MM2: Aggressive Athenians-AWM-OCC
- Thread starter Mark1031
- Start date
Aggie
Deity
Great going! Egypt gone, Colossus almost ours!. Not a bad location at all indeed 
akots
Poet
IMHO, we can win Philo race and build MoM. This is certianly doable considering pathetic state of our rivals and apparent safety of our location. If we pick Literature as a free tech, we might have a shot at the Great Library, though this can be tough indeed. But with size 12 city and hopefully in Golden Age (unfortunately still despotic) we can make it in no time and may be even grab another Ancient Age wonder if situation permits (SoZ?). Then, the guys will be coming hard to us since they would expand to that point. With Library in place, and Ceremonial Burial, we can hope for 20K defending with hoplites and having a few cats or may be swords for that matters. It will be ages before AIs will get their cities to size 12.
Great job Akots. I'm afraid this is going to be too easy. With wonders I think we should basically max out our troops then switch to wonder build. GL and SoZ for sure and maybe MoM. Since it's only Monarch I agree we should try for philosophy 1st. I would say writing next prolly @ min. Then Philo @ max.
Bed Head7 --UP
Greebly --On Deck
Bed Head7 --UP
Greebly --On Deck
Aggie
Deity
I agree with Mark on the path. Whether it's too easy...let's see first!
akots
Poet
We can run rather rapidly to Writing, less than 20 turns certainly, so no need to save cash, just go full speed. We'll save cash later when going for cheap techs like CB, Myst, Wheel and others.
I'm still thinking MoM will be the key wonder which allows us to have a size 12 city with essentially no luxury rate that early in the game. We can pick Literature as a free tech after Philo. I would not worry too much to keep in pace with AI before Education and even then on Monarch they will be rather slow. So, Great Library will be nice to have but apparently not mandatory.
I'm still thinking MoM will be the key wonder which allows us to have a size 12 city with essentially no luxury rate that early in the game. We can pick Literature as a free tech after Philo. I would not worry too much to keep in pace with AI before Education and even then on Monarch they will be rather slow. So, Great Library will be nice to have but apparently not mandatory.
I disagree. Unit costs will be a killer so we want free techs. I would get the GL ASAP and then shut off research. I would go min on writing and then use the $$ to support max on Philo and a large troop build during the research period. We should take it to the AI now. I would be happy if this never got out of the AA. We should be massing Hoplites and swords and let the blood flow. Or at least get Hops out pilliaging.
akots
Poet
So, you want it to be Conquests?
I was thinking mostly of 20K still...
IMO, we can go either way now, just have to decide which one. The problem is that the sooner we get Philo + MoM, the better we are off in terms of cash and unit support and unit build consequentally. And now we are safe and don't have to worry about anything. So, I'm still thinking MoM is a way to go both for Conquest and 20K and the sooner we get it the better.
I was thinking mostly of 20K still...
IMO, we can go either way now, just have to decide which one. The problem is that the sooner we get Philo + MoM, the better we are off in terms of cash and unit support and unit build consequentally. And now we are safe and don't have to worry about anything. So, I'm still thinking MoM is a way to go both for Conquest and 20K and the sooner we get it the better.
Pre - I want to do the shield evaluation again.
At size 12
Center tile : 2fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Three cows : 9fpt, 6spt, 4gpt
Two grass : 4fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Two plains (irrigated) : 4fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Five plains (mined) : 5fpt, 10spt, 9gpt
Total : 24fpt, 22spt, 27gpt
At size 12 (with Colossus)
Center tile : 2fpt, 2spt, 5gpt
Three cows : 9fpt, 6spt, 6gpt
Two grass : 4fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Two plains (irrigated) : 4fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Five plains (mined) : 5fpt, 10spt, 10gpt
Total : 24fpt, 22spt, 29gpt
As you can see, it doesn't do much for us in despotism
At size 12 (with Colossus and GA)
Center tile : 2fpt, 2spt, 6gpt
Three cows : 9fpt, 6spt, 7gpt
Two grass : 4fpt, 4spt, 6gpt
Two plains (irrigated) : 4fpt, 4spt, 6gpt
Five plains (mined) : 5fpt, 10spt, 15gpt
Total : 24fpt, 26spt, 40gpt
So we could get Great Library in 16 in despotism and GA, which isn't bad at all. However, Colossus doesn't do much for us in despotism since we can work almost exclusively river tiles. It may be valuable for us to actually self research towards Monarchy even once we have the Great Library. Depending on how many AI we know, that may actually be more profitable for us.
2110 BC (1) - Iron Working comes in, and select writing. In our current state, we can get it in 26 turns with no surplus. I prefer this to min with 6gpt surplus, especially since the colossus will speed it up significantly.
Iron is right next to where Thebes was, so definitely colonizable. But we need more slaves...
2070 BC (2) -
2030 BC (3) -
1990 BC (4) - Everything looks fine. In the IT, we will grow to size 8.
IT - See a yellow scout. Mongols? Then recieve a message that a warrior will be disbanded. Huh?
1950 BC (5) - Decide to stop. I don't think we should have lost the warrior, and can't really figure out why it even happened.
Before:
After:
If someone can explain it, I really would appreciate it. I would imagine that the calculation as to deficit spending occurs at some strange time IT, but there have been plenty of times where I have been at 0g and 0gpt and gone to -1gpt IT without a problem. It has been when the turn ends at 0g and negative gpt that something gets disbanded or sold.
At size 12
Center tile : 2fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Three cows : 9fpt, 6spt, 4gpt
Two grass : 4fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Two plains (irrigated) : 4fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Five plains (mined) : 5fpt, 10spt, 9gpt
Total : 24fpt, 22spt, 27gpt
At size 12 (with Colossus)
Center tile : 2fpt, 2spt, 5gpt
Three cows : 9fpt, 6spt, 6gpt
Two grass : 4fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Two plains (irrigated) : 4fpt, 2spt, 4gpt
Five plains (mined) : 5fpt, 10spt, 10gpt
Total : 24fpt, 22spt, 29gpt
As you can see, it doesn't do much for us in despotism
At size 12 (with Colossus and GA)
Center tile : 2fpt, 2spt, 6gpt
Three cows : 9fpt, 6spt, 7gpt
Two grass : 4fpt, 4spt, 6gpt
Two plains (irrigated) : 4fpt, 4spt, 6gpt
Five plains (mined) : 5fpt, 10spt, 15gpt
Total : 24fpt, 26spt, 40gpt
So we could get Great Library in 16 in despotism and GA, which isn't bad at all. However, Colossus doesn't do much for us in despotism since we can work almost exclusively river tiles. It may be valuable for us to actually self research towards Monarchy even once we have the Great Library. Depending on how many AI we know, that may actually be more profitable for us.
2110 BC (1) - Iron Working comes in, and select writing. In our current state, we can get it in 26 turns with no surplus. I prefer this to min with 6gpt surplus, especially since the colossus will speed it up significantly.
Iron is right next to where Thebes was, so definitely colonizable. But we need more slaves...
2070 BC (2) -
2030 BC (3) -
1990 BC (4) - Everything looks fine. In the IT, we will grow to size 8.
IT - See a yellow scout. Mongols? Then recieve a message that a warrior will be disbanded. Huh?
1950 BC (5) - Decide to stop. I don't think we should have lost the warrior, and can't really figure out why it even happened.
Before:
After:
If someone can explain it, I really would appreciate it. I would imagine that the calculation as to deficit spending occurs at some strange time IT, but there have been plenty of times where I have been at 0g and 0gpt and gone to -1gpt IT without a problem. It has been when the turn ends at 0g and negative gpt that something gets disbanded or sold.
Not really sure I usually don't play it that close to 0. NP we don't really need the reg warriors now anyway. Ya the Colossus won't really help in Despo but is really for later. The problem with full on research for writing is that we should be building military and heading out to disrupt the other AIs. I would advocate a minimum run since after that we can use the cash to fund full on for Philo. I just don;t think we can continue full on research for 4 straight techs and fight AW with 1 city. I would be building Hoplites now and sending them out to pillage and disrupt workers. Plant a hoplite on mountain near a city and they won't send out workers and they will probably not attack either. If we get our GA now I think it's fine it will be despotic anyway and we are big enough.
IMO Top priorities are connect Iron, build Hops and swords maybe a few more archers for defensive bombard, destroy cities/pillage improvements.
IMO Top priorities are connect Iron, build Hops and swords maybe a few more archers for defensive bombard, destroy cities/pillage improvements.
The warrior was nice to have for MP purposes. I don't know which four techs we are going for at full speed. I was only thinking of Writing, Philosophy, and Literature. Colossus will help when we get it now, and we can always tailor our research rate to unit costs.
akots
Poet
I do agree with bed_head here. However, Mark also has a valid point IMO. We are certainly safe just because the AI needs about 20 turns to walk to us. With a large city, we can build archers every 2 turns maximum, so it is OK in case of a sudden assault. It still might be possible to avoid Despotic Golden Age and try not to build hoplites though. We can make it to Monarchy in no time with Great Library and a Library.
@Mark: It is only Monarch, AIs are rather stupid on this level compared to the Sid games you usually play. We don't have to cripple them off, they are already crippled. However, it is not Regent level and I doubt we can kill either one of them with one archer and a hoplite.
@bed_head. Regarding the lost warrior: Apparently it is better to avoid coming too close to zero gold but usually it should be OK. Not really sure what happened, you must have lost one trade in the interturn due to citizen rearrangement by governor if you have not done it yourself. If you had a governor on, please then turn him off. If he was off, this is a weird.
@Mark: It is only Monarch, AIs are rather stupid on this level compared to the Sid games you usually play. We don't have to cripple them off, they are already crippled. However, it is not Regent level and I doubt we can kill either one of them with one archer and a hoplite.
@bed_head. Regarding the lost warrior: Apparently it is better to avoid coming too close to zero gold but usually it should be OK. Not really sure what happened, you must have lost one trade in the interturn due to citizen rearrangement by governor if you have not done it yourself. If you had a governor on, please then turn him off. If he was off, this is a weird.
The governor was off, of course, with emphasis on production as set by a previous player. It really shouldn't have happened, and seems somewhat buggy to me.
I guess I'll keep a small surplus in the bank from now on, but I still don't think we should have lost the warrior.
I guess I'll keep a small surplus in the bank from now on, but I still don't think we should have lost the warrior.
akots
Poet
It happens when the city grows or borders expand. The governor will reassign the citizens then and gold can be lost.
The 4 techs are WC and IW which we have done already, we will now do writing and Philo. Lit for free and then stop.
I think we have a big advantage in the early going with 20 sp pikes and I think we should use it. Now that our city is up and ready to crank military I think we should. The troops can pillage, scare workers, force rushed spears and start taking down cities and settlers and generally just screw up and slow down the AIs. I think not using the Hops now and trying to time the GA is just not worth it relative to the early damage we can do. We don;t want our remaining opponents to get too big or progress too fast. I'd really like to end this before Feudalism if possible, Chivarly max. I don't expect to see Muskets. Also, If we can get positions on the resources, iron in particular, we will only face 2 attack units.
We are so broke we can't sustain research and military full on for 2 more techs thus 1 will need to be @ min and I would pick writing now so we can get a military machine up and bank some $$ for the philo run. Well that is my thinking.
I think we have a big advantage in the early going with 20 sp pikes and I think we should use it. Now that our city is up and ready to crank military I think we should. The troops can pillage, scare workers, force rushed spears and start taking down cities and settlers and generally just screw up and slow down the AIs. I think not using the Hops now and trying to time the GA is just not worth it relative to the early damage we can do. We don;t want our remaining opponents to get too big or progress too fast. I'd really like to end this before Feudalism if possible, Chivarly max. I don't expect to see Muskets. Also, If we can get positions on the resources, iron in particular, we will only face 2 attack units.
We are so broke we can't sustain research and military full on for 2 more techs thus 1 will need to be @ min and I would pick writing now so we can get a military machine up and bank some $$ for the philo run. Well that is my thinking.
Yes, but I posted the sceenshot of the treasury to show that no gold was lost. Our income went from 12 to 14 that turn, with an additional gold going to science and an additional gold towards happiness. It doesn't make sense, and even though it is only one warrior it still isn't right. I would like to have the warrior back, and until I find out that something legitimate happened, I would rather not continue. Or, though I imagine no one else would support this route, go back a turn and lower science 10% so that this doesn't happen.
Anyway, regardless of what happens with the disbanding, I'll lower science a bit so we can build a bit of a surplus.
Anyway, regardless of what happens with the disbanding, I'll lower science a bit so we can build a bit of a surplus.
Aggie
Deity
We shouldn't underestimate the AI on monarch. If we allow them to grow they will get a lot stronger. I like the approach to keep them under pressure.
Regarding the warrior: no clue, especially when I read that we were doing min science!
Regarding the warrior: no clue, especially when I read that we were doing min science!
