're paying the piper for our earlier indulgences...

1100AD Pre turn Stall Berlin

1100 Caravel->Caravel

Move units to attack Sidon, we meet Rosy. He's 10 techs up on us.

1120 Starve Berlin a bit to get this second Caravel in 1 turn

1130 Caravel->Swordsman

Joy, Cyrus has 3 fully loaded Galleys with 2 HA, 3 Archers and 1 Cat inbound. I have 1 warrior and 1 chariot to defend. I move a Galley to block one side and the Caraval to block the other way.

1140 All the troops land in Sidon and 2 archers attack out at our troops, we win both.

1150 Sword->Sword

I upgrade the warrior in Berlin to an Axeman as 2 archers land.

I pull our attackers back to the hill south of Sidon and we lose the blocking Galley to a Sally Galley. Swordsman dies to archer but the axeman and chariot clean up. Berlin clear for the moment.

1160 ALL the units in Sidon get on boats, I move the chariot into the now empty Sidon and capture it. Move our units

1170 Move units around

1180 Sword->Sword

1190 Move units

1200 Sword->Sword

Landing next turn. This is going to get ugly!!

1210 Units land and we're going to get pillaged. Even worse the archers are now all upgraded to crossbowman and these guys own our swordsman hard.

1220 Sword->Spear (builds in one and I need a units NOW)

Cat bombards and 2 crossbows die to our Swordsman. 80% def bonus helps i guess

We lose the cows and the farm, I protect the iron.

1230 Spear->Cat

We clean out the HAs and the Cat with minimum loss but against the one Crossbow our best units are at 9%. I suck it up and kill him or he will pillage us bad. We lose 2 swords.

1240->1300 Build as many units as possible.

On the tech front, we went construction->CoL->Bureaucracy->Monarchy->Feudalism, We're now building Maces and I suggest we get Guilds as soon as possible for Knights. I revolted to Bureaucracy, we now build 56 hammers per turn. If we starve a bit we can get a Mace or Caravel in 1 I think. We need better boats but that is a ways away. Currently their getting to our continent via city influence but we cannot return the favour with Galleys.

We got 2 great engineers who were merged.

I'm sorry I couldn't get the globe theater built but I just couldn't spare 6 turns. We have 2 Caravels, 1 guarding our clams and the other off the coast healing. It's level 3 so our leet ship.

We are something like 9-10 techs behind Rosy and Cyrus and 5-6 behind Sally. Should be fun the next few turns I think.

Gotag

Gotag · May 3, 2006

Heres the save as it wouldn't work with the previous post.

Gotag

GreyFox · May 4, 2006

uh-oh, we are in trouble .... :sad:

no hurry with the globe theatre ... I am just saying be careful of the growth ...if we can't get globe before we exceed the happiness limit, then need to MM berlin to avoid growth ... or whip out a caravel or two.

Given the circumstances, I must say npretty good turns defending our capital, Gotag! :goodjob:

I think woobi has went MIA ... suggest mark to (1) play as soon as you can without waiting for the 24hrs to pass and (2) advertise for one more player (if anyone in his right mind would want to join, that is :lol:

).

-

Mark1031 · May 5, 2006

OK it looks like you held off the first contact our Pacifist society had with the aggressive heathens of the world. Situation looks stable. My goal is to get some caravels out for possible circumnavigate and defense. They want our gold hills and better to sink them at sea. Also, I am not inclined to go for guilds but for education for oxford. We are a bit far behind in tech but ATM we have a defensible position. What I fear the most is falling behind at the gunpowder stage. I am in no hurry for land based attacks and would prefer to just defend with Navy.

1300: Go into food deficit to hire a engineer. Set build to auto caravel I want a Navy. Sink a galley (+settler/LB) of Roosevelts with our wounded level 2 caravel. Also Meet Qin. He is up a bit.

1310: Send a caravel out to the west.

1320: Caravel -> Taoist Monastary. Didn't realize we lacked this. Tech is the key in this thing and we are not doing so well. Also Feudalism->Paper. I guess I should pick up archery so we can build LBs.

1330-1360; Cranking out caravels. Cyrus Has a galley with set/LB headed for the goald site that I can;t stop in time. Will try to get the promotion for HE build on his city before it cultures up.

1370: He doesn't land. But now I could sink him but I want him to land. Send the Caravel up there heading E.

1380: Still doesn't land.

1390: Damn Cy is the first to circumnavigate.

1400: We get an Engineer. Nice merge him. Revolt to org religion and slavery. Sorry I guess I shouldn't do that on my last turn but I think we need some building and growth. We should be relatively safe. We really need a promotion to 10XP so we can build the HE but in the mean time we need Globe/uni/oxford/granary/duct/harbor. I would then head up the economic tree and build market/grocer/bank. Don't know but it might be possible to get liberalism 1st after Edu. Well anyway we have our work cut out for us. I want to get the buildings up and get to Merc but we also really need to get to astronomy/chemistry soon. I'm not sure if that might be the best but since we wanted guilds anyway for knights I thought that might be the best path.

Maksim · May 5, 2006

German history textbooks never agree on what exactly happened in the 15th century. It began in chaos, when somebody finally pointed out that being pacifistic while waging war on the rest of the world was a bit schizophrenic, and led to great stress among the common folk. This idea was seized upon by a newly established Peoples Party (whose leader, we hasten to add, had no moustache, and was thus a respectable citizen).

In the year 1410, the Peoples Party came to lead the great German nation. Their slogans were Organize for better productivity! and Slavery for a better tomorrow! In a short timespan they have completed Globe Theatre a mysterious building where all dissenters were sent from then onwards, their will broken by repeated shows of art house plays. Thus did Germany become a perfect society.

As soon as this was done, the Chairman of the party gave orders to people to procreate. Young couples were sent to forests instead of hills, and the first commercial brothels have been established in the middle of the century (later censors used the term granary to hide their true nature).

Meanwhile, the world outside continued its existence, unaware of the gruesome fate awaiting it one day. Realising that the German people were not sufficiently motivated to create a heroic epic due to lack of actual heroes, the Chairman seized upon a cunning plan. An experienced Caravel crew sunk two ships of enemy nations, and was invited into the capital for celebrations, where a monument was erected in their honor, and a great feast held. The brawl that followed served as a perfect basis for great German poets to compose an epic of sorts.

Somewhere in between, a Galley was built and sent up north to help transfer some forces to the neighboring desert island, where an American game show was hosted in the city of Houston. The Germans totally approved of the idea of killing all the Americans inside one by one until only one survivor was left. However, there was some slippage in the schedule, and the game is only now about to begin. Its definitely not to be missed!

Berlin has just finished its Heroic Epic, and is considering building a Harbor but thatis by no means required.

Some Caravels have been exploring the world. One found the Russians, who promptly sunk it, much to rejoicing of the German taxpayers.

Education is about to come in a couple of turns, allowing Oxford University to be built in Berlin. With that, it might be worth it to grab Liberalism, take Astronomy for free (build Observatory!) and drop back to Guilds/Banking for knights and Mercantilism. Once all the buildings are done, it might be worth it to switch to Theocracy, and start pumping Galleons full of soldiers.

In the immortal words of the Chancellor, said with his last breath...

The future looks bright for our people!

Gotag · May 5, 2006

I guess the AI doesn't like me... No invasions in 20 turns? Maybe Sally doesn't have open borders with anyone but Rosy and Cyrus.

If building lots of units don't forget to MM the city to emphasize commerce and work the coastal tiles. Having multiple turns of overflow or overflow X2 doesn't do a thing for us. Every little bit helps.

Gotag

GreyFox · May 5, 2006

Maksim said:
... (whose leader, we hasten to add, had no moustache, and was thus a respectable citizen) ...

... and the first commercial brothels have been established in the middle of the century (later censors used the term “granary” to hide their true nature) ...

OMG, this is hilarious!

Gotag said:
I guess the AI doesn't like me... No invasions in 20 turns? Maybe Sally doesn't have open borders with anyone but Rosy and Cyrus.

... count yourself unlucky to be after me ... I have the tendency to attract AI's retaliation during my turnset ... and of-course the full blunt of the retaliation falls on your turnset!!!

Gotag said:
If building lots of units don't forget to MM the city to emphasize commerce and work the coastal tiles. Having multiple turns of overflow or overflow X2 doesn't do a thing for us. Every little bit helps.

Very good point. Will TRTY to keep in mind ...

Got IT.

GreyFox · May 6, 2006

Besides the deathbed of the previous Chancellor, a timid voice replied: "Yes, our future is bright".

He was the young GreyFox, who was loved by the German as a scholarly young man. Later, the People's Party decided to appoint him as the Chancellor in the interrim, since an election was only a few months away.

Under the rule of the young GreyFox, all scholastics measures of the thriving (albiet tiny) nation of Germany see unpredecented growth, at least not since the great accomplishment of the Great Library so long ago. First, Education was learnt, bringing the Germans into the Renaissance Era ...

This prompted the German to vote GreyFox back into the power. No longer an interim Chancellor, but a real voted in leader, GreyFox proceed with even more infrastructure development. A Univeristy was built in honor of the previous Chancellor, which was later developed into the glorious Oxford University.

However, the right-wing extremist of the People Party was not happy with such developments. They accused the Chancellor of being a coward, not fit to lead German in a hostile world. Particularly, two not-so-successful campaigns fueled the right-wing extremist movement to overthrow the scholar's rule.

First, an Arabic galley was sighted in the north.

GreyFox, under influence of his heavily pipe :smoke:

, moved the charriot down in anticipation of a landing. However, the Arabic galley promptly turned back north, and landed at the spot where the chariot used to be.

A city was then built, and GreyFox decided to wait for the maceman reinforcement to arrive up north before attempting to eradicate the city off the German island. This cost the German troops an axeman ...

Turn 217 (1535 AD)
While attacking, Axeman loses to: Arabian Longbowman (2.94/6)
While attacking, Maceman defeats (2.56/8): Arabian Longbowman
Razed Khurasan

In the other island, the American campaign wasn't boding well either. After a long siege of the City of Houston, the troops attacked ...

"Houston, you have a problem... "

Turn 217 (1535 AD)
While attacking, Axeman loses to: American Longbowman (4.08/6)
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (2.76/6): American Longbowman
Razed Houston

So, two wars cost the Germans two axemans, which was deemed as an unacceptable rate of casuality.

The right-wing extremists promptly siezed the opportunity to force GreyFox to step down, when news of heavy casualty from the battles triggered an uproar among the German populance. The extremists then supported the great general, Gotag, who was the son of the late German Hero who had successully repelled the earlier invasion into the German lands a century ago, and who promised better war effort, to lead the German.

GreyFox's deepest regret was that he could not see the completion of the Liberalization effort, which was due the next year, that would have bring about the learning of navigation using positions of the stars.

Spoiler :

GreyFox · May 6, 2006

A coupl of notes:

(1) I am sending the galley over to the east coast to initiate a campaign against the Persians.

(2) Suggest starting a workboat when you have time to spare to buld a net on the eatern clams (we need the health bonus).

Gotag · May 6, 2006

Astronomy as our free tech is a nice idea however we need calender for it.

So....

1550 preturn change liberalism to calender and MM the city rather brutally (starve and build research) to get calender in 1.

1555 AD Calender->Liberalism

A check of the AI shows that Rosy, Cat and Cyrus all have Astronomy already. Move boats around and MM Berlin to max growth. I activate worker to build roads to the south east end of our island, I should have done that earlier.

1560 Liberalism->Engineering (3) I choose astronomy as free tech and start building an observatory, MM Berlin for max hammers to get it in 2 turns

+1 road movement is always nice and I want to go Gun Powder->Chemistry for Frigates and Grens.

1565 Move boats

1570 Observatory->Galleon

MM city for max research and growth we go size 12 around here.

1575 Engineering->Gun Powder Galleon->Galleon

Move units

1580-1590 Explore, we get a great engineer who is merged. I lose our pimped caravel at +75% odds against a chinese caravel. Rats.....

1595 Move units Research->Cat

1600 Gun Powder->Chemistry (8) Cat->?

Revenge on our loss when I sink the chinese caravel with another caravel.

I checked the lying tech trading screen and nobody has chemistry yet. However.... If we MM the city to max research then we can shorten the 8 turns by quite a bit. With Frigates, Galleons, Grens and Cats we have our basic army/navy for this time frame to start laying down some smack. We will want to get HR, music for mil tradition and Cav. Cat's cossacks are no joke and those I fear. We also can use some extra eco techs as when our army/navy gets larger we're going to be hurting for money.

BTW is tech trading disabled? It seems that every AI has the same exact same techs (some leaders of course with new higher ones) with nobody missing lower ones. If tech trading is enabled it would explain quite a bit.

Gotag

GreyFox · May 6, 2006

Tech Trading is disabled as I recall.

Sorry for missing the calendar ... :blush:

... I knew something must be wrong somewhere with my turns.

Abt going for Grenes, anyone has any opinion on saving some money for upgrading maces? The disadvantage is it would hurt our research pace. The advantage is we can have CRII grenies.

Gotag · May 6, 2006

Our research is based on specialists rather then commerce and as such dialing our research to 0% nets us around 30gpt and with upgrades at 110 a pop (iirc) is kinda a slow way to do it. OTOH it only cuts our research by about 1/3.

This will improve with merchantilism, markets, banks, grocers ect... but not that much unless we start getting a bunch of priest super specialists. The tech slider is simply not that relevant with our setup for producing cash.

The fighting ahead should be very interesting if we are not too disadvantaged tech wise. I would probably try a fabian strat and try for maximum economic damage with landings to pillage and plunder.

Mobility is key along with command of the seas. This will be very tough to obtain as it is impossible to take advantage of terrain at sea (+10% coast isn't enough) and numbers rule. In addition because of OCC flight is not as handy as it could be as carriers cannot carry bombers.

Gotag

Mark1031 · May 8, 2006

Pre: We are not doing that great in research or finances. As long as we are in Org Rel lets get the buildings out of the way. Also let's get knights for pillaging teams. Research set to currency and hire more specialists. We need more scientists.

1600: loose a caravel to Russian attack but not before taking one of her's to the bottom with us.

1605: Sink an arab galley with set/LB.

1610: Currency->guilds Start market.

1615-1635: Things were moving along nicely when Cyrus apparently researches to chemistry. and within 1 turn has a SoD with frigate cover headed toward us. It is mostly mounted units so I switch from the not so important grocer that I was happily building to the more important pikeman.

1640: Cy lands and pillages our horses but our iron is more important at the moment.

1645: Loose a mace and a sword to gren. and knight. However now the knights and elephants are out from under the 1 gren and they fall easily to 2 pikes and a spear.

1650: Loose 1 pike to that gren. he is a pain. kill the last knight w a pike and the cat with an ax. gren. is still there at full strength and promoted to pinch I think.

I think we need to get the bank and grocer up and get into theocracy ASAP. We do not have tech superiority. The only thing we can rely on is tactics and as pointed out by Gotag sea tactics are sort of nonexistant. I would advocate his strat of Max econ damage approach. Knights under grens. are good for pillaging.

Maksim · May 8, 2006

Got it. Will play tonight.

Maksim · May 8, 2006

In the middle of seventeenth century, the German city-state of Berlin was fighting for its very existence. The vile Persians expeditionary force was mostly destroyed the only enemies remaining were some rock-throwing idiots. Unfortunately, due to Persian technological superiority, their rocks blew up when landing.

Meanwhile, at the seas, combined forces of Chinese and Americans were intent on plundering the nations seafood resources. Situation looked dire, and it was during this time when the reactionary wing of the Peoples Party came to win the election.

Their leader had not only a moustache, but a great beard as well. Some said he was a philosopher, author of an underground cult classic Das Kapital, while others claimed that he was merely one part of a comedy trio, with his two brothers as shadowy advisors. The truth of this matter is still hotly debated, and largely irrelevant (funny how it always works out that way).

With unusual cruelty, he sent ahead two catapults to battle the enemy grenadiers, and followed their brave sacrifice with a unit of musketmen who succeeded in destroying the enemy and ending their threat once and for all.

He then ordered the construction of two galleons to combat the high seas threat. Although one of them was lost (as well as the galleon defending Germanys coast from before his reign), the second reigned supreme, and was soon joined by more patriotic sailors (made even more patriotic by double helpings of rum, as per Chancellors decree).

Finally, the disastrous expedition into the west, which left two units macemen wandering the desert for twenty years, was abandoned, and the units brought home. Unfortunately, the galley escorting them and its caravel defender were both lost a short while later to the forces of Saladin the Pirate King. The Chancellor passed a law that should Saladin ever fall into German hands, his moustache should be cut off with blunt garden shears.

By the year 1670 AD, the external threat has been taken care of, and the Chancellor gazed at the internal workings of his fair city. In the years that followed, a Grocer and a Bank have been built, helping with the countrys finances, while the scientists, having researched the secrets of Chemistry, turned their attention to debating how many angels could dance on the end of the pin.

Unfortunately, well never find out the answer to this most tantalizing question, for in the year 1690 AD, just as they have formulated the basic principles of Theology, a revolution occurred in the land. Conspiracy theorists point out that it was a very effective revolution, whereby the religious wing of the society united with the rising bourgeoisie, adopting the principles of Theocracy and Mercantilism. While some motion was made to consider the rights of slaves, it was eventually decided that slavery was a useful institution, and a cornerstone of the German society.

For the next ten years, the newly formed Parliament ordered research into Steel, while simultaneously increasing their navy presence by building two Frigates, currently patrolling the coastal borders.

Careful micromanagement of the society led to a perfect balance where a Frigate would be produced in a single turn, while maximizing commerce.

Chancellor pro tem has resigned at the year 1700 AD, citing ill health and marital commitments (of which he had plenty, as his detractors say). His final statement was to consider the future possibilities:

- A great person will arrive in a couple of turns
- Consider sending a fishing boat over to pick up more seafood on our east coast we have two extra health at present, but we will want to build at least Drydock as soon as we get Steel (IronWorks, while nice, is probably too expensive unless we happen to get a Great Engineer, in which case it might be useful to spend on?)
- Berlin is set to produce a 90-point unit for the time being with careful micro we can make it go up or down, so please pay attention to who works where (I was able to get extra 10% research at no cost!)

Enjoy!

GreyFox · May 9, 2006

Welcome to the Fifty Years in Brief, proudly brought to you by the German News Network (GNN).

In the begining of the 18th Century, the Germans saw the resignation of the Chancellor. He was quickily replaced replaced by the war-loviing General, which declared a martial law in German city-state.

His first act was to pillage the Arbs fishing nets north of Berlin, as you can see from the screen.

This was quickly retaliated, as the Arab's ally, the Persians promptly send in 2 galleons full of invasion force.

This spelt trouble, and the General immediately spend all the gold in the national treasury to upgrade a spears to pike. In an heroic effort, a catapult was sent in to perform a kamikaze atatck on the Perisans invaders.

This was promptly followed by a clean-up operation:

This battle costs the German the heroic sacrificial catapult, an unlucky battalion of Pikemen which lost to the enemy calvary despite favorable odds, and the destruction of a pasture (which was quickly rebuilt after the Persians were repelled).

In the navy, things weren't going very well with the General either. The Arabians, Persians and Romans pirates were determined to instill fear among the German fishing folks. Despite superior knowlegde of the German waters, and out-matching the pirates in terms of strength, several German frigates still lost the battles, resulting in the sinking of a significant portion of the German's Navy.

In view of such losses, the Gerneral devised a plan to equip the German ports with a drydock. His plan was a devious one: he proposed to first announce the production of a working boat, which was to be used for the netting operations in the clams site on the eastern waters of Germany. This however, was actually a smoke screen used to hide the actual production of the drydock. As the viewers can see in from explanation video we are bringing up in just a moment, 115 production points were devoted to the construction of a 40 points work boat, clearly a waste of production. In actual fact, the General's plan was to secretly devote the extra production to the background construction of the drydock. The General postulated that this will result in the drydock being constructed within a turn, where normally it would cost two.

In the domestic affairs, Rene Descartes was hailed as the greatest scientist in Germany for the past 50 years. He was then conferred with the prestigious Research Specialist Award.

And yes, he did have a moustache.

--

Spoiler :

Gotag · May 10, 2006

Quiet turn set which somewhat surprised me.

Couple of things. There is little point not promoting boats. The tactical use of them is very one dimensional so there is little to ponder which upgrade is best. In addition because of their range, it is a shame to lose an unpromoted one to surprise which is much more probable then land units.

Preturn, MMed Berlin to get Printing press in 1 while keeping the idea of a workboat+drydock in a total of two turns possible. (Nice idea btw)

1755 Printing Press->Replacement Parts Workboat->Drydock

Moved Units

1760 Drydock->Cannon

Move units

1765 Cannon->Frigate

MM the city to get Replacement parts in 1 less turn whilst starving a little with 5 Scientists. BTW with this civic it is ALWAYS better to have a priest rather then an engineer. The priest adds gpt also while keeping 2 hammers and 3 beakers.

1770 Frigate->Gren

I MM the city again to maintain 2x100 hammers units in 3 turns while keeping RP in the same number of turns. No way to keep 1 unit per turn and research at the same level without too much starving.

1775

Move units and bombard Shanghai because we can

1780 Replacement Parts->Nationalism Gren->Cannon

Kill Chinese Frigate that is protecting 1 galleon with 2 grens and 1 cat

1785

Kill Chinese Galleon and drown 2 grens 1 cat, surprise another chinese Galleon sending 2 grens and 1 settler to Davy Jones Locker

1790 MM city to produce 100 hammer per turn to build up an invasion force. I suggest China as the first victim as they are somewhat isolated and they are many small islands. Strategically we should go after Rosy but I fear the result. He is up Cav and Rifles and probably has cannons and a big main island. Still let's give something a go, if nothing else we're running out of time.

1795 Gren->Gren

Heal boats

1800 Gren->Galleon Nationalism in 1 turn

We will have 3 galleons and troops to fill them in two turns. The workboat is going around to the crabs (shows how our communication suck when I cannot even get a 2 move unit around our island in 10 turns. We need a few more frigates to patrol between us and Cyrus/Rosy ect... The worker is building lumber yards (weed as I lost 4 of turns on this.)

Best of luck!!

Gotag

Mark1031 · May 11, 2006

1800: Crap we are behind in techs to a number of civs. It looks like they are moving along nicely. This will be tough.

Threats are in decreasing order Roosevelt, Cathrine, Cyrus, Qin, Ceaser, salidin all based on tech. Decide to send out a stack of 6 grens. to pillage Roosevelt.

1802: All quiet. Nat. in-> Rifles in 7.

1804: patrolling

1806: patrolling.

1808; 1808 is a momentous year in the history of the German people as we make landfall on the Island of the vile hegemonic Roosevelt. Hopefully this goes better than the real war Roosevelt fought with the Germans.

1810: No counter from Rosey. Pillage the gold and split the stack in 2 for faster pillaging.

1812: Still no counter from Rosey. Pillage a town down to cottage and get about 50gp. This is fun.

1814: pillaging. 3 cannon are on the way.

1816: Rifles in->steam

1818: OK this is a lost cause as Roosevelt shows up with infantry, this is no longer fun. Loose 1 Gren.

1820: OK We will get eaten alive by infantry. IT loose 2 grens. so decide to try to take out NY with what is there. No bombard. Hopefully this will put a bit of WW on Rosey. Take NY for the loss of 1 cannon, 1 retreated. Now we better get out of there.

Well Im not sure we can do this at this point. We must avoid Rosey and get our own infantry. I guess I would focus on Frigates to stop any landings from Rosey. Perhaps we focus on stopping him at sea and work on those civs w/o infantry. The problem is if we dont slow him down pretty soon he will have destroyers and then we cant stop him. Well it should be interesting.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/mm15_AD-1820.Civ4SavedGame

Mark1031 · May 12, 2006

Mark1031
Maksim-up
Grey Fox-on deck
Gotag

Gotag · May 12, 2006

an uphill battle for over 2000 years. Maybe if we had not gotten so many great artists earlier we might be in better shape. *shrug* We're boned for this type of strat without major food bonuses. We simply cannot support enough specialists without starving.

Still though this will be most instructive. We build grens in 1 turn and if we can trade a gren for a town we are a fair bit ahead of the game. Pillage, Pillage, Pillage, must be the order of the day. If we can beat down some coastal cities (which is pretty much everything in archi maps) so much the better.

We need to start getting multiple groups on the go though. If we only had 2-3 AIs to fight I think we could win this. However 7 is just too many.

Gotag

mm15: Berserk Bismarck- AWM-1CC

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