MM8: Philosophical Fredrick

3000BC - I see that Buddhism and Hinduism are both founded already. I don't think we'd get to Judaism before the AI. The only way we'd get our own religion is to research straight to code of laws right away and I don't think it's worth it. We'll have to be the faithless for now. I'm tempted to switch research to pottery right now as I don't find bronze working to be a very valuable tech unless you plan to go to war early, which we aren't. The only forests I would chop down are the ones on the hills since a mine is better, but the forests on flat lands are good production tiles that should be left alone, IMO. I'll leave research alone as we're halfway done researching it and chopping the forest on the hill can help out a bunch on our settler. There's a lot of desert to the NE and N so there's no reason to settle there. The incense and gold will come under Berlin's cultural expansion. The land to the west has some great city sites. The SE and SW look promising as well but aren't scouted out yet.

2960BC (1) - We finish our worker and I move him to the pig hill to build a pasture. Berlin starts on a warrior due in 5 turns. Since nothing can get to us in 5 turns and we can afford the happiness hit I send our lone defending warrior to the SW to scout the blackness down there.

2920BC (2) - Nothing much.

2880BC (3) - Nothing much.

2840BC (4) - We meet Hatshepsut of Egypt in the SW. She has no religion. Bleh further exploring makes it look like it's all jungle to the SW. We pop a goody hut with our NE scout and get another scout. That scout discovers marble along the coast up there. We may be able to get both marble and stone. Check the AI's attitudes toward each other. Hatty doesn't like Cyrus but Cyrus likes Hatty. Hatty likes Louis but Louis doesn't like Hatty. Cyrus and Louis don't know each other. Nice little triangle there. It means no matter who we trade with we're going to get a rep hit with one of them.

2800BC (5) - Man I've never seen so much jungle on one map before. And for a continents map this is one giant continent. Odd I just noticed there is no happiness hit in Berlin for having no defender. Wonder why that is. We're still 5 :) - 2 :( anyway.

2760BC (6) - Berlin finishes a warrior and starts on another warrior. Our worker finishes his pasture and builds a road. Find a possibly great city location in the SW.

2720BC (7) - Find horses in the tundra north of the desert. Crazy how fast you can go from desert to tundra. :lol: Find Caesar to the far far far West. Woohoo he has a lower score than us. He only knows Hatty.

2680BC (8) - We finally learn Bronze Working. I don't adopt slavery as it's not worth the turn of anarchy since it's doubtful we'll be whipping at all. I start research on archery because I hate building warriors. Archers are at least useful for a bit. Aw crap. I was wondering why the pigs didn't connect to Berlin when I finished the Pasture. I didn't think I needed a road but since Berlin wasn't getting the pig I built it anyway. Now even with the road it still isn't connected to Berlin. It turns out Berlin is not even considered to be on the river, it's getting its fresh water from the lake. Oh well, I'll have to road another tile then. Berlin doesn't even need the pig yet, though so I'll go build the camp on the elephants rather than waste another two turns building another road. We can do that later. Hmm Hatty is Buddhist now with the holy city as well. I don't know why she wasn't Buddhist before since the religion had been founded already when I met her.

2640BC (9) - Berlin finishes another warrior. Start on another warrior. I have warrior in 4 and growth in 4. So after the warrior is done we can build a settler. I send the warrior NW to check for barbs by the stone where our second city is going to go. Oh I forgot to check the map for copper when we discovered bronze working. Well there wasn't any. But I just found some in the desert north of Berlin not too far from the horses.

2600 BC (10) - The worker starts building a camp on the ivory. Doh, our northern scout ends next to a lion. He's on a hill though and gets 100% bonus against animals so cross your fingers.

Ok so we have archery in 3 turns. We have our warrior and growth to 4 in three turns. We should build a settler next. Send the new warrior to the NW with the other warrior.

Here's a picture of our surrounding areas and where I think our cities should go:

MM8_city_locs.JPG


Stone city - This should be our first city and hopefully build the pyramids there. That will be a strong city with the rice, stone, plains and hills obviously.

Great production city - This should be our second city and also one of our three culture cities. It has 2 spices by it which are bonus food. It has 4 grassland hills once you clear the jungle off them and 2 plains hills. It also has 2 plains forest tiles. It will be great production. Also the big body of water to the left of it is a lake so it has 2 food tiles even without a lighthouse.

Great leader city - This is where we will generate tons of great artists. It has 4 flood plains tiles, banana tile, and after clearing the jungle will have a lot of grasslands that can be irrigated.

Marble city - This would be a high production city but it's lacking in food until we can get irrigation up there. The sheep will help, though.

City here - A good solid city. We can either use this as our third culture city or use Berlin. I'm inclined to use Berlin just because Berlin will have a head start already. If not for that this city would probably be slightly better.

Later city - This is to pick up the horses and copper. It will also grab the silver with 2 expansions.

There might be a good city spot SW of Stone City as well but we haven't explored there yet.

City here too eventually. This is just a filler city next to our capital. We can make it a high commerce city to help keep up in science. I would say low priority on settling this one as the AI is not likely to settle that close to our capital so we won't lose the spot


mark1031
Shillen
Nerovats-> up
grahamiam-> on deck
Rince
jameson

edit: I know I wrote a lot. I won't write as much in later turns. I just think the early game is an important time when important decisions are made and it will help us all learn the game better if people explain the decisions they make in detail.
 
pre-turn
looking good
2560BC
moving
IBT lion loses to warrrior
2520BC
let warrior heal, explore
2480BC
learn archery set science to writing to be able to research alphabet next to trade techs.
Berlin warrior->settler
get map from hut
2440BC
worker to hill
2320BC
get 40 gold from hut
2280BC
scout ends up next to bear and barb
IBT, loose the scout
2000BC
positioned 2 warriors to keep path to 1th suggested city site out of the fog.
No screenie as nothing new to see really.

View attachment 102333
 
Took a quick look at the new save. I guess there wasn't much to do during your turn with the settler going. The worker was supposed to chop before mining, though. With mining and removing forest at the same time the settler will be done before the shields get added to Berlin. Not a big deal, though. We can use it to get an instant archer I guess and start on another settler right away or whatever grahamiam decides.

Also, did you remove the city labels I had or do they not get stored with the save file? Kind of sucks if they don't get stored. Anyway with the further exploring it seems the horse town should be moved a bit more west (to the other horses) where it can grab the rice and copper as well within its radius. There's another nice spot on the coast up there with cows, game and whale also. And I didn't realize Egypt was so close. So we need to grab that "great production city" with our second settler pretty quickly.
 
Just for clarification, are we going for the stone or the production city first ?

Also, should we try for Stonehenge and the very useful free Obelisks or just spam settlers until we've got our empire up and running ? (I'm leaning towards the latter here myself - I'm not at all sure we can get Stonehenge now).
 
looks like I'm up. got it, will play and post tonight. I am against "spamming settlers" till we have some more infrastructure. Perhaps 3 or 4 cities by 1000 BC is practical, and they should be going for the key resources I believe, so I'm with Shillen in going for the stone. steady expansion rather than fast seems best.

@shillen: the text and drawings on the map do not get saved.
 
Preflight check: Ivory is camped but not connected. Settler due in 2T as well as the mine. 4 civ’s known (Persia, Egypt, Rome, and LoueyFrance)

I now fully understand the problem with the chop. We will have 30 hammers in the bucket when the current settler is done, and we’re doing 11f/spt. So, I think I’ll put the f/s towards the next settler, then switch to an archer for defense/growth (we can grow 1 more pop).

T1: 2160BC Find Copper due W (S of the stone). Interesting, the game seems to show that the workers will be done in 2T on turn 2200BC, but the mine is now complete and the extra 30 shields are in the bucket (119 total), but no settler :hmm:

mm8-2160BC.jpg


T2: 2120BC settler -> settler
Settler moves out, workers move 2T to get the ivory connected

T3: 2080BC switch to archer. Caesar is running around with a lot of archers per the Western scout (see 2 stacks of 2 archers, with one accompanying a settler).

T4: 2040BC Maoist Chinese meet our warrior holding on to the stone area. Since I alt-tabbed to get out and write the above, I now can only pick war???? Take a pic just so the local Firaxans can see it.

mm8-2040BC.jpg


Ok, so I try for a little bit to get the bottom overlay off the darn screen (I even hit the green button but Mao’s mug is still on the stinkin’ screen). I hit esc, click around over the overly, and finally get out of it at 2000BC :lol:


T5: 2000BC Workers have roaded to the river, connecting the ivory. They then move over to connect the pigs

IBT: Lord McCaulty writes that we’re fine.

T6: 1960BC Settler almost in postion

IBT: Defend against barbs in the NW, winning and promoting (take Woodsman I)
Archer -> archer

T7: 1920BC Hamburg founded -> archer

IBT: Persia wants Open Borders but I turn it down for now as we haven’t discussed this yet.

T8: 1880BC nada

T9: 1840BC dancing with barbs
Archer -> settler

T10: 1800BC running from barbs (at least the NE scout is :lol: ). Pigs and ivory are now connected with the capitol. I’m also roading towards the new city (I assumed it would be the cow city so we have a string of cities to support each other), utilizing the river to complete the trade network and to save worker turns. Settler due in 4T and there’s an archer in town to escort it.

MM8-1800BC.jpg
 
Ok, looks like i'm up next. Got the savegame.

I will play it at around 22:00 GMT. Any consensus on where to build the next city? Cow between Berlin and Hamburg? Or the 'great production city'.

Any input appreciated.

Rince
 
Shillen said:
Also, did you remove the city labels I had or do they not get stored with the save file?

Haven´t changed any settings. I would agree with settling on key resources first. What is wise about research. It went for trading possibilities, then suggest to research whatever is farthest up the ladder, should be able to trade for the lower techs later on.
 
The cow city would get started a lot faster as "great production city" needs jungle clearing which we can't even do yet I don't think and we'd probably need more workers to help out. The only concern is Egypt taking the spot away from us since she's not far away from there at all.

As for open borders I think we should definitely sign it with everyone. We're going for a peaceful game right? We also need to get them to spread their religions to us as religion is a huge source of culture in this game. We're not going to win culturally if we don't get some religion in our cities.

On the diplomacy bug, it always does that if you alt tab out on the diplomacy screen. You can use the up and down arrows to move through the choices. So you could have just hit the down arrow and enter to choose peace option. Very annoying bug though.

Good call on putting the forest chop shields into a settler instead of the archer. I love the stored production in civ4.
 
worker is roading to the cow area. therefore, if we settle at the cow, all three cities will quickly benefit from the pigs + cows (health) as well as the ivory (happy). for that reason, i believe the cow is the way to go. great production city should be next, as it'll seal off the S pretty good so I wouldn't mind building another settler right away. However, after that, we'll need some time to get our empire up to snuff with improvements and military as the AI has a lot of archers running around.
 
Wow looks like we have some great lands. I think we should spam settlers a bit and grab land aggressively. There is a penalty for this but if we also put up lots of cottages on the river tiles we should be able to handle it. Don;t forget we are cultural so we expand and will out culture the nearest AIs. Don't be afraid to be aggressive and backfill but then get up military fast. Forrest chops are very powerful I would use them until health=happy (you get health from forest).
 
Ok, here are my turns. Please bear in mind that i only played one CIV IV game so far and that this is my first SG.

1760 BC: Not much happened, scouts are exploring and the workers are constructing the road to cow city

1720 BC: Barbarians approach Berlin from the east and the north. No panic since Berlin is well defended (2 Archers, 1 Warrior).

1680 BC: Barbarians to the east of Berlin seem to have founded a camp! Sending an archer to investigate. Barbarians to the north disappeared.

sg1.jpg


1640 BC: Settler completed in Berlin -> build an Archer before the next Settler in view of the Barbarian threat. Settler is moving towards cow spot, escorted by the second archer of Berlin. Meanwhile to the far west our scout meets barbarian warriors.

1600 BC: The barbarians attacks our scout and we loose!

1560 BC: Munich (aka Cow City) is founded! Setting production to another Archer.

sg2.jpg


Meanwhile our archer reaches the barbarian camp, Kassite. And man, it's well defended! A total of three archers are in there. No way to kill them at the moment.

sg3.jpg


I also just realised that chopping down a forest for the archer in Berlin is not a good idea. Change production to worker instead. He's due in 3 turns.

1520 BC: Our 3 cities are now connected by roads and rivers! We have a nice territory now.

sg4.jpg


I move the archer away from the barbarian town but keep him on a nearby hill to watch the situation. This move already proves useful since we spot another barbarian warrior possibly approaching berlin.

1480 BC: Barbarians turn away from Berlin. Worker now building a pasture for the cows.

1440 BC: Second worker built in Berlin, resuming archer. Scout to the far north meets barbarian archer.

1400 BC: Archer in Berlin -> Settler. Scout to the north evades the barbarians. New worker set to Hamburg for mining.

The french seem to have founded a city in the middle of nowhere!

sg5.jpg


Outlook: Alphabet in 8 turns, Settler in 7. Our army consists of 1 scout, 4 warriors and 3 archers.

Phew, 10 turns sounds like nothing but it's quite a bit of work! I'm tired, have to go to bed now.

Greetings,

Rince

View attachment 102465
 
Got it ( just before heading to bed, so it'll be somewhere from 12-24 hours before I play).

Hazy first thoughts:
Probably best to just ignore the barbs and keep settling the better sites, or should we slot in some more workers first ? And do we have any particular research goal ?

I'm inclined to pick up pottery for granaries first if we don't have it yet. Suggestions welcome,.
 
I see we haven't opened borders still. We need them open. Especially with Egypt since she has a religion she can spread to us. Having good relations with the AI so they're willing to trade techs and help you out in wars is huge. They're also a lot less likely to declare war on us.

I hope we get alphabet first and can get a lot of the earlier techs for it. We could really use agriculture, pottery, fishing, and iron working. The religious techs will be important eventually too once we have a religion. Make sure when you learn alphabet you check the relations each AI has to each other. You're almost guaranteed to piss a civ off (or multiple civs) the very first trade you make. They don't like when you trade with civs that they don't like (it's usually a -4 penalty!). Make sure you're pissing off the fewest civs possible while getting the most techs possible.

Leave the barbarian town alone. They're freaking hard to take with archers in them. We'd need swordsmen at the least and probably more than 2 of them. It's really a waste of time. We will have to get rid of it eventually but for now just let it sit down there. From my experience they'll build like one archer every 20+ turns and send it at us. No big deal. Where they built the city is actually just as good if not better than where I showed for a great leader city. I didn't see that other banana over there. Two grassland bananas + grassland rice and a lot of other grassland. That's awesome. Add national epic and we can be pulling in close to 100 great leader points per turn fairly early in the game. Much higher when we get to biology late game.

We need another worker badly with 3 cities now. After this next settler we really need to take a break from settling as our economy is going to be in bad shape. We also really need to get some libraries and granaries built (once we trade for pottery). Hamburg needs to start on pyramids very soon, if not right after the archer if we want to get them. The marble will have to be hooked up of course and farming the rice and mining the gold hill will be important also.
 
Went and played before going to work :)

Inherited turn: Do nothing, look at the techs. We need both agriculture and pottery

1360 BC (1) Fortify archer as a lookout, a barb appears north of Hamburg. Scout locates furs in the icy peninsula to the North.

1320 BC (2) Worker starts mine on the gold near Hamburg since we can't farm the rice until agriculture or work the stone until masonry.

interturn: Hamburg archer defends against barb, barb archer kills scout.

1280 BC (3) Worker connects Berlin to Munich by road for strategic reasons

1240 BC (4) Waste worker turns by right-clicking on terrain I want information on :rolleyes:

1200 BC (5) Munich builds archer, starts another. I want it slightly bigger before I halt its growth fo 12 turns building a worker which at this point cannot accomplish much yet due to lack of techs. Ilost another worker turn since the automove wasn't turned off by clicking on the worker again.

1160 BC (6) Gold mine finishes, I cannot road it since a barb archer is coming

(it) the barb archer moves as if to pillage it instead of approaching Hamburg

1120 BC (7) Alphabet comes in, set to agriculture for now.

IT Archer defeats Barb archer on defense and promotes ( I choose the generic strength

upgrade)

1080 BC (8) Remember to do the tech trades:

Writing to Hatshepsut for agriculture (a good trade for her, but on the bright side, it makes the next trade possible)
Alphabet to Cyrus for Fishing, Animal Husbandry and masonry. (She hates Louis by the way)
Animal Husbandry to the Sun King for Mysticism ( he was the only one who would trade it)

I should have kept a better log since we also picked up iron working and are all caught up in tech with the known civs.

Sign open borders with everyone except Louis as he's not quite as powerful as Hatty and she hates him (and is much prettier :D ).

Research set to pottery for cottages and granaries.

1040 BC (9) Working....

1000 BC (10) Cologne founded (our 'great production city') Munich worker goes to connect plains iron. Both Hamburg and Berlin are almost done with a worker, we have Stonehenge and the Pyramids available to build. Munich has one turn into a library, given that it's food poor probably better to swap it to a granary. We certainlly cannot afford another city right now since we are at 40g and running -9gpt.

accidentally pressed enter at the end, so it's 975 BC now.

the save

And a pic of our empire:

mm8_empire.JPG
 
Got it. I'm sot so sure anymore about culture as we should have gotten a religion for that but my understanding of religion was limited at the start of this game. We could still hopefully get one of the later religions and if we get connected to Hattie hopefully Budd will spread. Will see about getting some wonders and maybe expanding a bit and start to specialize our cities. It would be nice to get that marble up north and we need a FP city to churn our GP.
 
975: Switch Munich to Pyramids as the stone will be hooked soon and it doesn’t need a library.

950: Someone built stonhenge

925: Oh Oh. Barbs appear near Hamburg. Move archer out to protect the gold hill.

900: Hamburg worker->archer

875: Our brave archer beats a barb archer and warrior. He was fortified 1 turn and defending on hill across a river.

850: Poly in. Alpha -> Louis for Priesthood, Monotheism, and Sailing. This was a good deal. I don’t see the alliances shaking out yet and I would like to get us a religion. Set research to Theology to find Jesus.

825: zzz

800: zzz

775: Hamburg Archer-> granary

750-700: Workers work. I am chopping 2 forests by Munich to help with the pyramids and to get some growth and $$. There is a library building in the capitol. Once it finishes I would switch to high commerce and spit out another settler. I am building some cottages.


Shillen-> Up
Nerovats-> On deck
 
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