MM2: Aggressive Athenians-AWM-OCC

Mark1031

Deity
Joined
Oct 27, 2001
Messages
5,237
Location
San Diego
Difficulty = Monarch
Civilization = Greeks
Map = Pangea
Barbs = sedentary
World Size = Small

Variant AW, Hard OCC That is we can never capture cities--No Armies.


Players

Aggie
Akots
Bed Head 7
Greebley
Mark
 
Not a sign up yet.

However, barbs with a conquest game are a royal pain. I did a 5CC before with them, and the whole team hated it.
 
I'd be happy to change the barbs. I was thinking that the camps could be used to generate $$ but I usually hate barbs myself. Does sedentary generate camps?

We could go small map to, I was just thinking that might be too easy :lol: .

My plan was to have a mountanous world and use the hoplites early to pillage and stop workers and generally cause trouble with all the civs until we could assemble our SoD. Settings are aggressive for all civs as well so maybe they fight each other as well as us.
 
Mark1031 said:
I'd be happy to change the barbs. I was thinking that the camps could be used to generate $$ but I usually hate barbs myself. Does sedentary generate camps?

No, that's the whole point. The camps are great, but the barbs coming from them are not. I found this out in MELI1-5CC AW Monarch myself. The main issue is the time and attention that you need to invest in these camps. But true, you can get promotions and money with barbs... Otoh: more than enough chances for promotions in an AW anyway.

Guess it means that we don't want to explore at all at the start? I'd almost like to be vikings, going for zeus, TGL and living on a small island...
 
Well I could go either way. It will be costly to support our armies and I was thinking that the barb income would be useful with only 1 city and a slow tech pace 25 gp is pretty nice. I've read other games where they generated a fair amount of income that way I've only played 1 AWE 5CC (we won easily) and can't remember if we had barbs but you usually keep some troops in the dead open space to wack settlers and once it is roaded it is pretty easy to just wack the camps too. But as I said my experience is limited. If we go without barbs though I would rather just turn them off although at monarch I guess you can get some good stuff. Decisions, decisions.
 
OK we will go with small map to try this out. Barbs up for discussion. Victory, conquest of course but all will be enabled. I don;t think it will go long enough for us to reach 20K and I don't see us building that many wonders anyway besides the colossus of course and maybe the GL or HG.
 
lurker's comment: This will be very interesting to watch. I predict that unit costs will be your demise. Yep, this is the first SG I predict a loss for. You now have to prove me wrong. ;)
 
You may be right but we can live with a loss. I really don't think it will be that hard however the money is the reason I was leaning toward barbs. This has been tried before on reagent with a crappy start-link (we will pick a crazy good start :D ). They lost but were doing quite well but left their city underdefended and were ambushed by a galley landing. We will not make the same mistake.
 
Always wanted to play OCC AW. Is it possible make it strict OCC, which means no armies? If the start is good, of course. And may be no barbarians indeed. And maximal aggression for the AIs.

Greeks might be not the best choice since commerical trait is wasted and Golden Age is despotic. It might be better to be Byzantines on an archipelago map may be even increasing difficulty to Emperor level. With Vikings it might be good as well but what to do then with these MGLs? Rush markets? Also, Monarch is rather easy difficulty but still scientific might be the best choice at least for a small map.

Not a signup, I'd like to know about the settings first.
 
Akots, would love to have you. Barbs are open for discussion. I see the sentiment is against so I guess we will go with sedentary. I anticipate that army support will be a big problem which is why I advocate barbs even though they are a royal pain they can generate a lot of income. I think Emperor is too much to start with but if we win we could move up. I think this will be quite difficult as is. As far as civ and settings I would really like to stick with the Greeks and pangea. The despotic GA is the price we pay but I think the Hoplite will do a lot of damage and is cheap. As far as Pelego I think it would be much more difficult for a OCC AW. Building and supporting enough boats to transport enough troops will be difficult and I’m hoping this game doesn’t really go much past Astronomy. As far as strict OCC I was thinking of doing that anyway so I’m fine with making it strict. I got a little nervous as I haven’t seen this done in a SG before so I included the army crutch.
 
Mark1031 seems to scare people away with insane looking variants! I don't fear a loss, but instead like to see what we can pull off. I'm always open for new challenges (now I'm back playing civ...). However, I really don't think that emperor is an option, as akots suggests. Monarch sounds tough enough.
 
A small world is much better and this is doable given some luck. The problem is that with OCC, if you want to build GL you'd stop building units for a very long time, so it's probably only possible with an archipelago map.

On the other hand, without GL, you'd have a big problem supporting both army and research.
 
@bed-head: You don't have to be good to play OCC, just extremely accurate and think twice or even three times before doing anything.

I still see not much point in playng the Greeks.

@Mark: Lets make a deal: If we lose on this one, we ought to play Byzantines OCC on archipelago AWE. Sure we will be able to make enough units to block all the coast and can win with 20K.

If the deal is acceptable, I'm in. :lol:

We cannot win with UN, 100K or Domination, so this leaves extremely unrealistic Space, barely doable Conquest and highly improbable 20K. Playing on 20K might be very risky because, as microbe noted, interrupting unit production might be too dangerous. Also, Republic might be out of the list of options simply just because we cannot trade for luxuries but hard to tell if we manage to build MoM somehow during the Golden Age. Getting this otherwise silly wonder might be our only chance to survive and build a reasonable size city.

The start apparently has to be rather good - food bonus and luxury, on the river obviously, not in the center of the map as well and some little breathing space.
 
akots said:
@bed-head: You don't have to be good to play OCC, just extremely accurate and think twice or even three times before doing anything.

Exactly! Micromanaging is brought down to a minimum, you don't have to worry about diplomacy and you also don't want to explore at the start. At all!

I like akots' deal, but I am tempted to go for vikings instead of byzantines in a next game, when we lose... Both are fine for me.
 
Well, Aggie and Mark1031 have beaten Sid repeatedly. I am not familiar with your record at that level, but I am very familiar with your performance in GOTM. I think I have reached the point where I can win on Deity with a decent start without much of a problem barring terrible luck. But I am still below the others interested, and I do not want to make an already difficult variant more difficult for the rest of the players.
 
OK Deal Akots that should be an interesting one. I have a start that I played out a bit and it looks good. I'll let someone else start. I'll wait till we get at least 1 more player.

Conditions:

Small world
80% water, Pangea
cold, Dry, 3 billion
Barbs Sedentary
 
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